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Implement Alley Discussion Forum

JD 1209 Swather Info Needed

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txblu

11-08-2004 05:49:01

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Back to my age old problem of rubbernecking while driving down contry roads.

This time it's a swather (mower conditioner). It's a newer model than my last as it has the hydraulic cylinder to move the tongue in and out.

Guy is hard on $1500. Rollers have no missing rubber, drive belt, chains and pulleys, are tight, cutter bar is rusted (as usual) and probably will need replacing. Rear tires are 1 good 1 maypop, shaft on tongue hyd cylinder has rust spots on it the size of a match head.

Can spin it by hand and everything is smooth and quiet.

Comments appreciated.

Question: It has a single hyd line for lifting and a dual for tongue positioning. I know what to expect with the dual, but what happens when you put a single hyd line on a JD closed center bidirectional spool? I know when you push it raises due to fluid going into the cylinder. What I don't understand is HOW DO YOU GET IT DOWN?

Thanks,

Mark

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Leland

11-09-2004 15:49:21

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Re: JD 1209 Swather Info Needed in reply to txblu, 11-08-2004 05:49:01

TX used one on thousands of acres thru the years,always done a fine job no matter what was pulling it. with a 1070 case and sharp sycle I could cut in heavy alfala in 9th gear. only thing I did not like was removing blade had to pull out with p-up. And make sure you grease sycle pivot every day this little part is pricey.

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T213R

11-08-2004 15:26:20

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Re: JD 1209 Swather Info Needed in reply to txblu, 11-08-2004 05:49:01

What you are discribing is exactly what I have. The single acting lift works just fine on any of my John Deeres---3020, 4020, 2440, and there is no problem whatsoever. The price doesn't sound too bad to me either. Your 1209 is a late production model if that single acting lift cylinder is a single cylinder. The earliest 1209s had two of them, one on each side. A later 1209 is pretty much the same thing as a 1219. Look for the non-clog cutterbar gaurds also!

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David in MD

11-08-2004 12:26:49

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Re: JD 1209 Swather Info Needed in reply to txblu, 11-08-2004 05:49:01

All I know is that I run my 1209 with the single acting lift cylinder on a 4230 or 2030 and it never failed to go up or down. I plug it into either remote, either side, whichever isn't leaking at the moment. These green haybines are very much under appreciated and sell cheaper than the overly priced/complicated red and yellow competitors. $2500 will get you a decent 1219 from a dealer. The 1219 has 5 bar reel which feeds better, a different design behind the cutter bar which doesn't accumulate as much dirt, and extra grooves in the conditioning rolls for improved conditioning. I've seen 1209 advertised at $1200 but couldn't tell you the condition. In addition to good conditioning rolls I'd look for bolt on knife sections which is important if you are in a stoney area. The conversion costs $500 for a knife and high arch hold down hardware. I paid $850 for my well weathered 1209 and upgraded the knife and replaced a few hydraulic hoses. When much more of the rubber comes off of the rolls I'll be looking for another machine as they aren't worth replacing the rolls.

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Jerry D in NC

11-08-2004 12:07:16

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Re: JD 1209 Swather Info Needed in reply to txblu, 11-08-2004 05:49:01

Oh well I drive a PowerStroke in the old Ford but I think I have a bit of experience on this one. I have a 1207 that is the 7 ft little brother of the one you have. Gave $400 for it with no history and it was froze tight so it was a gamble. I have cut for the last 3 years with it and the Ford 2000 as fast as I can stand to sit in the seat. Mows like a dream. If it needs a new sickle the go to sickleworks.com. They are significantly less expensive than JD and the quality has been fine for me. I don't understand the comment about getting knives for it below, these MoCos use the same knife that fits Ford mowers. I got the hold downs and new wear plates with my new sickle and converted to bolt on for less than $170 a couple of years ago and that included a box of 25 extra knives.

Point of caution - brackets that hold the main gearbox on top have all broken on mine and had to be rewelded and re-enforced. Tongue broke and had to be welded too. For the price mine has done a fine job. Rollers are starting to have problems but I have stopped all tears with a two part epoxy that will stick to rubber and steel. Slide it under the edge and get it inside and it has held for me without further tears. Those rollers are about $1100 each if my memory serves so when they are toast it becomes spare parts..... But I would buy another one in a heartbeat..

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buickanddeere

11-08-2004 11:38:03

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Re: JD 1209 Swather Info Needed in reply to txblu, 11-08-2004 05:49:01

Seen your note over on the other group but the guys have already covered the topic better than I could. We have used the 1219 ( I think) on both the 2355 and 720 two cylinder low pressure open center system without problems. Sections and guards are tougher to get at than on the old 800 swather with the draper platform.

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txblu..gonna get the $$

11-08-2004 10:12:38

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Re: JD 1209 Swather Info Needed in reply to txblu, 11-08-2004 05:49:01

Ok buddies. Since you ignored the price, it must be reasonable and you have convinced me that I can hook her right up to my 4010, so it's off to get the necessary funding.

What really gripes me about this deal is it isn't a deal at all. I started down on the price and he went up. I told him he was going the wrong way but he wouldn't listen.

Sounded like one of those uppety guys, you know the ones with the Power Stroke Diesels. Har. Har.

Thanks again,

Mark

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Bob

11-08-2004 06:14:19

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Re: JD 1209 Swather Info Needed in reply to txblu, 11-08-2004 05:49:01

Plug the lift hose into your Deere and you're good to go. It will work just fine, as that is how it's designed.

If you plugging it into an older "BRAND X" tractor with OPEN CENTER hydraulics, it would work also, but the tractor hydraulics would have to bypass when you were lowering the conditioner.

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txblu

11-08-2004 06:39:03

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Re: JD 1209 Swather Info Needed in reply to Bob, 11-08-2004 06:14:19

Thanks, Bob.

So, I open the lift valve, filling the cylinder with fluid and the swather raises. Not a problem.

Now I want gravity to push the fluid out so it will drop. What happens? What do I move and where does the fluid go, or how does it get to where it's supposed to be going?

Thanks,

Mark

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Bob

11-08-2004 06:45:34

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Re: JD 1209 Swather Info Needed in reply to txblu, 11-08-2004 06:39:03

You move the lift lever to the position opposite "lift". The oil will flow back into the tractor, and the conditioner will lower. The hydraulic pressure caused by the conditioner's weight on the hydraulic cylinders pushes the oil back into the tractor hydraulic return system.

Just hook it up to one coupler of a pair on your tractor, and leave the dust plug in the other coupler. It will work. (I have a Deere MOCO hooked to a 4020, as I just described.)

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txblu

11-08-2004 07:43:44

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Re: JD 1209 Swather Info Needed in reply to Bob, 11-08-2004 06:45:34

Ok buddy, thanks,

Mark

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paul

11-08-2004 08:27:40

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Re: JD 1209 Swather Info Needed in reply to txblu, 11-08-2004 07:43:44

Some models of some brand of tractors have valves you can adjust to make the dual control work on a single-acting. You may wish to carefully look through the hyd section of the manual for that. On open center hyd, the oil just bypasses, which does put a bit of strain on the hyd, but works fine. I'm not familiar with closed center, but sounds like it works the same...

--->Paul

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Bob

11-08-2004 08:36:57

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Re: JD 1209 Swather Info Needed in reply to paul, 11-08-2004 08:27:40

It is a Deere MOCO used with a Deere tractor. They are designed to work together as-is.

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Tim(nj)

11-08-2004 09:09:05

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NOT NECESSARILY! in reply to Bob, 11-08-2004 08:36:57

I have a 4430. For a tractor S/N 44905 and above, the manual states that to use a single-acting line, always plug into the left receptacle (the one without the notch) on the right hand coupler, as single acting cylinders will not retract on other couplers. For tractors below 44905, a manual bypass valve is located on the left side of the transmission that must be opened five turns to use a single-acting cylinder. Check the tractor manual first.

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Bob

11-08-2004 09:24:41

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Re: NOT NECESSARILY! in reply to Tim(nj), 11-08-2004 09:09:05

Tim, as I previously posted, that most likely won't be a problem with the HEAVY MOCO, but could be an issue with a lightly-loaded single acting cylinder on another application.

The problem is that the return oil from the SCV (hydraulic valve) is ADDED to the flow from the transmission pump, forward to the cooler and main pump, so there is pressure in the return system, that can affect implements with lightly-loaded single acting cylinders, but the return oil from the platform lift on that MOCO is gonna be WAY ABOVE return/charge system pressure, so it's not an issue here, with this particular piece of equipment.

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paul

11-08-2004 09:07:19

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Re: JD 1209 Swather Info Needed in reply to Bob, 11-08-2004 08:36:57

Generally, yes. I've run into enough exceptions to that rule..... ;)

--->Paul

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Bob

11-08-2004 09:15:11

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Re: JD 1209 Swather Info Needed in reply to paul, 11-08-2004 09:07:19

Yes, Paul, I've seen exceptions, too, but I didn't want to complicate the issue, since the HEAVY conditioner will have enough pressure from it's weight to work just fine with the Deere closed-center hydraulic-return-to-the-main-pump system.

One notable exception is an IH planter hooked to a closed-center Deere on which the markers will not fall when the planter is lowered to start a round, because of the Deere system's hydraulic back pressure. Some of the Deere's have a valve hidden under a hex cap that you need to turn with a screwdriver once the cap is removed to work with such equipment, but when done with that piece of equipment, you return the valve to it's original position, as it affects system return oil flow to the pump. I didn't mention any of that, as he won't need to do that when using the MOCO.

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paul

11-08-2004 11:33:27

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Re: JD 1209 Swather Info Needed in reply to Bob, 11-08-2004 09:15:11

Here in Minnesota when it gets to be cold, like 15 or 20 degrees, it does become an issue with even moderate loads. Trying to let my dump trailer down takes _forever_ for example. :)

Yes you were right, on this piece of equipment, it will work just fine.

What sometimes happens is people read this thread, and apply it to their equipment. Actually happens a lot. My comments were intended as 'fruther info for other applications' and I guess I didn't label it as such. Didn't mean to say any of your info was wrong. :)

--->Paul

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Bob

11-08-2004 12:24:44

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Re: JD 1209 Swather Info Needed in reply to paul, 11-08-2004 11:33:27

Paul,

I wasn't criticizing you, either! Sometimes it's a tough decision whether to stick 100% to the question that was asked, or expand into other areas and complicate the issue, while addressing other issues!!

I SURE WISH you wouldn't have brought up the COLD, though! I'm in northern ND, and I don't think the cold weather is too far off!

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paul

11-09-2004 15:54:03

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Re: JD 1209 Swather Info Needed in reply to Bob, 11-08-2004 12:24:44

--->Paul

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