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Soil Conditioning

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Tommy D.

10-15-1999 11:28:36




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(Hope it is ok to ask this on this board)
I have heard so many methods of soil conditioning lately, I am pretty confused. The story:

I have about 1 1/2 acres I garden. It was a corn field from the 1930's until about 1975, when planting here ceased and it was bush-hogged once a year. Last fall, I turned it under and disc'ed it. This spring, I turned and disc'ed again, and planted veggies, such as corn, watermelons, cantelopes, beans, etc. The harvest was OK, but I feel it could get better. Soil has a lot of clay. Gardening now pretty much over, I disc'ed and asked some folks what to plant as ground cover. I got (among others) the following advice:
1. Field Peas - The add nitrogen
2. Turnips, Collards, Lettuce, and Spinach broadcast spread. This guy says peas do not add nitrogen.
3. Clover & winter rye. Adds organic material for next spring.
4. Nothing, but 2-3-4 commercial fertilizer.

I would like some advice, not only as to what to plant now, but what to do for long term soil conditioning. I thought about chicken litter/manure or horse manure, but folks tell me it adds too many weeds. (Can weeds survive the winter?) My father-in-law runs a sawmill, so I have endless supply of bark and sawdust. How would this affect the soil?
Lastly, I have heard conflicting views on soil testing. The Walmart kits aren't very accurate. Should I have the County Extension Service test the soil?

All advice is most welcomed.

Tommy Duvall
Dalton, Ga
(NW Ga., about 90 miles north of Atlanta, and 30 miles south of Chattanooga, Tn.)

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paul

10-20-1999 22:18:59




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 Re: Soil Conditioning in reply to Tommy D., 10-15-1999 11:28:36  
Wood shavings will add organic material which is good, but likely will mess up your soil balance for a while, I would composte it with the manure for a year, lessen the weed seeds & make the sawdust a much, much better deal. This is good idea, I'd really try this. For next year, probably go with the commercial fertilizer, following the lab results you get from your extention agent. You will need to supply them a soil sample, last year's crop, and what you intend to plant next year. That can become a handful if you are raising many truck crops on a small acrage.

Any legume can fix nitrogen, some better than others. Peas, alfalfa, beans, soybeans, clover, etc. are all in this family. Up here in MN clover is used for a plowdown, but our seasons are too short to harvest a crop & then plant something. I hear peas are a good plowdown in warmer climates.

Oh, and YES, weeds survive real well up here in MN over winter. Manure carries in new weeds, and fertilizes the weeds you had making them grow much better. It's still worth it to help your clay soils, but composting it first would really help for your use.

--->Paul

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JJ

10-17-1999 06:50:07




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 Re: Soil Conditioning in reply to Tommy D., 10-15-1999 11:28:36  
A real soil sample is the only way to be sure about the nutrient needs and ph of the soil. Your county extension agent should be able to help with it.
Every one was right on this one. Each bit of info you have listed is good in it's own way. Since the soil has clay, anything like the sawdust or bark will add organic matter, as will chicken litter or barn manure. The peas do add nitrogen, and the winter rye would make a good green manure for next spring.
The weeds are gonna keep coming back every year, but they do die back in the winter. Chicken litter does'nt produce weeds, it will however make the ones you have worse. Barn manure will sometimes produce weeds because some weed's seed don't digest while going through the animal.
The weed problem should get a little better each year as you go along. Good luck- JJ

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Indy

10-16-1999 06:28:35




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 Re: Soil Conditioning in reply to Tommy D., 10-15-1999 11:28:36  
I would get a soil test before I would do anything.You can buy cheap kits at places like
home depot but they do not give you much detail.
They only check phoporus,nitrogen,potassium and pH.They are probally the most important but the
trace minerals are important as well.Your county
extention agent can tell you were to get a laboratory test. I would compost the bark and saw dust with
horse manure plus with green materials.This kills
weed seeds.You can also add lime to the compost to
keep pH in the 6.5 range with is what most plants like.Fresh bark can raise the ph.Raw manure should
not be put on if you will have any crops ready in
less than 120 days because of the possibility of ecoli on veggies eaten raw. At my local landfill they compost leaves etc
and sell it $10 a truck load.A couple times a year
it is free.Compost not only supplies nutriants but
it improves soil quality.It has done wonders for
my clay soil.

After you amend your soil you should cover it with a good layer of straw then compost the straw next spring.

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Indy

10-16-1999 06:26:56




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 Re: Soil Conditioning in reply to Tommy D., 10-15-1999 11:28:36  
I would get a soil test before I would do anything.You can buy cheap kits at places like
home depot but they do not give you much detail.
They only check phoporus,nitrogen,potassium and pH.They are probally the most important but the
trace minerals are important as well.Your county
extention agent can tell you were to get a laboratory test. I would compost the bark and saw dust with
horse manure plus with green materials.This kills
weed seeds.You can also add lime to the compost to
keep pH in the 6.5 range with is what most plants like.Fresh bark can raise the ph.Raw manure should
not be put on if you will have any crops ready in
less than 120 days because of the possibility of ecoli on veggies eaten raw. At my local landfill they compost leaves etc
and sell it $10 a truck load.A couple times a year
it is free.Compost not only supplies nutriants but
it improves soil quality.It has done wonders for
my clay soil.

After you amend your soil you should cover it with a good layer of straw then compost the straw next spring.

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Tim(nj)

10-15-1999 20:07:38




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 Re: Soil Conditioning in reply to Tommy D., 10-15-1999 11:28:36  
Check your pH, but be careful when liming. If you were planting all one type of crop on that ground, you could adjust your pH to, let's say, 7.0 over the whole field for soybeans. However, with a variety of vegetables, you have to know what is going to be planted where and when, because some vegetables may like 5.5 for pH, some may like 8.0, and others are in between. Add organic matter to the soil, it will do wonders. Chicken litter probably will have the least amount of weed seeds in it, horse manure the most. I've composted horse manure first and then applied it to my pumpkin patch. Less seeds that way. On the soybean fields, it doesn't matter, the Roundup gets the weeds. The nursery next to me plants winter rye, plows it in, then plants sudax (an annual grass related to sorghum) in late spring, and plows under in the fall, followed by rye again, before planting in new stock. Watch wood shavings/bark, when it starts to decompose, it can lower pH.

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Tim(nj)

10-15-1999 20:06:13




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 Re: Soil Conditioning in reply to Tommy D., 10-15-1999 11:28:36  
Check your pH, but be careful when liming. If you were planting all one type of crop on that ground, you could adjust your pH to, let's say, 7.0 over the whole field for soybeans. However, with a variety of vegetables, you have to know what is going to be planted where and when, because some vegetables may like 5.5 for pH, some may like 8.0, and others are in between. Add organic matter to the soil, it will do wonders. Chicken litter probably will have the least amount of weed seeds in it, horse manure the most. I've composted horse manure first and then applied it to my pumpkin patch. Less seeds that way. On the soybean fields, it doesn't matter, the Roundup gets the weeds. The nursery next to me plants winter rye, plows it in, then plants sudax (an annual grass related to sorghum) in late spring, and plows under in the fall, followed by rye again, before planting in new stock. Watch wood shavings/bark, when it starts to decompose, it can lower pH.

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hay

10-15-1999 15:05:47




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 Re: Soil Conditioning in reply to Tommy D., 10-15-1999 11:28:36  
like the others said, do a soil test before you fertlize. check with your county ag agent, he can help you with your problem. lots of folks here in se texas plant winter cover crops like winter rye grass or oats or other winter hardy crops to hold down erosion and provide organic material to disk in.



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SkwaraM

10-15-1999 14:10:46




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 Re: Soil Conditioning in reply to Tommy D., 10-15-1999 11:28:36  
Tom, It is best that you do contact your local ag extension office. They are the experts. However, I find that it is best to rotate what you plant in each area every year, also put a good layer of organic material in the garden. My suggestion is to use the bark and spread it to about 1" thick, then plow it into the soil very well. No need to do this every year, as also you do not want to attract such bugs and animals such as termites. I like to plant a cover crop of rye. It is also a good idea to let your field "rest" in stages. I plant soy beans when I let my field rest.

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bbott

10-15-1999 12:43:55




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 Re: Soil Conditioning in reply to Tommy D., 10-15-1999 11:28:36  
Get in touch with your county ag agent.

This is what they get your tax dollars for and
they should be able to help you out.

Depending on your soil pH and mineral balance,
any of the advice could be the right stuff, or
none at all.



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