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Implement Alley Discussion Forum

Bales per min revisited

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Errin OH

09-27-2004 11:43:15




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For the novice hay maker
I had posted some time back about the capacity of an old ford baler (model 250 - I4-80). The ad brochure from the 50's stated 7 ton an hour (~4 bales a min). This weekend I was able to experiment a little on 8 acres of grass/clover and thought I share a few observations. Target was 4 bales per min / a bale every 16 plunger strokes. I set up four different sized windrows 1, 2, 3, 4 rake widths. I choose four ground speeds (gear 2, 3, 4, 5th). Set the engine RPM to ~1800 RPM to get the baler at 66 strokes per min.

Equipment
AC D-19
JD1209 mower
Kuhn 4 basket tedder
JD 894 roller bar rake
Ford baler

The results
In windrow 1 it took roughly 27-32 plunger strokes to make a bale in 3rd gear. I up the ground speed (4th) and could make a bale in 22-25 but had some feeding issues. In 5th it would do 16-19 but had feed problems. In windrow 2 it took roughly 21-25 plunger strokes to make a bale in 3rd gear. Again I up the ground speed (4th) and could make a bale in 16-19 but in heaver windrows had issues. In 5th it would not feed and plug up. In windrow 3 it took roughly 16-19 plunger strokes to make a bale in 3rd gear. In 4th it would do 14-16 but that's if it would feed and not plug up. Didn't bother to try 5th. In windrow 4 I did one in 12 plunger strokes, more like 14-16, but was starting to have other issues in 3rd. So I dropped to 2nd (incredibly slow) and was making a bale in 18-20 strokes. However did have some issues and had to watch it real close. Forget 4 and 5 at this size.

Conclusions
Third gear, 66 plunger strokes, and a windrow of three rake widths (~36-42" wide x ~15-20" tall) produced the desired rate (~16 plunger strokes per bale). On the lighter end of the scale I could get the same results in 4th. Compounding the ground speed issue was the tractor. Gear pattern has you at 3-5th or 4-6th. To get from 3rd to 4th you have to depress the clutch and thus the baler stops. So I wasn't able to check the results with switching between 3-4th, depending on windrow, which would most likely be optimal for me. Now I was able to make fairly consistence windrow, but where it wasn't, (36x15 vs 42x20) higher grounds speed (3rd to 5th) didn't fix it. Why? So I did a little more experimenting. It became apparent that the issue wasn't the feeder/plunger, it was picking it up off the ground. ***The pickup tines rotate at a set speed, they need to be matched (close) to the ground speed***. My case - ~3-4th gear 1800RPM is a good operating range. Ground speed to slow and the crop is pulled back and up with less actually picked up. This gives it a shattering (or pulling apart) effect. Smaller windrows compound this effect, larger windrows lessen the effect. But its still there and, as windrow size changes, it will appear as intermittent baler problems. The lesser amount of crop (in my case) tends to bunch up in front of the auger, thus isn't feeding it to the plunger, until enough is present for the auger to move it across the chamber. Resulting in wads being feed to the plunger causing erotic behavior. Ground speed to fast and the crop is pushed forward (from under the pickup as the tines come around) and up, with to much picked up. This causes wads of hay to accumulate (bunch up) in front of (on) the baler pickup. Larger windrows compound this effect, smaller windrow lessen the effect. But, again, its still there. As windrow size changes, you will appear to have intermittent problems. My case, when fed to the auger it may or may not be able to move it and become clogged itself. If it does pass it, the results tend to be various sized bales, slip clutches kicking in, tractor surging, etc... When set right (ground speed/baler tines) it should be flowing. Literally looks like the hay is water flowing up off the ground and into the pickup and across the chamber. Not pushing or pulling the hay. A nice flow that is maintainable over varing windrow size.

And yes I did manage to get to the spec of 7 ton an hour (4 bale a minute).

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Leland

09-28-2004 06:43:31




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 Re: Bales per min revisited in reply to Errin OH, 09-27-2004 11:43:15  
One day to prove a point boss put a 1070 case in 9th gear with a 336 deere baler 2 of us on rack could not keep up with it. I don't belive you could plug that baler double rows of 1st cutting alfala about 3/4 mile long and it was a wild ride but hay stayed on wagon.



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Tim(nj)

09-28-2004 13:17:03




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 Re: Bales per min revisited in reply to Leland, 09-28-2004 06:43:31  
Oh, you can plug a 336, trust me . . . . Long rye straw.



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Leland

09-28-2004 14:17:13




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 Re: Bales per min revisited in reply to Tim(nj), 09-28-2004 13:17:03  
I belive his point was the baler could work faster than us.



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Leland

09-28-2004 14:16:57




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 Re: Bales per min revisited in reply to Tim(nj), 09-28-2004 13:17:03  
I belive his point was the baler could work faster than us.



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Tim(nj)

09-28-2004 17:14:57




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 Re: Bales per min revisited in reply to Leland, 09-28-2004 14:16:57  
I figured out your point Leland, but I wasn"t referring to that. You said you didn"t think a 336 could be plugged, and my point was that it can.



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Leland

09-29-2004 20:46:12




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 Re: Bales per min revisited in reply to Tim(nj), 09-28-2004 17:14:57  
I now see your point,but that had to be some real heavy stuff to plug it. I have not seen many of the newer balers plug easy. the day I was talking about 1st cutting alfala lots of dock and tall wide double windrows awsome baler those 336s are after using a #12 massey for years.



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Leland

09-29-2004 20:46:02




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 Re: Bales per min revisited in reply to Tim(nj), 09-28-2004 17:14:57  
I now see your point,but that had to be some real heavy stuff to plug it. I have not seen many of the newer balers plug easy. the day I was talking about 1st cutting alfala lots of dock and tall wide double windrows awsome baler those 336s are after using a #12 massey for years.



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HaySam

09-28-2004 06:05:26




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 Re: Bales per min revisited in reply to Errin OH, 09-27-2004 11:43:15  
I was feeling kindly frogy one day thought i would see how many bales i could put through my 346 with a 6210 up front. got 10 bales a min



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RayP(MI)

09-27-2004 19:14:34




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 Re: Bales per min revisited in reply to Errin OH, 09-27-2004 11:43:15  
Wellll,, I didn't delve into all the research and data that Errin did, but I think I found the capacity of my tractor/baler combination. The last field I baled this summer was grass hay that was liberally fertilized by the pig farmer down the road, much to the distress of the neighbors, this spring. Hay was so down, thick and tangled that I couldn't begin to cut it with a sicke bar. (Wonder what those new disk mowers would have done.) I attacked it with the only thing I had available - generic bush hog, on a Farmall 200. Hardly a power house! Was all the Farmall wanted in 1st gear. My baler is a NH 268 Hayliner, powered by a '49 John Deere B. Another hardly a powerhouse! Well, I got into the heaviest stuff, Deere in 2nd, full throttle. (Pto probably exceeding 540rpm by some!) Was punching out a bale every 16 to 24 strokes. Deer barking up a storm, baler almost plugging up in the intake area, and the guy on the wagon was having trouble keeping up - almost lost a couple bales under the wagon. Next time, I'm going to be a little scotch on those windrows, or run down a gear. Have used the Farmall on the baler, but know that that'd been way too heavy for it - 1st on the Farmall is about equivalent to 2nd on the Deere, there's nothing lower on the Farmall! To it's credit the baler did a pretty good job of putting out good bales even when pushed. Thanks Errin, you did the research. I was a little sloppy!

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Hugh MacKay

09-27-2004 17:50:11




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 Re: Bales per min revisited in reply to Errin OH, 09-27-2004 11:43:15  
Errin: I take it you were not starved for power.

Good information, you learned one thing, that being how important good raking is for baling. I am a bit curious on the history, and by history I mean owner-user history. How long have you had the baler. I must admit I know little about the Ford baler, they were not very common in my neck of the woods. Does this baler have plunger adjustments allowing you to keep plunger knife close to shear, thus allowing it to work like sissors. We had a NH S-69 at home and it was dad's morning ritual to sharpen plunger knife and adjust so it sheared, rather than pounded the hay in. I would like if you haven't already done so, sharpen and adjust knife according to manual, then try one of your tests again.

Most balers I have been around will easily exceed the manufacturers ratings. It takes good raking and good maintainence. I like your description on the hay flowing looking a bit like water flowing up hill, as that is exactly what a good working balers being fed properly should look like. There probably was one exception on than clause," exceed manufacturers rating", that being the IH 45, the kid on behind just couldn't tye the misses of the knoters fast enough.

You have many more good days baling. From a 62 year old farmer, I like seeing a novice taking these steps. You will master the art of baling.

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Errin OH

09-28-2004 16:06:08




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 Re: Bales per min revisited in reply to Hugh MacKay, 09-27-2004 17:50:11  
Little history - I have used a 14-80 for a couple/three years now. My first one, a 1955 is built a little beefier than the 1958 I am currently running. Difference maybe manufactures. I think one is Long and the other is New Idea or an actual Ford vs. something like Long or NI (??). I got the 58 for $85 as a parts baler late last year. I quickly figured out it was better than that. The plunger had rollers vs. slides, two new bill hooks, better length metering. All I had to do was fix a minor swipe arm problem and tied perfectly. It could use a new set of knives, but they have been sharpen. I set it up to run BT-130 plastic twine. Knotters missed maybe 5-6 bales out of 1400 +/- (more ball change than misses). Even durng the testing it didn't miss a tie and I was just below stall point (slip clutch groweling at me) during a few of those 12-14 stroke bales. I have been extremely happy with it and like I said before, it's so simple it just amazes me. Only having $100 in it doesn't hurt either.

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Sam#3

09-27-2004 17:04:15




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 Re: Bales per min revisited in reply to Errin OH, 09-27-2004 11:43:15  

I thought you were discussing hay baling until I read this line and my train of thought derailed.
"plunger causing erotic behavior."
Now I'm waiting for "the rest of the story."
:)



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Jerry D in NC

09-27-2004 15:49:51




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 Re: Bales per min revisited in reply to Errin OH, 09-27-2004 11:43:15  
Errin,

It has been said here many times that the rake man has one of the most important skill sets. Glad to hear that the Ford baler was holding up better than you had first suggested. Hope you took some pictures.... We need them for the website.



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Roy B

09-27-2004 13:47:52




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 Re: Bales per min revisited in reply to Errin OH, 09-27-2004 11:43:15  
Errin,
Thanks for taking the time to post all that information. I Remember the thread and found it interesting then, and some of the numbers a bit hard to believe. My NH 268 always worked well and did"t seen slow until I used a newer CIH 8520 inline small square baler. Now I see how some of those claims are possible. Thanks again. Roy



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