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Implement Alley Discussion Forum

Newbie with a sickle bar......

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Joe in IN

07-26-2004 06:17:10




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So I am cutting my first hay ever yesterday using a sickle bar mower. I am cutting Alfalfa/Timothy(planted this spring) with a few weeds and crabgrass. I'm sure this is something simple but the hay/weeds seem to collect on the bar closest to the tractor. This is to say the middle to the far end of the sickle cuts great and everything just falls over, the closet part of the bar(1st 12 - 18 inches) everything gets hung up on and then(because it's packed) don't cut and leaves a strip of unmowed grass. What am I doing wrong? Any thoughts?

I am using an International sickle bar with hydraulics.....

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Mguy

07-27-2004 15:24:38




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 Re: Newbie with a sickle bar...... in reply to Joe in IN, 07-26-2004 06:17:10  
Joe, what seems to be the problem is this. The inner shoe right behind your tire is not far enough out to the right to be cutting standing hay. It's trying to cut downed hay and getting gobbed up. If you can possibly do it,remount your mower to trail over to the right 4-6 inches. This will get those guards into standing hay and keep you much happier! Good Luck! Mguy.



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Joe in IN

07-27-2004 06:23:10




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 Re: Newbie with a sickle bar...... in reply to Joe in IN, 07-26-2004 06:17:10  
Printed out everyones comments and took them home. Went to cut the remainder of the field.

Guards and blades checked out ok.

I moved to a higher gear so the speed helped me.

I also drove in a straight line, well maybe not a straight line, but paid more attention to my line from the prior night.

When I stay on line and with higher speed it seemed to cut pretty good. I guess after I rake I'll see exactly how I did.

Thanks every one for their input. It is much appreciated. I'm sure I'll be asking more questions in the future. Thanks for taking the time to answer.....

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Rob

07-26-2004 17:16:11




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 Re: Newbie with a sickle bar...... in reply to Joe in IN, 07-26-2004 06:17:10  
I like to use the 120 year old technology, I run a NH 488 haybine and it will mow when it is raining if needed. I also have a 451 sickle mower that works very well. There is nothing wrong with using a sickle just because other people have went to other type machines.



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ET

07-26-2004 09:46:45




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 Re: Newbie with a sickle bar...... in reply to Joe in IN, 07-26-2004 06:17:10  
What is the condition of the stationary knife on the inner shoe. If its dull or missing the mower will plug like you say. If you run 4 or 5 stub gaurds on the inner end it helps also.



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Hay Dr.

07-26-2004 09:11:50




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 Re: Newbie with a sickle bar...... in reply to Joe in IN, 07-26-2004 06:17:10  
third party image

Quit using sickle bar technology that is 120 years old and look at the CCM Drum mowers that will never clog up.



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Joe in IN

07-26-2004 11:24:08




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 Re: Re: Newbie with a sickle bar...... in reply to Hay Dr., 07-26-2004 09:11:50  
Had I hit the Powerball I might now own a drum mower. I do quite well, but I am a working man and have the wife and kids to think of. This sickle came in a package deal with about 8 or 9 other pieces of obsolete equipment(3010D NF, rotary hoe, 10 ft disc, 4 bottom plow, etc.....). In a few years(hopefully) I will move to a MoCo. After that who knows. For now, I am stuck with the sickle bar. Heck my wife complains about the $500 I spent on a IH 47 baler(great condition mind you). All obsolete but don't have the 15K(or much much more) to bring me current with technology on any of it..... .

Give me the old cheap stuff so I can at least try to bale my own...

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Hay Dr.

07-26-2004 14:41:08




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 Re: Re: Re: Newbie with a sickle bar...... in reply to Joe in IN, 07-26-2004 11:24:08  
Pull your paints on and tell your wife who is the boss. Sickle bar mowers are ok for trimming around but to depend on them for harvesting is a waste of time.



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seems to be

07-26-2004 09:23:20




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 Re: Re: Newbie with a sickle bar...... in reply to Hay Dr., 07-26-2004 09:11:50  
an odd comment--badmouthing "old" technology--on an antique tractor website.

Some of us prefer old technology, for a lot of reasons including cost and the personal pride in doing a good quality job the old way.

Yeah, I could run out and buy all new magical stuff...or heck, I could even move to a condo and buy hay and pay somebody to take care of my animals and save all the trouble altogether.

Just my opinion,

Bkeepr

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Hay Dr.

07-26-2004 11:03:09




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 Re: Re: Re: Newbie with a sickle bar...... in reply to seems to be, 07-26-2004 09:23:20  
The thing for you to do is fight dieses without antibiotics and today's drugs. Live like the American Indians that had average life expectancy of 42 years.



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Let's fight illiteracy!!

07-27-2004 15:17:23




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Newbie with a sickle bar...... in reply to Hay Dr., 07-26-2004 11:03:09  
n/t



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Matt from CT

07-26-2004 11:51:37




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Newbie with a sickle bar...... in reply to Hay Dr., 07-26-2004 11:03:09  
Bad example.

Those American Indians had a life expectancy of 42 years, if that's true, to a combination of exposure to European diseases and displacement to otherwise unwanted lands.

Prior to the Revolutionary war time frame American settlers who survived the first year in the colonies tended to have exceptional long lives even by today's standards.

I was personally amazed when in High School we did a field trip to the cemetery adjacent to school...Woodstock was founded in 1686 and you saw gravestone after gravestone with ages in the 80s and 90s, something much better than Europe or the Indians. That was not atypical in New England (southern colonies faired a bit worse being exposed to diseases like Malaria more often, but still surprisingly performed compared to later decades)

Basically if you didn't die on the journey, didn't die in childbirth, and didn't die as an infant (three factors dramatically pulling down life expectancy stats) you'd enjoy a long life on the frontier relatively free of disease.

The Revolutionary War brought an end to this golden period of disease-free America. With the large movements of soldiers, and soldiers from many isolated towns coming together and going back home regularly diseases common in Europe became just as widespread in the colonies.

It wasn't a technological issue per se that improved health care...so much as a technological solution to a problem other technology had created.

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Sid

07-26-2004 11:38:55




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Newbie with a sickle bar...... in reply to Hay Dr., 07-26-2004 11:03:09  
Why do you have a problem with someone wanting to keep memories alive? I see nothing wrong with making do with what you have instead of spending big bucks. A lot of us here use older equipment for many different reasons but being ignorant as you seem to suggest is not one of them.



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wolfy

07-26-2004 08:02:15




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 Re: Newbie with a sickle bar...... in reply to Joe in IN, 07-26-2004 06:17:10  
Sounds like the tension adjustment for cutter bar float is a little too tight lrtting bar bounce up a little. Cutter bars work better if they drag right along the ground (both ends).



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Dan

07-26-2004 07:49:48




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 Re: Newbie with a sickle bar...... in reply to Joe in IN, 07-26-2004 06:17:10  
I use the 1 1/2 section on the outer end of my sicklebar but have not done it on the inner end. Perhaps that would depend upon the mower. On the inner end of the mower there is usually a special plate the sickle runs against if this is dull or missing it will not cut right. Most mowere I think have some device to push the hay in from the shoe, toward the top. If you don't have that it will tend to hand up. On the outer end you should have a "grass board". When you mow there should be a small, 6" or so, patch between swaths where the grass board pushed the hay over. You run the inner end in that open patch on the next round. With no open patch you will pick up mowed hay on the inside end of the cutter bar and it will plug. Sometimes it is a speed problem, if you can move a little faster the hay flows over the bar instead of laying on it. If the hay, especially grass, is too short or fine it will tend to plug also. Just a few more possibilities.

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Joe in IN

07-26-2004 09:04:42




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 Re: Re: Newbie with a sickle bar...... in reply to Dan, 07-26-2004 07:49:48  
How fast should one go? I have a 3010D. I have been running in 2nd gear at PTO speed(about 2000 RPM). So I am not flying along. Should i move to 3rd and reduce RPM's? How important is it to maintain full PTO speed? 3rd gear seemed a bit fast, but again I am not that experianced so maybe it isn't.....



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Geo in SD

07-26-2004 11:19:35




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 Re: Re: Re: Newbie with a sickle bar...... in reply to Joe in IN, 07-26-2004 09:04:42  
1750 RPM, pto speed at 540 rpm, and 6mph is what I ran my Ford 501 pitman mower and still run my Ford 515 pitmanless mower at.
The 515 will still work good at a faster ground speed at the same engine rpm.
Sickle sections and ledger plates need to be sharp, tho.



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Wayne in WI

07-27-2004 09:22:49




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Newbie with a sickle bar...... in reply to Geo in SD, 07-26-2004 11:19:35  
Geo in SD:

Enjoyed your comments. Wish you were my neighbor as I am working on getting my Ford 515 mower working. Just replaced the wobble box bearing; next project is removing the blades for sharpening. I bought the recommeded Ford wrench (1-5/16") for removing the blade, but there isn't enough clearance to use it.

Any suggestions?

Thanks.



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txblu

07-27-2004 09:37:58




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Newbie with a sickle bar...... in reply to Wayne in WI, 07-27-2004 09:22:49  
Is it a socket?

While you are at it, I just sold mine cause of dissatisfaction. One of the problems may have been that the guides were worn out and there was too much space between my new cutters and the guide.

Someone responding in this post mentioned to take a hammer and reduce the gap. Seemed like a good idea. Might want to look into it.

Mark



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paul

07-26-2004 07:43:15




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 Re: Newbie with a sickle bar...... in reply to Joe in IN, 07-26-2004 06:17:10  
1. More worn out ledger plates/ sickle sections on that side of the mower. It's typical for the first sicle section or 2 on either end to wear out faster than the rest of the mower. Or one miss-aligned guard (bent down, up, etc) can also cause problems.

2. Worn hold-down clamps - this end with the sickle driver wears more/ faster, and the sickle may have some sloppy room to lift & the hay builds up between the sickle instead of getting cut. Replace over-worn parts, or hammer down the hold-down clips to firmly hold the sections down on the ledgers, but not so tight as to cause friction.

3. You are crowding too close to the standing hay, & the first sickle section is forced to cut 2 times as much hay. The section & 1/2 blade mentioned will help for this, tho drive a little bit farther away from the standing hay.

4. You are driving too far away from the standing hay - pickin up already cut hay with the first couple sections. This plugs up a sickle real fast. Drive closer to the standing hay, so you just fill the sickle, no overlap either way.

--->Paul

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Bigdog

07-26-2004 07:17:06




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 Re: Newbie with a sickle bar...... in reply to Joe in IN, 07-26-2004 06:17:10  
You'll want to make sure the hold down fingers are keeping the sickle down against the ledger plates on the drive end. It sounds like the close end of the sickle is being held up away from the ledger plates causing the hay to be pulled between them rather than cutting them. This can be corrected with a few taps from a hammer. Also make sure the sections and ledgers are sharp.



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Dave H (MI)

07-26-2004 07:37:48




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 Re: Re: Newbie with a sickle bar...... in reply to Bigdog, 07-26-2004 07:17:06  
For my money, I'd bet this puppy is correct. Good sharp sickle properly adjusted leaves it looking like the landscaper mowed it.



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txblu

07-26-2004 07:00:10




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 Re: Newbie with a sickle bar...... in reply to Joe in IN, 07-26-2004 06:17:10  
Now you see one of the reasons why I sent my sickle to the sale barn and cut my horse hay with my bush hog type rotary. Works great.

Mark



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Joe in IN

07-26-2004 09:08:41




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 Re: Re: Newbie with a sickle bar...... in reply to txblu, 07-26-2004 07:00:10  
I saw some of your prior posts. Rotary on Alfalfa? I have about 80% alfalfa..... As with some others I have never heard of this. But(remembering your posts) thought about running the rotary over after raking and see if I could salvage a little more..... .



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txblu

07-26-2004 09:33:57




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 Re: Re: Re: Newbie with a sickle bar...... in reply to Joe in IN, 07-26-2004 09:08:41  
Joe,

I don't know what to tell you about Alfalfa. I know when it is dry it really sheds leaves. Don't know about harvesting. I'd assume that the leaf pods would be pretty well intact when cutting, prior to drying out.

But, as I recall, it has a small but firm stem for which the sickle should be well suited. But, if we don't try something, we don't know whether or not we'll like it.

Good luck,

Mark

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paul

07-26-2004 10:18:33




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Newbie with a sickle bar...... in reply to txblu, 07-26-2004 09:33:57  
A bush hog can work for mowing grass if you are able to take the left side off, some rotories are set up for this. You need to cut the grass & get it out of there. You do not want it chopped up fine. Impossible to rake, or bale. Just comes out small clippings.

I understand it is working for you, but that is not the norm. It does not make good hay on a larger scale... Older round balers do not like short chopped up stems, difficult to bale.

It does not work at all well with alfalfa. The whole point of alfalfa is the leaves. Beat them off, & you have low-protien green straw.

Alfalfa cuts very easily with a sickle knife.

While discbines are becoming much more popular, there are some die-hards that prefer a sickle on alfalfa. The cleaner cut will sprout back a little earlier they feel. The whacked-off alfalfa stem with a rotary cutter takes a couple extra days to recover. I really don't know, but this is how some feel.

--->Paul

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txblu

07-26-2004 10:46:30




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Newbie with a sickle bar...... in reply to paul, 07-26-2004 10:18:33  
Paul,

As mentioned; my bush hogging is very limited to reasonably short 12" soft stem grass that's side discharge raked and square baled. Nitch market; but perfect for the job.

Rolls are the stemmy stuff cut with the swather (sickle, sickle rake, rollers/stem smashers, windrower; all in one).

Mark



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Bkeepr

07-26-2004 06:24:27




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 Re: Newbie with a sickle bar...... in reply to Joe in IN, 07-26-2004 06:17:10  
In exactly the same situation about 3-4 years ago, my old neighbor diagnosed from across the field. Not sure it is the same thing, but worth looking at:

The two "sections" or knife blades at either end of the bar actually need to be "half sections." In the case of my mower, a previous owner had replaced the half section with a normal full section which caused the problem you described. I went to the dealer, bought and installed a half section (it is actually 1 and a half long) and the problem was fixed.

So take a look to see if the closest triangle near the tractor is half as wide as the rest. If it isn't, I'd start off the fix by replacing it.

good luck,
Tom A

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