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Implement Alley Discussion Forum

24T Baler - Shearing Bolts - HELP Again please

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Mike

07-09-2004 12:21:41

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Gentlemen Farmers, et el

My son's 24t baler now is almost working correctly. It picks up hay, bales it and ties it, but will shear flywheel bolts (with or without hay). Timing is ok per spec. What can cause this! What should I be looking for?

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T.J.

07-11-2004 19:21:56

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Re: 24T Baler - Shearing Bolts - HELP Again please in reply to Mike, 07-09-2004 12:21:41

I'm parting out a 24t i'f you need part's.

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Bob

07-12-2004 19:21:55

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Re: Re: 24T Baler - Shearing Bolts - HELP Again pl in reply to T.J., 07-11-2004 19:21:56

Where are you located?

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Mike

07-12-2004 20:01:40

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Re: Re: Re: 24T Baler - Shearing Bolts - HELP Agai in reply to Bob, 07-12-2004 19:21:55

Northern IN where it rains every third day this spring/summer

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Bob

07-13-2004 17:15:57

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Re: Re: Re: Re: 24T Baler - Shearing Bolts - HELP in reply to Mike, 07-12-2004 20:01:40

Same in central N.Y.

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Mike

07-11-2004 19:29:23

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Re: Re: 24T Baler - Shearing Bolts - HELP Again pl in reply to T.J., 07-11-2004 19:21:56

Nothing other then some shims for the wear pads. Everything else seems to be in good shape, other than the adjustments. I handmade a tucker finger pull rod, but so far, everything still has JD green on it from the factory (or JD yellow on the new knotter frame). Send me your email address and I'll keep on file.

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07-11-2004 11:55:33

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Re: 24T Baler - Shearing Bolts - HELP Again please in reply to Mike, 07-09-2004 12:21:41

Buy a used bailer, replace the brake on the knotters. Remove the knives from the schute for the first time and sharpen. Adjust the plunger, so the knives actually cut something. Replace all the broken and bent tines in the pick-up head. Find all the grease zerks and give them their first shot of grease since the factory. Then run it empty a while to see how the timing is set. You bought a used bailer, if there was not something wrong with it, they wouldn't be selling it.

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Mike

07-11-2004 14:11:40

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Re: Re: 24T Baler - Shearing Bolts - HELP Again pl in reply to jp, 07-11-2004 11:55:33

and get the manual!

The manual should / could be in my hands this week. Probably next week. The knives are now sharpened. The plunger is out - pending information on the tolerences. When the plunger was in, the timing was good, the knotters knot - now it's just the shear pin. It looks like the wear plate on the long side of the plunger that is located on the side/top has been doing some damage to the chute frame when the plunger tips forward. The side wear plate stands a bit proud of the top wear plate.

On the bright side - I'm learning how a baler goes together....

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Bus Driver

07-11-2004 07:12:04

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Re: 24T Baler - Shearing Bolts - HELP Again please in reply to Mike, 07-09-2004 12:21:41

Never owned a baler, but a friend told me that his JD baler had baled about 100K bales and started shearing the pins. Said his trip lever had bent or stretched about 4" getting it out of time. I think it had to do with the timing of the needles. I am not absolutely sure I heard all that he said, but take a look at such parts.

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Tim(nj)

07-10-2004 09:06:10

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Re: 24T Baler - Shearing Bolts - HELP Again please in reply to Mike, 07-09-2004 12:21:41

I just had another thought. Is there any slop in the flywheel? The flywheel could "wiggle" on the shaft and pop bolts.

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Larry

07-10-2004 05:37:35

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Re: 24T Baler - Shearing Bolts - HELP Again please in reply to Mike, 07-09-2004 12:21:41

This may or may not help you...but...I had a 214W JD that was doing essentially the same thing. The thing that was happening to mine was that the plunger was running loose in the bale chamber and that stress was causing the shear pin trouble. You will know if this is the problem because your baler will be making noise--ie...not running or sounding like its running smoothly. I was trying to bale hay one day and kept shearing bolts...got mad and backed it up to the shop and unbolted the plunger and pulled it out the back....I couldn't believe the amount of wear on the wear blocks--really grooved deeply. I took some 7018 rod and started building them up to what looked like they would have been. (wasn't a pretty sight) Took my grinder and ground them off, (This was a while ago, so my memory is kind of fuzzy) As I recall, there are adjustment bolts to adjust it in the chamber...long story short....put back in, adjusted and bingo...it baled like a champ!!! Funny thing was it didn't take two hours to do the whole thing!! It literally took the noise out of the baler--once everything was adjusted it ran so smooth and quiet I just couldn't believe it!! Hope this may be of some help to you.

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Mike

07-10-2004 16:09:37

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Re: Re: 24T Baler - Shearing Bolts - HELP Again pl in reply to Larry, 07-10-2004 05:37:35

Calling Ernie!

What is the tolorence's for the plunger 1)side to side, 2) up and down?

I pulled the plunger out and looked at the wear pads. The side pads are shiny, so they are being utulized. The pads on the long-side back end are still JD Green either on most or almost all of the surface - thus at best it's bouncing around. I see that there are at least one shim under each of the pads (3 thick ones on the plunger end bottom one-side only). Looks like I could add about 1/2 inch or so in shims to the back pads to take up the room.

One thing I've noticed is that all corners of the box that have wear pads have a bolted on wear surfice in the box - except for the long-side top. That's the side that appears slight bent up.

What should I be careful to watch look for - or look-out for?!

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Mike

07-10-2004 14:20:36

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Re: Re: 24T Baler - Shearing Bolts - HELP Again pl in reply to Larry, 07-10-2004 05:37:35

The plunger has no side-to-side movement, but it will move up and down when fully stroked. You can see some bending of the top frame and a tear in the metal where it looks like the back end of the plunger has been slapping it pretty hard.

Just to confirm (remember - my manual hasn't arrived yet from JD) - to take the plunger out you unbolt from the crank and pull it out the back? Probably a good time to put an edge on the knives as well.

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Mike

07-10-2004 09:46:34

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Re: Re: 24T Baler - Shearing Bolts - HELP Again pl in reply to Larry, 07-10-2004 05:37:35

There is noise and slop from the plunger. Thanks for the tip on this. I'll check for slop in the flywheel as well.

I can't wait to get the manual!

This sure is a great web-site....

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larry

07-09-2004 21:52:41

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Re: 24T Baler - Shearing Bolts - HELP Again please in reply to Mike, 07-09-2004 12:21:41

are you using deeres bolts? there an off size on the 24t mine done the same thing and thats all it was.

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Mike

07-10-2004 05:11:58

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Re: Re: 24T Baler - Shearing Bolts - HELP Again pl in reply to larry, 07-09-2004 21:52:41

Yes - expensive deer bolts
I thought that would help, but it didn't.

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Tim(nj)

07-09-2004 13:04:57

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Re: 24T Baler - Shearing Bolts - HELP Again please in reply to Mike, 07-09-2004 12:21:41

I'd start with the needle brakes. If the springs do not have enough compression applied or the brake pads are shot, the brake will not hold the needles in home position, allowing the needle carriage to drop just enough to push the safety stop out in front of the plunger crank.

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Mike

07-09-2004 15:52:28

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Re: Re: 24T Baler - Shearing Bolts - HELP Again pl in reply to Tim(nj), 07-09-2004 13:04:57

Cranked down on the brake - to no avail.

It's shears the bolt every 3rd bail - time after time.

I'm going to adjust the needle position so that it moves further "to home" which will move the stop more out of the way.

Anything else?

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Bob

07-09-2004 16:32:14

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Re: Re: Re: 24T Baler - Shearing Bolts - HELP Agai in reply to Mike, 07-09-2004 15:52:28

I have a 24T that sheared a lot of flywheel pins when I first got it. It seems that I had 2 different problems. Sometimes the needles would just drop down. I cured this by replacing the knotter brake disc and pads. Other times, it would leave the needles in the full up position while tying. Last year, I replaced the spring on the knotter drive. I can't tell you the exact name at the moment because the manual is out in my shop. That spring didn't completely cure the problem, but it has helped alot.

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Mike

07-09-2004 18:16:26

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Re: Re: Re: Re: 24T Baler - Shearing Bolts - HELP in reply to Bob, 07-09-2004 16:32:14

Let me know which spring please. An old-time farmer friend said that one of the springs looked questionable. It was the spring between the knotters - my manual's on order, so I don't know which one to call it. He said if that one breaks - your done bailing, so keep some extra's with you. Our friend said next time buy a NH!

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Bob

07-10-2004 17:14:01

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 24T Baler - Shearing Bolts - H in reply to Mike, 07-09-2004 18:16:26

The manual really doesn't show this spring. I have a printout of the knotter parts that the parts man at the local dealership gave me. It is called: spring, trip dog, part # 279S E. Hope this is of some help.

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Mike

07-10-2004 18:05:09

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 24T Baler - Shearing Bolts in reply to Bob, 07-10-2004 17:14:01

Thanks - I'll be stocking up.

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MARSHALL

07-09-2004 13:17:28

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Re: Re: 24T Baler - Shearing Bolts - HELP Again pl in reply to Tim(nj), 07-09-2004 13:04:57

I HAVE A NH 67 AND IT HAD THE SAME PROBLEM

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