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Implement Alley Discussion Forum

13 foot disc too much, suggestions?

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Rick K.

06-30-2004 07:36:15




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I got a steal on a 13ft JD disc. 20" discs, 9" spacing. Of course like you all told me it works good until I set it in the dirt (nice heavy Mich. soil). I put more angle into the front gangs and it bites the dirt great. I can pull at 4mph no problem, it turns the dirt better at 6mph, but the tractor really bogs and temperature starts climbing too high after a couple of passes.
I could leave it alone and run at 4mph, but I think 6mph does a better job. But I need more tractor or less disc to run at 6mph.

Heres my questions.
1. Should I just get rid of one disc on each gang to make it roughly 11ft wide? I have plenty of spares, and a buddy with a plasma cutter. If I ever have to sell, I can just put others back on.
2. Should I try to keep the ground speed closer to 6mph? The dirt will actually "roll over" good. No so well at 4mph.

I don't want to sell it and find a 10-11 footer. This piece was always shedded, looks great, tight gangs, always greased, etc. 90% of the other discs around the area are junk and they want $200-300 more than I paid for this one. I use it for hobby farming only. The tractor, NH 3930, 4wd, 45hp.

YES, I would love a bigger tractor, but that will never happen.

Thanks,
Rick

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Rick K.

07-01-2004 09:40:14




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 Re: 13 foot disc too much, suggestions? in reply to Rick K., 06-30-2004 07:36:15  
Thanks for all the input. Of course I want a bigger tractor, money is a problem there. I have to work with what I have. If I do sell this disc for a profit, I want to have the other already purchased so I am not without. I had a feeling this was too big when I bought it, the guy was using a JD4020 with duals. It was advertised as a 10 footer, when I got there, it was way too nice to pass up. So I'll have to play with the cylinder to keep it out of the ground a little and back off the gang angle a little. But since I have a full shop I would rather cut this down a little and have a nice heavy duty piece of equipment, without more investment except for some time.

Rick

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paul

07-01-2004 09:34:59




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 Re: 13 foot disc too much, suggestions? in reply to Rick K., 06-30-2004 07:36:15  
I'm not sure losing 4 blades will do much.

You will not be able to get as close to the field edges/obstructions with the bigger frame overhang.

I would not torch the blades off, put a washer in their place.

The problem with bringing it back to current condition years from now is matching up blade size. The blades on the disk will wear down, the ones you stick on will be bigger, making an uneven disk. No one will give that mess a second look. Save your blades so you can make it good again if the modifications don't work out.

You can totally modify the disk and rebuild it smaller as some suggest, but not sure that is how you want to go?

You can hold the disk up a little bit on the wheels, or you can replace your large disk blades with smaller blades (if you have a pile of them, maybe you have access to someone's worn out old ones....)so the disk does not move as much soil.

It's hard to downsize as you want to, but you can get there. I'm still not sure 4 blades is going to make much difference - you are going from 36 to 32 blades, or about 10%. The disk might go a little deeper with less blades - not sure this will make up the hp you need.

You could have pulled a 13' finishing disk, but those big blades take some hp.

--->Paul

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Hugh MacKay

07-01-2004 03:32:15




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 Re: 13 foot disc too much, suggestions? in reply to Rick K., 06-30-2004 07:36:15  
Rick: Easy enough for these guys to tell someone to get rid of a disk and buy one half the size, when they are not spending their own money. Like you said good small disks are hard to find and often more expensive than large ones. You start shopping for new implements for 50 hp and less tractors and you find they almost build them from tin cans.

One guy suggested you go shopping for a big tractor and would be surprised how cheap they go, same applies to big implements. I have always found the very best source of implements for smaller tractors is buy used big equipment and cut it down. I once cut a new machine down as the price was right. I cut it in two at middle and made two from it and sold one of them. Interesting fact on this is John Deere dealer wouldn't let me cut it in two in his yard.

Getting back to my original post, I really didn't pay a lot of attention too how much your disk was over sized. You will find that it takes 1 to 1.25 hp per disk blade on a good cutting disk. This 9" spacing may even push a bit above the 1.25 hp. If you want to send an e mail, I can send a photo of a 44 blade wheel controlled tandem disk cut down to a 24 blade. This was done to match up to a Farmall C. He bought the 44 blade disk for $100, was able to do all his own fabrication. I advised him via computer from 800 miles away. He now has a 24 blade disk with real heavy disks, bearings, spacers and gang bolts. It will cut also.

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Ken

06-30-2004 20:18:07




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 Re: 13 foot disc too much, suggestions? in reply to Rick K., 06-30-2004 07:36:15  
Sounds like you got a good buy on it. Sell it for a profit and buy a smaller one.



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jimmy in fl

06-30-2004 20:07:20




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 Re: 13 foot disc too much, suggestions? in reply to Rick K., 06-30-2004 07:36:15  
Rick,

I think you bit off more than you can chew. A 13ft disc requires a little more horsepower. My 730 john deere pulls a 14ft aw disc. But I would look into getting a smaller disc.

jimmy



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txblu

07-01-2004 06:08:40




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 Re: Re: 13 foot disc too much, suggestions? in reply to jimmy in fl, 06-30-2004 20:07:20  
You can't compare your 730 to his tractor. Those 2 soup buckets and their 3'stroke only put out about 10,000 lbs of torque. Watched my neighbor pull my plow just as deep, just as fast, and I had a 4020 @ 96 hp. As I recall the 730 is rated @ 55.

Mark



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matthew

06-30-2004 19:32:46




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 Re: 13 foot disc too much, suggestions? in reply to Rick K., 06-30-2004 07:36:15  
Rick, I will give you an opinion, you will never be satisfied with you tractor and equipment so mismatched.

So what to do - The one thing you did not state is how many acres you plan to work. If you are like me now, and work a little dirt because it seems like the right thing to do. I would forget the "good deal" sell the disk and buy half that size or whatever I could afford and be happy.

On the other hand if you are planning farm enough to make bread and milk money you will be riding that 45hp tractor for a while - but do not give up on a bigger tractor. In my area it is not uncommon to find a 100 - 125 hp tractor in reasonable shape in the same price range as a utility sized tractor in similar condition. Bottom line, no demand. Back when I rode a tractor all day tying to make a buck a 125 hp was something. Today the demand is for something else. The professional farming the heavy tillage is done with 4WD at least double the hp. They still use 75 - 90 hp tractors for cultivating etc. And every one that has a big yard wants a 30 - 45 hp utility tractor.

Bottom line - The pros don't want them and they are to big to drive around the yard. Go look, you might be susprised shopping for what you might think is out of reach.

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KJM

06-30-2004 18:05:32




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 Re: 13 foot disc too much, suggestions? in reply to Rick K., 06-30-2004 07:36:15  
Rick, Just lift it a little that is what the tires are for,I worked for a farmer when I was in high school He always had me disc with the wheels down.(he said said we lost to much moisture running it to the hubs)I know it pulled a lot easier whith the wheels holding it up some.



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txblu

07-01-2004 06:06:05




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 Re: Re: 13 foot disc too much, suggestions? in reply to KJM, 06-30-2004 18:05:32  
Nice suggestion and sometimes when I am cutting a field that hasn't seen steel for a couple dozen years, I'll do that.

But here in N. TX the black clay has to be aerated. That means if you want a really good crop, to last thru the dry part of the summer so you can cut hay thru October, you need to get down 8 to 10". So a chisel then a good disc then a spike harrow and sometimes you have to use each piece on 2 passes to get her all powery and all.

Mark

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Kendall

07-01-2004 07:42:37




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 Re: Re: Re: 13 foot disc too much, suggestions? in reply to txblu, 07-01-2004 06:06:05  
I too live in N. TX and know all about black clay. Only place I know of that you need 2 shovles to dig a hole. One to dig with and another to scrape the clay off the first one.



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txblu

07-01-2004 08:17:09




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 13 foot disc too much, suggestions in reply to Kendall, 07-01-2004 07:42:37  
10-4 on that. Sometimes I get a bucket of water and pour it into the hole I'm digging. Then I get a log or something to bang the digger on when it comes out of the hole. Works pretty good.

Mark



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Gary in TX

06-30-2004 14:57:13




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 Re: 13 foot disc too much, suggestions? in reply to Rick K., 06-30-2004 07:36:15  
Rick,
Like the others have said you have about twice the size disk you need, in fact I'm really amazed that you can pull it at all. You say the bigger tractor will never happen, never say never dude! Pick you up a good 4030 or 4230 Deere for about what you paid for the NH and you will be good to go. Cab and air and all! If you don't want to get rid of the little tractor, just add the other one on. A good 4020 or 3020 Deere would do what you need as well. Personally I would not do what you are mentioning about pulling blades off although that would probably help some, its just not what I would do(personal preferance).
I have heard to many negative things about the NH tractors, enough to know that I wouldn't want one, I'm a Deere driver in any case. Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to knock your tractor, just going by what I have heard.

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jeff

06-30-2004 10:01:38




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 Re: 13 foot disc too much, suggestions? in reply to Rick K., 06-30-2004 07:36:15  
I go about 5HP per foot of disc with 16" blades, with 20" blades and my soil, I would need a 100HP tractor to get that 13'disc moving.



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Indydirtfarmer

06-30-2004 08:24:18




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 Re: 13 foot disc too much, suggestions? in reply to Rick K., 06-30-2004 07:36:15  
You've got WAAAAA AY TOO MUCH disc for your tractor. You should probably be using something in the 8' to (at the most) 10' range. Removing disc's won't lighten the load much. As you reduce the # of disc's, you INCREASE the pounds per disc aspect. The frame won't get any lighter, just becouse you remove maybe 40 pounds worth of disc's. With the pounds per disc higher, it'll just tend to dig in more. You can "gauge" the disc with the wheels, but I'd just go find the right sized disc for your tractor, and end it at that.

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txblu

06-30-2004 08:12:40




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 Re: 13 foot disc too much, suggestions? in reply to Rick K., 06-30-2004 07:36:15  
Man you do have too much disc. I have a 10' with 22" discs on either 7 or 9" centers and when I get it buried in our Houston black clay, it smokes my 80hp in 4th (out of 8).

Mark



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Hugh MacKay

06-30-2004 08:10:15




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 Re: 13 foot disc too much, suggestions? in reply to Rick K., 06-30-2004 07:36:15  
Rick: You can remove disk blades. I wouldn't cut the arbor bolts. Just find a thick washer to take place of the blade. Once you do this you have to be kind of careful along fences, hedge rows and trees. Sounds as though you will be doing most of the operating. By doing it this way you can always put it back. Many many folks have said I'll never have a larger tractor, only to be proved wrong.



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txblu

06-30-2004 08:14:00




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 Re: Re: 13 foot disc too much, suggestions? in reply to Hugh MacKay, 06-30-2004 08:10:15  
Hi Hugh.

On the larger tractor....Ug Man speak truth....know human nature.

Mark



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