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Implement Alley Discussion Forum

Help evaluating knot bales?

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BobG

06-18-2004 20:32:26




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I have an old IH #27 baler, it works fine when you have a nice even windrow that is not too large. I notices tonight that it occassionally will pull the knot loops all the way through and then the bale will not stay tied. I normally does it when you get to a clump in the windrow, I pull it with a M so no live power to slow right down. It will only do it on one side and the manual doesn't have anything about that type of knot. Is the bill hook to tight and hanging on too long before the knot can be pulled tight? Should I loosen it a little the next time I bale and see what happens.

Any help appreciated.

Bob

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Jeff F.

06-22-2004 16:21:00




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 Re: Help evaluating knot bales? in reply to BobG, 06-18-2004 20:32:26  
I had the same trouble this year. I found that I had insufficient twine disc tension. The heavier wad of hay was pulling the string out of the disc. I increased the tension gradually, and baled 450 bales w/o a miss in a very heavy first cutting this spring.



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Delbert

06-21-2004 19:05:47




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 Re: Help evaluating knot bales? in reply to BobG, 06-18-2004 20:32:26  
New twine bills might work wonders. Did on my 46 baler when it was doing that.



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Tom Schneider

06-21-2004 10:11:25




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 Re: Help evaluating knot bales? in reply to BobG, 06-18-2004 20:32:26  
Make sure your hay dogs are all in place and fuctioning properly. You may even want to install hay wedges. Doing this helps hold the hay from applying too much pressure on the strings and needles during the tying cycle. Loosen the twine disc holder on the knotter - will give you longer tails on the knot. You've loosened too much when you start forming bow knots (tail is looped back into the knot). ALWAYS keep a sharp twine knife.

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Bill Smith

06-19-2004 12:44:19




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 Re: Help evaluating knot bales? in reply to BobG, 06-18-2004 20:32:26  
My baler likes a nice even flow of hay. Works fine then. Big windrows or clumps and it messes things up with the twine. First thing is first is make sure the twine is getting cut (make sure that it is not getting partially cut some of the time). Secondly is you might need to loosen up the tension on the bill hook just a tad. Knot should consistantly pull off without pulling the knot apart or breaking the string. It seems like mine works great if it takes several bumps of the plunger before knot pulls off. Ussually will always screw up if it plunges to much hay and pulls the knot off in one wack after knot is tied. I guess is what I'm saying is even when working good it still likes small windrows and clumps. Avoid them if at all possible.

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TomH

06-19-2004 06:16:42




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 Re: Help evaluating knot bales? in reply to BobG, 06-18-2004 20:32:26  
Compare the twine knife position on the side that misses to the other side, the knife position has to be correct within about 1/16 of an inch and the knife has to be razor sharp. Compare the knots from a couple of bales that tied both sides to see if the cutoff ends are the same length, probably the bad side has shorter or ragged ends because it wasn't cut correctly.

Check the twine tension (spring loaded adjuster is right above the billhook). Compare to the side that works good. Incorrect tension and dull knifes cause most problems.

Finally, run it through a knotting cycle by hand and watch the needles as they pass the knotter, the missing side needle might be bent or out of alignment.

But even at best, mine misses more than I'd like, especially if it's running slow and picks up a big wad of hay while it ties.

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TomH

06-19-2004 06:13:58




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 Re: Help evaluating knot bales? in reply to BobG, 06-18-2004 20:32:26  
Compare the twine knife position on the side that misses to the other side, the knife position has to be correct within about 1/16 of an inch and the knife has to be razor sharp. Compare the knots from a couple of bales that tied both sides to see if the cutoff ends are the same length, probably the bad side has shorter or ragged ends because it wasn't cut correctly.

Check the twine tension (spring loaded adjuster is right above the billhook). Compare to the side that works good. Incorrect tension and dull knifes cause most problems.

Finally, run it through a knotting cycle by hand and watch the needles as they pass the knotter, the missing side needle might be bent or out of alignment.

But even at best, mine misses more than I'd like, especially if it's running slow and picks up a big wad of hay while it ties.

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txblu

06-19-2004 06:01:38




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 Re: Help evaluating knot bales? in reply to BobG, 06-18-2004 20:32:26  
There is a lot to be said about Mike's remark about knives. Makes sense to me that if you can't cut the end off the twine, it will either pull all your twine off the roll or do what yours is doing.

Yours is an interesting comment about clumps. I have had problems with clumps but not knot tieing. My baler (JD 24T) has a set of brake shoes that squeeze against a friction disc. Mine would shear the pin on the flywheel every time I hit a "clump". Set of shoes solved that. Maybe, you have a similar situation but it affects the knot more than mine did.

The other problems I had with clumps was dull cutter blades (on the ram and side of the chute) and worn out rollers on the ram which would allow the ram to move away from the blade in the chute and the grass would wad up rather than cut off. Sharpening the blades and new cam follow bearings on the ram fixed that.


Brake shoes are visually inspected. Mine had almost no shoe surface left.

Ram is easy to inspect. Visually for blade sharpness and a crowbar or large screwdriver to see if you can force the cutter blades apart as the ram blade passes the chute blade. Spacing there is supposed to be like .030 or less.

Additionally, on my round baler, my twine cutter is sharp enough to cut your finger, but not sharp enough to cut the twine. When Mike says sharp he means sharp....razor sharp.

Just some ideas.

Mark

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rosco25

12-15-2004 01:21:15




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 Re: Re: Help evaluating knot bales? in reply to txblu, 06-19-2004 06:01:38  
i dont agree with the above, if the knife arm is not in line with the main bull hook it can lead to pulling and loss of twine. to set this its best to have a crow bar leaver the knife arm forward to just miss the bull hook its carst steel so it will bend just take your time. as if its not right we find it will miss or pull then reset, what ive read you just need aprox 2ml"s knife arm moved towards the bull hook. cheers

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mike

06-18-2004 23:55:37




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 Re: Help evaluating knot bales? in reply to BobG, 06-18-2004 20:32:26  
Hi bob two things come to mind i will assume you mean when you say a clump in windrow you mean it ties within a few strokes of this clump an ih knotter is a little tricky but simpler than the others id say the billhook is too tight and possibly the twine knives are not sharp enough (they need to be a razor blade litteraly)if you need more let me know and ill try to help good luck mike



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Bob G

06-19-2004 08:12:41




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 Re: Re: Help evaluating knot bales? in reply to mike, 06-18-2004 23:55:37  
I have new twine knives on it, they are the one's with replaceable blades and are razor sharp. I think that I will loosen the bill hook a little next week when I bale my other field. Neither side makes a knot with the double loops, but at least the good side works consistently.

Thanks,
Bob



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Don-Wi

06-18-2004 23:02:21




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 Re: Help evaluating knot bales? in reply to BobG, 06-18-2004 20:32:26  
Something definatley aint right if it keeps tieing. Don't know what to tell you to look for, but it aint right. It's supposed to be tripped to trigger it to tie a knot, not just do it all on it's own.
Donovan from Wisconsin



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