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Implement Alley Discussion Forum

Welding for a beginner?

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Paul

05-19-2004 08:53:02




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Two or three a year something around the house in the country breaks. It is usually part of a tractor implement, and these are old implements. And once or twice a year I'm making some sort of metal frame or brackets with angle iron; a drill and nuts and bolts.

I spend about $150 a year by taking the broken items to a welder.

If I were to purchase a welder, what would you recommend? I have no experience, but can learn, read instructions, and follow directions. If I had a welder, it would probably get used once a month.

In this situation, would I be better off just skipping the idea of buying a welder and learning how to properly use it; or should I go ahead and buy one? If you think I should buy one, I'd like to keep it under $300.

Thanks.

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steve

06-15-2004 00:07:42




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 Re: Welding for a beginner? in reply to Paul, 05-19-2004 08:53:02  
Lot of good comments. Some junk. Lots of folks like the wire welder because you make a pretty welds...under the right conditions. In my opinion they are good for building stuff but not so good for repair work. They don't burn through paint, they don't burn through rust' they don't like wind. The wire can jam. The tips need constant attention. They do work great on aluminum. Lots of folks like the cracker boxes. Cheap and dependable.
For the farm I would look long and hard at gas powered welders. You don't have the exspense of having to run power outlets. You can get by with short leads since you can take the welder to the work...and you have a power source. Have a big storm blow through and knock out your power lines for a few days , no problem just fire up the welder and use it as a generator. You can also use it to power a wire welder for aluminum jobs. Use it to run a drill or a saw out in the field.
They are easy to weld with.
And no am not a salesman for for a welding company. Just a farmer that knows how to weld (and wrench). Steve

for

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Kelly C

05-19-2004 20:42:09




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 Re: Welding for a beginner? in reply to Paul, 05-19-2004 08:53:02  
third party image

I recomend a stick welder. Like Century or a licoln. They dont work as well on light stuff. But hey we cant weld that crap any way.
They dont cost much and you can weld just about any farm related item.
Here is a photo of my 1st welding project with my century welder.( please excuse the mess)
Came out pretty good and have hauled my H and my 400 on it, Delivered hay and many Auction finds.
Great Farm welder and easy to learn.

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Dan

05-19-2004 20:27:31




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 Re: Welding for a beginner? in reply to Paul, 05-19-2004 08:53:02  
I have used a stick welder for years. Mine was a Montgomery Ward brand, made by someone else of course and it has been a good welder. I weld stuff to hold, not to look pretty. Sometimes I add a lot of ballist to an implement just from welds. If I was starting over now I would get a mig welder. I worked for a guy who had one at one time and the first time I used it I made a nice looking weld. I found I could weld on different types of metal and different positions much easier than with stick. Other thing I would highly recommend is a auto darkening helmet.

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Matt K

05-19-2004 14:50:11




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 Re: Welding for a beginner? in reply to Paul, 05-19-2004 08:53:02  
I'd suggest taking a welding class at your nearest technical college. Still takes lots of practice to make good welds, but at least you'll know how to do it.



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Paul Janke

05-19-2004 13:13:05




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 Re: Welding for a beginner? in reply to Paul, 05-19-2004 08:53:02  
Used AC only buzzboxes can sometimes be found for anywhere from free to $50. The most common rods used to be 6011 and 6013. Now other common rods seem to be 7014, 7024, and AC 7018. DC is nice, but inexpensive is, too. Those AC buzzboxes seem to last forever, too. Name brand is not necessary.



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Bill Smith

05-19-2004 13:02:31




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 Re: Welding for a beginner? in reply to Paul, 05-19-2004 08:53:02  
The handiest welder I've been around was a portable gas powered welder. Probably a little expensive for a beginner doing shop bound work. A little shop welder is probably what you will want. You can learn to weld from the book, but it will save alot of time and messing around if you can have somebody that knows what they are doing to show you the ropes of welding. You will want to weld on a bunch of scrap iron to start out with untill you can weld descent. Then start welding on projects. Even myself can weld descent but I go for 6 months at a time without doing any welding. Even I have to weld on scrap from time to time for 5 or 10 minutes to refresh my skills and ability to weld.

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Mac

05-19-2004 12:49:31




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 Re: Welding for a beginner? in reply to Paul, 05-19-2004 08:53:02  
Spend the extra $100 or so and get AC/DC to start out with. People try to learn out of position with AC and never get it right. DC has more stable arc and easier vertical/OH welding. You can also reverse polarity for less heat on work for thin stuff. It's easy to get discouraged and you don't want to be "practicing" A/C when you need something fixed on the farm. The old "ain't pretty but it'll hold" saying is a crock. I don't know how many broke dirt dobber welds I've ground off and redone on used equip. TSC had Hobart Stickmate AC/DC-235/160 for $369.

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txblu

05-24-2004 05:55:37




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 Re: Re: Welding for a beginner? in reply to Mac, 05-19-2004 12:49:31  
Well, with a stick maybe so, but the wire feed is a different rabbit. They hold even though they aren't pretty.

Mark



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hay

05-19-2004 12:14:47




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 Re: Welding for a beginner? in reply to Paul, 05-19-2004 08:53:02  
lincoln buzzbox 225 amp AC welders is about as good a deal as there is for a hobbist. cost about $230 at lowes home improvement stores. i have a 225 amp miller thunderbolt AC because that is what was bought for me as a gift. about the same price range as lincoln. the AC/DC are better for beginners because the DC is easier to weld with. like someone else said the 6011 rods are about the cheapest and best all around to use on rusty, dirty metal.

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buck

05-19-2004 12:08:42




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 Re: Welding for a beginner? in reply to Paul, 05-19-2004 08:53:02  

Well having one sure helps with the repairs and the new projects and cuts down on depending on someone else on their scedule. first off I have 3 oxy/act., 225 lincoln stick and wire with gas. they all have their area for good uses. I call on the old 225 most as I sorta like to fry them rods. If you a minimum of a 50 amp service then I would suggest a stick to begin with. Go ahead with an ac/dc rig. You will probably find that once you get one that you will want/need others to compliment and expand your skills. Right off I would say that you need one real bad.

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Mark in MO

05-19-2004 11:50:21




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 Re: Welding for a beginner? in reply to Paul, 05-19-2004 08:53:02  
Miller or Lincoln are good welders.
As far as rod, 6011 is a very handy to have around, it is a quick "Freeze" rod which makes it good for overhead and vertical welding, it takes a pretty good welder to make these welds look good though. If you can afford one, a Lincoln Pipeliner with the 4 cyl Wisconsin motor is the best, even I can weld with one of those. LOL
Just my O
Mark Hill
Dearborn,MO

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txblu

05-19-2004 09:21:39




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 Re: Welding for a beginner? in reply to Paul, 05-19-2004 08:53:02  
I'm an X city boy with no training. 25 years ago I bought a Miller 200A ac STICK welder for $135. I experimented until I could please me (it held, not necessarily pretty).

I always liked the smaller rods around 3/16, 1/4 max, which could be run at lower currents (not over 150A). This helped me get the job done as the welder was duty cycle limited and had to be watched so it wouldn't overheat.

After lotta years and the kids getting on their own, I decided to give the welder to a son and upgrade. First was a 200A Miller ac/dc stick which produced beautiful welds with the 7018 rod ($300). I could weld sheet metal with this rig if using the 3/16 rod which is what I used on almost all but the most demanding welding. (Bigger rods are just sitting in the cooler).

Was in TSC one day and they had their MIG type wire welders on sale for $200 which did not require bottled gas. Used flux in the wire like flux core solder for (radiator or electronics repair). This is real handy and can almost weld paper but not pretty. I think you need to upgrade to a gas unit to get it pretty. What I like about it is I don't have to wear the helment required with the other welder. In the summer time that is great. It uses a hand held shield for your eyes.

I like both. Could have done without the wire but like it and use it. I bought the last stick the dealer had and that was 5 years ago. Don't know if they make them anymore.

You can teach yourself to weld or get a book.

Hope this helps,

txblu

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JB

05-19-2004 16:40:43




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 Re: Re: Welding for a beginner? in reply to txblu, 05-19-2004 09:21:39  
Hi, have a friend who's son is going to Tech college to be a machainist. His son is being taught how to use stick, MIG and Oxy/Acetylene
welding but instructor says stick and Oxy/Acetylene welding are all being replaced by MIG welding and Plasma for cutting.

40 years ago I took classes on stick and Oxy/Acetylene welding but never used it enough to become good. Had a neighbor that had made his living welding for MF combines with stick welders. He has switched to a MIG with gas about 12 years ago.

My 2 cents
JB

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JD-A

05-21-2004 13:20:18




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 Re: Re: Re: Welding for a beginner? in reply to JB, 05-19-2004 16:40:43  
MIG is great until the wind blows the gas off the weld, even a fan on you in the summer will do this. Only had this happen once w/ stick, 14' up on a barn, sheilded the weld w/ free hand-no problem. The Lincoln crackerbox welders seem to work well for my students, and are fairly kidproof. AC has worked well for me over the years, it's all in rod manilulation,setting the amps right, and matching the rod to the metal(6011-mild steel) & (7018 to metal w/ more carbon in it) Good luck and others will need you to weld their stuff too

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txblu

05-22-2004 17:14:23




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Welding for a beginner? in reply to JD-A, 05-21-2004 13:20:18  
I used the 6011 for years thinking this was gospel as all the old hands recommended it.

After about 20 years of that, a smart elic neighbor raised on a farm in Iowa blew off about the 7000 series. I settled on the 7018. Will not go back ever for any welding job.

txblu



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Paul

05-22-2004 05:27:34




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Welding for a beginner? in reply to JD-A, 05-21-2004 13:20:18  
I'm probably going to go with a stick welder. The only place I have to set this up is in a covered 2 car carport. I can store the welder in an enclosed area, but the only space I have available to use it is the carport. It's got a roof overhead, but no walls on the side, it can get a breeze in there. I don't have a workshop or a barn.



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txblu

05-24-2004 09:23:25




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Welding for a beginner? in reply to Paul, 05-22-2004 05:27:34  
One last comment. If you think you'll like the 6011 fine. Buy a couple of pounds. But while you're there buy yourself a couple of pounds of 3/16" 7018's too.

They make two types: regular for DC applications and 7018AC if you only have an AC machine. The regular 7018 used with a DC machine is the best. Run your heat up or down depending on material thickness but 90amps is a good starting point.

Then tell me which rod is "the all purpose" rod. Not only because of weld consistency and smoothness, but sheer strength especially on flat, thin mower decks that like to crack or anything else with a lot of vibration where 6011 falls flat on it's butox. Not that it won't weld practically everything else; flat vibrating decks are the challenge. Course you could always weld a gusset over the crack which is what you really should do anyway. Then it will hold for sure..... maybe even with the 6011.

Mark

May amaze some old timers.

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txblu

05-24-2004 09:13:29




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Welding for a beginner? in reply to Paul, 05-22-2004 05:27:34  
When I first got to the farm, I welded adjacent to the power pole in the yard on top of a skid. Obviously I was a fair weather welder. Not only did I not have a building, but I couldn't even afford to run a 50 amp 220 service anywhere. It was already on the pole when I bought the property.

Somehow we survive.

But I would wrap it up in a cotton tarp or something to keep the water out and dirtdobbers out of the fan.

Best of luck

Mark

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