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Implement Alley Discussion Forum

Crusted soil after planting?

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Paul

05-06-2004 17:54:27




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This is for part of a dove field, about an acre. I was planting sunflowers with a 2 row planter and had previously disked up the ground moderately in the few days before planting. Organic content is low in this soil. It rained about an inch within an hour after I was done. I went back a few days later and the ground was pretty hard. Today is 6 days later, the ground hardly even breaks or gives when 220 pounds of Paul walks on it.

I don't know much about agriculture, but I can't see a sunflower seed pushing through that. I can hardly break open the crust with my hands.

So earlier today I undid the drivechain from the planter and went over part of the field again. I adjusted the toplink so that the 2 swords of the planter won't dig in more than an inch or so into the soil. Then I went back over the field and drove in the same tracks as when i planted. It turn the sold crust into lots of grape sized pieces of soil over the planted rows. I only did half the field. I did see some germinting seeds once the crust was broken.

Is this the right way to fix a problem with crusted soil, or is there another better way?

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Chris-se-ILL

05-07-2004 04:57:19




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 Re: Crusted soil after planting? in reply to Paul, 05-06-2004 17:54:27  
For just that small amount of ground, you probably did alright by busting the crust with the planter. We have had many times where a rain packs the soil like concrete after a rain. We usually us a rotory hoe to tear the cust up, as long as the seed is either not germinated or just after germination, but before emergence.

Mother Nature will NOT take care of the situation. Sunflowers are sort of like soybeans , in that they have to push the germinated seed up through the soil. The result of a packed soil is that the seedling will "snap-it's-neck" {break the stem} pushing against the hardpacked soil. I have seldom seen a field do very well after a packing rain does that to the soil. The crop will never be what it would have been, if it had not happened {even with all the crust busted open!}.

I would guess that you will see a much better yield/crop on the part that you broke open. Many folks do not like to see ANY plants or seed laying on the ground after a rotory hoe runs over a planted field. But the proper way to us it {we have a modern 3pt. mounted JD} ...use a lot of down pressure, drive fast, don't look back! I have tried playing with the down presssure and speed, but have always found that there is only one way to do it!

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Jack

05-06-2004 23:22:05




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 Re: Crusted soil after planting? in reply to Paul, 05-06-2004 17:54:27  
A big clue as to why your soil crusted...1 low organic matter, 2 rain compacted soil. Mother Earth News did an article recently a few issues back on building healthy soil. Try to stay off the soil with any equipment as much as possible. Try to build the earthworm population back up and add organic compost NOT COMPOSTED STEER MANURE OR ANY OTHER TYPE OF COMPOSTED MANURE. Manures contain all the nasty by products that have been injected and added to cattle feed such as hormones, antibiotics, pesticides etc. and this leaches into the soil. Also chemical fertilizers tend to build up salts in the soil. There's my $.02.

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JMS/MN

05-07-2004 11:59:50




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 Re: Re: Crusted soil after planting? in reply to Jack, 05-06-2004 23:22:05  
Gosh! for years I have been hearing from all of your compadres about how they show up in the meat and milk! Now it's in the excrement too? So when I gave those dairy cows 10cc of penicillin for three days in a row, and dumped the milk for another three or more, after TESTING their milk and getting a negative response on the test before putting the milk into the bulk tank- you're telling me that the AB ended up in the manure pit before getting spread over several hundred acres? WOW!! the stuff a fellow can learn on a good board. Our creamery, like the rest, test EVERY load of milk that comes into the plant. Before the trucker unloads, it is a twenty minute wait for the AB test result. If it is positive, the load is dumped into the settling pond, while EACH farmer's sample from that load is tested for AB. Then, THAT farmer buys the whole load. And is fined, and put on probation for a year by the MN Dept. of Agriculture. By the way, what pesticide is added to animal feed? And if rain compacts our soil, I gues we need to sue GOD for ruining nature. Reminds me of what I learned in a U of M soils course many years ago. The EPA set runoff standards, and forest lands in northern Minnesota exceeded those standards. Again, time to sue our Creator, because man can mandate more accurate standards.

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riverbend

05-07-2004 18:37:18




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 Re: Re: Re: Crusted soil after planting? in reply to JMS/MN, 05-07-2004 11:59:50  
Before you get too carried away, antibiotics, and hormones are showing up in lakes and rivers in Minnesota. Some are from the cities, some are from the farms. Pesticides in feed ? Unless you are feeding organic, I'll guarentee that there are pesticide residues in the feed. They are on our food, are you saying that they are not on your feed ?



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thurlow

05-07-2004 07:00:11




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 Re: Re: Crusted soil after planting? in reply to Jack, 05-06-2004 23:22:05  
I love your idea of adding organic compost and building up the earthworm population; how much would it take to do a half-acre???? How much to do a couple of thousand acres????? I might consider a new career selling earthworms to farmers.....only one thing stopping me; I know they'll have me committed to a mental institution when I broach the subject.....



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riverbend

05-07-2004 09:38:18




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 Re: Re: Re: Crusted soil after planting? in reply to thurlow, 05-07-2004 07:00:11  
7 to 15 tons per acre is typical depending on the soil type.

I add compost and plow down green manure crops, and our soil crust over after hard rains. Rotary hoe usually works, but it is hard on root crops.



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paul

05-07-2004 06:03:14




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 Re: Re: Crusted soil after planting? in reply to Jack, 05-06-2004 23:22:05  
That's about the dumbest message I ever read here. Each to their own opinion, but I have to call a rose a rose. Love to see you try to make a living farming. :) :) :) :) :) My opinion is you haven't a clue, and i'm glad I let my MEN subscription end when they first moved to New York years ago - they haven't a clue either any more.

High clay soils will crust over under the right conditions, just how it is.

Rotory hoe is the tool of choice, a harrow (drag) with the teeth real shallow works fine, and what the original poster did probably worked, tho was a heavy implement & difficult to control a shallow depth I'd think.

--->Paul

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JMS/MN

05-07-2004 11:44:39




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 Re: Re: Re: Crusted soil after planting? in reply to paul, 05-07-2004 06:03:14  
Paul-AIRBORNE! to your answer!!!You know that is a salute! Reminds me of a chat board response to the St. Cloud Times article about a recent manure spill near Rockville. Some idiot (No, I'm not sorry for saying that about a misinformed individual trying to stir up trouble from a base of no knowledge) tried to flame the story by 'wondering' about all the BST, and antibiotics that would get into the city water supply due to the spill. Couldn't help but wonder about the handy volume quoted- 100,000 gallons. I'm distantly acquainted with the farm owner- I'd like to hear his take on the whole situation.

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paul

05-07-2004 12:13:06




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Crusted soil after planting? in reply to JMS/MN, 05-07-2004 11:44:39  
There was a spill 'somewhere' about 10 years ago. The farmer's side of the story was that heavy rains got into his holding area, and 10,000 gal of manure combined with 90,000 gallons of rainwater. And somehow this spilled out. So it was reported as 100,000 gallons of manure spilled. And he paid a pretty hefty fine for it. A whole lot, as I recall. He should have, if the mistake was his. Was a story for months & months, how all this pollution will cause all these problems for years & decades to all the towns & all the wildlife... Altho most of it was contained & cleaned up in the nearby man-made drainage ditch. It still would have ramifications all the way to the Gulf Coast it seems!

That same summer, the sewage pipe from St. Peter (or was it Le Seur? I don't think so, there problem is the settlement & treatment ponds are in the flood plain & the MN River was running _through_ their city septic tanks....) under the Minnesota River washed out & ruptured. The pipe could not be shut off, as there was no place else for the sewage to go. There was no alternative pipe, and this was that bad flooding year so no one could get to repair or reroute it.... So, the experts decided the 30,000 gallons of human sewage that was leaking out of the pipe _per day_ directly into the Minnesota river was no real threat to anyone or anything, and no one was fined anything, and it should get fixed in a few months when the flood waters go down.

Never ever heard there was any problems or fines or issue at all with the Le Seur issue.

Fairness.

--->Paul

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no jack

05-07-2004 02:17:05




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 Re: Re: Crusted soil after planting? in reply to Jack, 05-06-2004 23:22:05  
jack you don't know jack about manure. it builds organic matter and is all around good for the soil cheap natural fertilizer. how much antibiodics pesticides and hormones are there in a ton of manure



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Larry

05-06-2004 20:37:25




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 Re: Crusted soil after planting? in reply to Paul, 05-06-2004 17:54:27  
If your disk was an old pull type - back up out of gear and pull over the rows. My Dad did that for cotton, milo & corn back in the 40`s and 50`s



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kjm

05-06-2004 19:27:06




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 Re: Crusted soil after planting? in reply to Paul, 05-06-2004 17:54:27  
Rotary hoe or we have used a harrow with the teeth laid all the way back. Your way will probley work fine. KJM



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evielboweviel

05-06-2004 19:12:39




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 Re: Crusted soil after planting? in reply to Paul, 05-06-2004 17:54:27  
cultipacker time done it lots with soybeans
rotary hoe is for after crop is up to tear out the little weeds
Ron



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thurlow

05-06-2004 18:50:13




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 Re: Crusted soil after planting? in reply to Paul, 05-06-2004 17:54:27  
For what you were doing and what you had to work with, I'd say you did all right; I assume you didn't have an old rotary hoe sitting out behind the shop??? And not to flame Alvin..... ..but, some things Mother Nature can't handle without some help..... ..



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Alvin NE WI

05-06-2004 18:08:51




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 Re: Crusted soil after planting? in reply to Paul, 05-06-2004 17:54:27  
Mother Nature usually takes care of the seeds after they are in the ground. Only time to worry is when it is very cold and the seeds do not gernamate if soil temp doesn't get up to the middle 50's or better



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