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Implement Alley Discussion Forum

Liming a field.

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Tim

04-28-2004 17:25:08




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I want to plant a couple food plots for deer this year. I had a soil test done and it says I should add 5500lbs of lime per acre. What�s the best way for me to do this? I measured it up and figure I have one and a half acres to plant this year.

I plowed it up last year for the first time in many many years. I want to plow and disc it again before planting this year but should this be done before adding the lime or after

Secondly what�s the best way to lime the field. Will one of the commercial lime spreaders with the big trucks be willing to do such a small area? If not I have a 300lb broadcast spreader but will lime flow through it. Would buying bagged lime be ridiculously expensive compared to bulk?

Hope these questions don�t sound too stupid. All thoughts are appreciated!

Thanks
Tim

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Jason

05-01-2004 04:40:46




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 Re: Liming a field. in reply to Tim, 04-28-2004 17:25:08  
Sounds like you on the right track tim. For more info you might want to pick up a copy of Cornell Recomends, It cost somewhere around $8 from the U.



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Jerry/MT

04-29-2004 21:21:52




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 Re: Liming a field. in reply to Tim, 04-28-2004 17:25:08  
You didn't say what you were using the ground for. Your local extention agent shouldbe able to give you some info on best practices in your area for the type of crops you are growing.

I prefer to lime my pastures in the fall so the fall rains can move the lime down into the soil and reduce the pH so that when I fertilize in the spring, the nutrients will be available to the plants.The beauty of using lime on pastures in the Northwest is that short of of leaving it in large piles, anyway you spread it works and won't cause any harm.

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JTEX

04-29-2004 14:52:46




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 Re: Liming a field. in reply to Tim, 04-28-2004 17:25:08  
THIS IS PROBABBLY GOING TO BE A DUMB QUESTION TO YOU GUYS BUT WHAT DOES THE LIME DO. HERE IN TEX I HAVE NEVER HEARD OF IT. WE PUT LIME DOWN UNDER THE BASE FOR A HWY OR A BIG SLAB/PARKING LOT BUT HAVE NEVER HEARD OF IT IN A FIELD. ???



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riverbend

04-29-2004 17:24:54




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 Re: Re: Liming a field. in reply to JTEX, 04-29-2004 14:52:46  
You use it to adjust the pH (acidity) of the soil.



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czt

04-29-2004 12:08:41




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 Re: Liming a field. in reply to Tim, 04-28-2004 17:25:08  
most places that truck lime have available a pull type spreader that hold 4 or so tons that they will rent for a few bucks.



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Richard Fazio

04-29-2004 10:57:27




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 Re: Liming a field. in reply to Tim, 04-28-2004 17:25:08  
Tim, where are you located? I'm in need of lime also, and in the process of getting the soil checked. I'm in central NY. I know I need a ton of lime. I'm just wondering how I'll compare with what you need.



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Tim

04-29-2004 13:24:28




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 Re: Re: Liming a field. in reply to Richard Fazio, 04-29-2004 10:57:27  
I�m also in central NY. I called around today and was quoted $36 a ton delivered and spread. They told me the small amount wasn�t a problem so don�t know if they are charging a premium for a small load or not. I�m going to go there tomorrow and discuss it further and get fertilizer also. They use a truck with the giant �BIGFOOT� type tires on it so I would think that wouldn�t leave too bad of a rut.

I can get bagged pulverized lime for $100 a ton.
Tim

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Hal

04-29-2004 20:47:34




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 Re: Re: Re: Liming a field. in reply to Tim, 04-29-2004 13:24:28  
Wow, isn't it ridiculous $100 a ton for bagged lime. The funny thing is, why is it you can walk into Lowe's and buy 1 bag at a time of exactly the same lime and it still only comes to around $2.50 for 50#? And in Home Depot the 40# bags I believe are $1.99, so that's $100/ton. Shouldn't we be getting a break when buying several tons from the farm supply places? I know it's all up from last year, they blame it on fuel and trucking costs.

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Richard Fazio

04-29-2004 16:57:28




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 Re: Re: Re: Liming a field. in reply to Tim, 04-29-2004 13:24:28  
Wow $36.00 a ton delivered and spread sure seems reasonable. I've got about an acre I want to do. I'm probably going to need 2 or 3 tons also. $100 or so is a lot better than I thought it was going to be. Thanks for the info. By the way I'm in Acra, 12405. It's about 45 minutes south west of Albany.



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Hal

04-29-2004 09:35:16




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 Re: Liming a field. in reply to Tim, 04-28-2004 17:25:08  
If you are adding that much it would be best to apply one-half and plow it down, then apply the other half and disk it in. The 5500# rate has to be based on some ENV value; if you get lime of higher value you will need less. Generally bagged pulverized lime has a higher ENV than bulk wet lime.
If they run the loaded lime truck across your plowed ground it will leave ruts and compaction. For such a small area I would do it myself with bagged lime, even if it costs a little more. I think you will get a better job.

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Tim

04-29-2004 13:31:37




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 Re: Re: Liming a field. in reply to Hal, 04-29-2004 09:35:16  
What does the �ENV� stand for? The soil test says its based on limestone with a �90% total Neutralizing Potential� and a �70% Effective Calcium Carbonate. � That mean anything to you?
Thanks
Tim



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Hal

04-29-2004 19:54:00




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 Re: Re: Re: Liming a field. in reply to Tim, 04-29-2004 13:31:37  
ENV is the "Effective Neutralizing Value". It is related to the Total Neutralizing Value (or Potential), but it takes into account how finely the limestone is ground. The finer the material the more quickly it will react with the soil since it has more surface area. ENV is supposed to be an estimate of how much of a liming material will be available to change the soil pH within one year. I am surprised they based the recommendation on TNV. When the test is done by Cornell Coop Extension in NY I have always seen the reccomendations based on 100% ENV.

But anyways, they are telling you apply 5500# if the Calcium Carbonate Equivalent is 90%. Pulverized Dolmitic limestone in bags usual has a CCE greater than 100, maybe 104%, it will say on the bag. If you were using the 104% stuff you would need less, like 90 divided by 104 times 5500=4760# per acre. Of course, if the stuff you can get spread at low prices has lower values for TNV and CCE then you will need more than 5500 lbs. Because Dolomitic limestone contains magnesium carbonate it has more neutralizing value than calcitic limestone. One pound of pure magnesium carbonate will neutralize the same amount of acid as 1.2 pounds of calcium carbonate. Therefore dolomite limestone often has a higher TNV than calcium limestone, but you would usually pick one over the other if you wanted to correct magnesium levels based on soil tests.
If your supplier can give you the ENV and/or TNV try to find out what it is. There is a long winded calculation you can do if you know the TNV and the percent of material passing thru 20 and 60 mesh screens to come up with the ENV, but if you are going to have the dealer spread it they should be able to tell you how many tons of their material you need to satisfy the recommendations, as long as they are reputable. If their values are low, than either the lime has a lot of impurities/moisture or is not finely ground. Anything passing thru a 60 mesh screen should react fully within 1 year, if it passes a 100 mesh screen it should react within 6 months. Good luck

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Peter

04-29-2004 07:12:55




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 Re: Liming a field. in reply to Tim, 04-28-2004 17:25:08  
Got a good laugh out of your post

"My" deer are doing plenty well on whatever comes up by itself plus whatever I plant

seed them some red clover, build them a pond and maybe a bit of salt

might want to add some molasses feeders if their coats aren't shiney enuf



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kyhayman

04-29-2004 05:14:05




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 Re: Liming a field. in reply to Tim, 04-28-2004 17:25:08  
The replies represent differences in soils and lime needs and rates throughout the US. Here in central Kentucky I routinely need to apply 2-3 tons of lime per acre (or more, at times as much as 5-6 tons annually for several years). Generally speaking my comments would apply to areas south of Indianapolis/Columbus and east of Columbia, MO. In these areas warmer climate and ample rainfall combine to increase the reactivity of lime. I would not be concerned about putting 2-3 tons of quarried ag lime on as a top dressing or disced into the top few inches of soil. If you decide to use your small spreador I would seriously consider using pelleted lime, cost will be more (I boutht it for $100 a ton by the pallet this spring to put in the grass seed box when notilling alfalfa, just a light rate banded in te row), truck spread lime with RNV of 67 runs me $12.35-$12.65 per ton spread but this is by the full truck load. If you are in the geographic area I described there would be no harm in putting on a full truck load (12 tons). Over liming can be a problem with nutrient availability (and plant diseases) in intensive cropping but for food plots its not a real concern. For a full truck load you are looking at $150+/- (the lime is the cheap part, it's the per hour/minute rate on the truck that gets you). Based on location, your results may vary.

Warmest regards,
David

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Tim

04-29-2004 07:21:11




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 Re: Re: Liming a field. in reply to kyhayman, 04-29-2004 05:14:05  
I'll have to call around today and find out about having the lime spread. Even if I have to buy 12 tons it sounds cheaper and easier than doing it myself. I could always have the rest of the lime spread on my hay field, as I�m sure it can use it too.
Thanks
Tim



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paul

04-28-2004 19:12:21




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 Re: Liming a field. in reply to Tim, 04-28-2004 17:25:08  
Wow, that's a lot of lime. Might want to do that in stages, lime takes a few years to activate fully anyhow if it's ag lime. The pelletized stuff will kick in quicker, but costs a lot more. Think it's hard to add more than a ton an acre, might want to make this a 3 year project...

--->Paul



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riverbend

04-28-2004 18:45:17




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 Re: Liming a field. in reply to Tim, 04-28-2004 17:25:08  
That's a lot of lime. Is your ground a peat bog ? If your lime is dry, it will go through the broadcast spreader, but you are talking about 30 loads. If you have farming neighbors, deer are a pest.



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Tim

04-29-2004 07:16:05




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 Re: Re: Liming a field. in reply to riverbend, 04-28-2004 18:45:17  
Definitely not a peat bog. It�s all clay (& rocks). Form the few people I talked to locally 5500lbs didn�t seem unreasonable for this area. PH is 5.4.
There use to be a number of active farms in the area but this is no longer the case. That�s why I want to plant some corn and biologic food plots to help keep and draw deer into the area. Tim



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SmallOps

04-30-2004 01:57:48




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 Re: Re: Re: Liming a field. in reply to Tim, 04-29-2004 07:16:05  
Yo, Tim! How about a compramise here. I'll ship you a 12 ton truck of deer and you can skip the lime/food plot thingy. The deer are so thick around here from the trophy homesteader's food plots that we don't hunt them with any firearms or bows anymore. Now, you just need your front bumper!



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