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Implement Alley Discussion Forum

Combination Cat I and Cat II 3pt lift arms

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Tipton, IND

04-17-2004 19:10:30




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My Allis D10-III is Cat I 3pt hitch, recently I bought a plow and when I went to hook it up I was disappopinted to find the hitch beam was Cat II with 1-1/8" dia ends. It is not practical to change the diam of the ends on the forged hitch beam so that leave me wondering if I can buy a 32" lift arm with Cat I mounting on one end and both Cat I and Cat II on the other end. Or, does some one make a lift arm with a socketed end so that one could pop in an adapter with the correct size? Thanks vwboy006~AOL.com

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evielboweviel

04-18-2004 16:47:08




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 Re: Combination Cat I and Cat II 3pt lift arms in reply to Tipton, IND, 04-17-2004 19:10:30  
I would not modify the tractor arms at all . Take a right angle grinder, patience and time. throw in a grinding wheel or two and those pins on the plow will be the right size. Cheap and simple
Good luck Ron



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Jerry/MT

04-17-2004 20:35:39




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 Re: Combination Cat I and Cat II 3pt lift arms in reply to Tipton, IND, 04-17-2004 19:10:30  
They make adapter bushings to fit Cat I pins to Cat II holes. Guess you could take a Cat II lift arm and bush one end down to a Cat I. Are you sure your machine can handle the plow horsepower wise? If a machine has less than about 50 horsepower it has a Cat I 3 PT. AT 50 HP it can have either and above 50 to about a 100, I believe it's strictly Cat II. My 4610 has Cat I and Cat II lift arms It's rated at 52 HP. Hope this helps.

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Tipton, IND

04-18-2004 03:53:52




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 Re: Re: Combination Cat I and Cat II 3pt lift arms in reply to Jerry/MT, 04-17-2004 20:35:39  
Good Point, yes I did take off one of the bottoms of the 83 series plow (with tailwheel) so now it is a series 82 (2-bottom) plow. Thanks



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Jerry/MT

04-18-2004 22:04:47




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 Re: Re: Re: Combination Cat I and Cat II 3pt lift in reply to Tipton, IND, 04-18-2004 03:53:52  
One of the other guys might have mentioned it, but my 4610 has removable lower lift arm balls that are replaceable. I have a pair of Cat I and a pair of Cat II balls. Any chance your lift arms are built this way?



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Hal

04-18-2004 08:45:57




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 Re: Re: Re: Combination Cat I and Cat II 3pt lift in reply to Tipton, IND, 04-18-2004 03:53:52  
You may think it is a little drastic, but if you really want to use this plow (or other Cat 2 items) with that tractor, you might look into the weld-on ball ends that are used for repairs of worn linkages. You would have to cut off the Cat I balls and grind and weld on the new ones, but it should turn out looking OK. For your Cat I stuff you would use bushings.

Be sure to check the width of the hitch also. Cat 2 is usually wider, you may not have enough movement left in the hitch for the plow to work properly or even hitch up without some other mods.

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Tipton, INDIANA

04-19-2004 07:07:58




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Combination Cat I and Cat II 3pt l in reply to Hal, 04-18-2004 08:45:57  
After reading all the feedback and brainstorming ideas I removed the entire Cat II apperatus from the plow in order to remove the hitch bar with 1-1/8" pins on each end. In doing so an 1_1/2" dia hole on both sides of the plow frame came to light; there were bushings in it, bolts used to support the Cat II hitch passed thru the bushings. The hitch bar also has eccentric pins so that the bar can be rotated, probably a Cat II feature. Bottom line is that there is a lot of Cat II stuff on this plow that is not needed to make this work on Cat I.

Now it looks like I can get a 1-1/2 dia bar and turn the ends down to 7/8" dia, redo the bracing. Will keep you posted and THANKS for the ideas.

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Hal

04-19-2004 11:13:14




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Combination Cat I and Cat II 3 in reply to Tipton, INDIANA, 04-19-2004 07:07:58  
Good luck with you project, it seems like it might work.
I think the eccentric pins and bar rotation are a feature to adjust the plow to work level and straight; it is not unique to Cat 2, I have seen it on some Cat 1 plows also. Whatever the case, it is good to have some kind of offset in the bar so the right side pin is lower than the left to compensate for driving the right wheel in the furrow, otherwise you will have to make all the adjustment in the tractor hitch. If you could have a right-to-left adjustment for the bar, that would help in setting it up for a good job also.

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Tipton, INDIANA

04-19-2004 11:53:12




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Combination Cat I and Cat in reply to Hal, 04-19-2004 11:13:14  
Thanks for the advice. Us city boys, turned farm enthusiasts, need all the help we can get. That's why these boards are so great!



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Hal

04-19-2004 14:09:21




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Combination Cat I and in reply to Tipton, INDIANA, 04-19-2004 11:53:12  
Definately try to get a look at another 2-bottom name-brand Cat 1 plow that hasen't been modified and take the measurements from that to use for what you are fabricating, including how far in the first plow bottom is mounted from the hitch pin.

Sometimes it is not so straight forward to just remove the rear bottom. The hitch is designed so that the 3-bottom plow runs more or less centered behind the tractor. This requires a certain wheel spacing on the tractor to work properly, maybe in the range of 68-76" depending on the plow. For a 2-bottom plow the tractor might be set more in the 56-60" range. This all determines the distance between the first plow bottom and the inside edge of the rear tire. Good luck.

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paul

04-18-2004 11:57:42




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Combination Cat I and Cat II 3pt l in reply to Hal, 04-18-2004 08:45:57  
Yes, at the very least your limiter chains/ brackets would need to be changed as well, I believe there is 6" wider on cat 2, 26" to 32"?

Also cat2 lower arms are longer than cat1, giving a bigger range of motion. This may or not be important to some operations.

I'd consider getting lower arms from a junk yard - either what you have now, or a cat 2 arm that would sorta fit up, and do as you suggest & make something that has the ends & bushings needed. If welding ends on, I'd look for the balls with both sized holes in them as I mentioned below.

--->Paul

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Ol Chief

04-17-2004 20:32:42




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 Re: Combination Cat I and Cat II 3pt lift arms in reply to Tipton, IND, 04-17-2004 19:10:30  
TSC and just about all dealers have adapter bushings for that upper forging.Very inexpensive.I must admit that I am a bit foggy as to your precise problem but there are all sorts of bushings available for a variety of problems.When you went from the top forgihg to 32" lift arms I got lost. Sorry. Post back if your problem continues.



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paul

04-18-2004 04:46:28




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 Re: Re: Combination Cat I and Cat II 3pt lift arms in reply to Ol Chief, 04-17-2004 20:32:42  
The lower pins on his plow are cat2. His tractor has cat1 balls. You can't bush in that direction. :) :)

It's not practical for him to change the plow down to cat1, as it is not just bolt-on pins, but a big forged bar.

So, he needs to figure out a way to change his tractor.

Some tractors have balls with both 1 & 2 holes in them. I don't know how practical it is to find or adapt such lower lift arms to your tractor.

--->Paul

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OL Chief

04-18-2004 19:11:53




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 Re: Re: Re: Combination Cat I and Cat II 3pt lift in reply to paul, 04-18-2004 04:46:28  
Sorry;I think I was confused about terminology.At any rate ,I have a cat.1 mounted disc that I wanted to pull with a cat.2 tractor.I could not bush down successfully because the welded on cat. 1 pins were to short to accomidate the the width of cat.2 balls and allow the flip over hitch pins to enter the holes. I fabricated two heavy adapter brackets fitted with cat.2 pins and welded them on above the original hitch so now I can use either cat. I haven't seen this plow in question so do not know if this may be a pratical solution.In this case adding cat.1 adapters would need to be moved inboard if any of this makes sense.

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