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Implement Alley Discussion Forum

Equipment for Straw

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Ryan

02-26-2004 06:47:40




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I have it in my head when I buy a lottery ticket about once a week that I would like to do the following and I was wondering what equipment you think would be the best to use? I would like to raise wheat, cutting it with a stripper head. Then I would like to come back with sickle bar mowers followed by a rake. I would then square bale the straw. I have heard about something called an accumulator but I don't know what this is? The man that told me about it said he then loaded them with a skid steer a few bales at a time and never hardly touched them, claimed it was more effiecient than bale wagons? Keep in mind this is a dream for now, perhaps in the 10 year plan. My questions are: What would a stripper head cost? Is the sickle mowers the best way to mow the straw down fast and keep it in decent shape? Who makes a good sickle mower? I was thinking around 9 feet or so? I have read some of the other posts on rakes, and I gather than wheel rake is not desirable in straw, so is a bar rake the way to go? Finally what size of NH baler (model numbers) should I look for? Efficiency and timeliness would be critcal factors as I would double crop soybeans right after. My dream is to do about 300 acres of wheat/bale some day. All comments suggestions welcome. I know next to nothing about wheat, I live in south-west Ohio.

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Bill Smith

02-26-2004 10:16:12




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 Re: Equipment for Straw in reply to Ryan, 02-26-2004 06:47:40  
Best way to bale straw is to take the straw chopper off of combine (this scatters the straw behind the combine if you are not baling). Without the straw chopper on the combine, the straw will just fall out of combine in a row ready to be baled. Cut wheat off short with combine to get more straw. The only problem with that is you will get a big wide windrow (to big for the little square baler I got). I just go along with side delivery rake and split the big windrow in half if they are to big. An accumulater is a contraption that goes on behind the baler and accumulates about 8 bales or so and dumps them off in a pile. If it works right you can come along and load those clusters of bales on a wagon with a loader. I have mowed and raked straw after combine and straw chopper, but that is not the best way to go. Straw gets pretty chopped and cut up, and then you get alot of dust and dirt in the straw when you rake it. Ends up being pretty low quality straw once you get it in the bale. After you get it baled, you got to have a use or market for it. The big livestock boys are just going to buy large round or sqaure bales. Other people are only going to want to buy small qauntities of small squares. A few hundred would be alot to go to the same guy if selling. If somebody is an outlet for selling small square bales, they aren't going to pay much because they are making there money at re-selling them and are going to want to buy in large quantities (semi load). Wire tied will sell better than twine tied. Small squares ussually don't bring much per bale (50 cents a bale at times). It seems like I have bought straw bales out of the feild for a dime or quarter a piece. Alot of people that buy will exspect delivery. They ussually will want to pay you by the mile, but then will exspect you to unload and put them in the barn when you get there. Hope this is helpful. P.S. If double cropping beans after wheat, you will want to plant/no till drill the beans ASAP after the wheat is cut.

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Ryan

02-26-2004 13:06:59




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 Re: Re: Equipment for Straw in reply to Bill Smith, 02-26-2004 10:16:12  
My thinking of using a stripper head revolved around the fact that are current (new) combine is a rotor. I have heard that you do not want to run the straw through a rotor because of its damaging effects. I am not set of small bales, I was only thinking this because a neighbor sells his to Kentucky (an hour away). This year straw was quite valuable, (2.00 a bale)but I am not bent on small bales. I have not looked into the larger square and round bales, I did not realize there was a greater market for them. I thank you for your helpful insights.

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Bill Smith

02-27-2004 12:07:00




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 Re: Re: Re: Equipment for Straw in reply to Ryan, 02-26-2004 13:06:59  
Is what I meant by big livestock operaters (cattle, hog producers) wanting only big bales, is they handle such large quantity's that they don't fart around with little squares. You'll get more money out of your straw in the form of little squares as long as you can get it sold. You are just going to have to have quit a few customers to get rid of several thousand bales, when people with a traditional barn yard, garden mulchers, and trailor house winterizers are only going to want to buy probably less than 100 bales and not annually. You will take a pretty good price hit if in big bales. They ussually sale that by the ton.

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greenbeanman

02-26-2004 08:32:56




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 Re: Equipment for Straw in reply to Ryan, 02-26-2004 06:47:40  
Crop residue--tons per acre.
I don't have a book in front of me that tells tons per acre of wheat crop residue. A Google search shows a couple of sites that mention 6,000 pound and 8,000.

Let's play around with the 6,000 pound figure. Assuming each small square bale will weigh 60 pounds, that is 100 per acre, multiplied by your 300 acres, equals 30,000 bales. While you may not have to handle them picking them up with a skid steer loader, once they are one the loader what do you do with them?

A trailer or truck bed? They are going to have to be stacked on either. Also they will have to be placed into a stack or shed. Hand labor involved there without a bale wagon.

Let's assume that it takes 10 seconds per bale to remove it from the conveyance and to place it in a stack. Those 300,000 seconds turn into 5,000 minutes or 83 hours. Handling bales all day long is tiring. Let's assume 10 hour days. That is 8+ days of nothing but stacking the bales if you have no intruptions and those bringing the bales to you can keep up.

Cutting 300 acres, which is 13,068,000 square feet of land with a 9 foot mower will take a while too.

While I applaud your dream and know that you could make it work, it will take timing and effort on your part. You would want to get the beans planted as soon as the wheat is off, so you might need to think bigger is better in this case.

Like Rick asked, can you develop or do you have a market for 30,000 bales?

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Ryan

02-26-2004 13:23:39




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 Re: Re: Equipment for Straw in reply to greenbeanman, 02-26-2004 08:32:56  
I forgot to mention that prior to such an endeavor I would construct a steel building, 180x90x16 from a frame we have now and adding leans to each side. I was estimating approximately 26,000 bales, which I figured would roughly fill the building except the eves. I was hoping of apply the same principle of holding grain on the farm in finding a market. I do not know of specific places except that alot of the local straw sold in any kind of quanity goes to Kentucky, followed by local landscaping and individual horse owners. I was hoping that a pair of 9ft cycle mowers ran soon after the combine would be able to keep up? I am figuring a labor pool of 3-5 people. One in the combine, 2 running sickles, possibly one more to keep the grain away. I had not accumulated enough information for the figuring that you did on time of handling, for that I am grateful. I do not know much about accumulators so I wasn't sure if the bales had to be handled from the skid steer or loader to the wagon. Am I correct in assuming that they have to be handled? As far as moving the bales from field to storage I have contemplated two scenarios. One would be bale wagon(s), the other being the use of an accumulator/loader configuration. The building would be located on the central part of the farm, no more than 3 miles from any potential field. I was hoping that with a stripper head the combine could get close to 100 acres a day, this is an optimistic estimate but the fields are more conducive for it. If the accumulator method would work I would try and utilize 6 wagons, and at least one goosneck trailer. It sounds like bale wagons would be the less intensive, at least to begin with. I was hoping to run at least one, if not a pair of no-till drills at night. How would this scenario change with round bales or large square bales? Any ideas about efficiency between the two?

thank you
Ryan

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Tim(nj)

02-26-2004 16:04:19




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 Re: Re: Re: Equipment for Straw in reply to Ryan, 02-26-2004 13:23:39  
An accumulator will drop rectangular groups of bales around the field. The one I saw does groups of 18, 3 rows of 6. The attachment on the skid loader is sized to pick up these groups. You stack the groups on the flat trailer with the skid loader attachment. Then you use said attachment to take the bales off and stack them in the shed. You're trading labor cost for machinery cost. BTW, wheat straw is selling for $3.00 a bale here in New Jersey. And wire bales are worth less than twine bales here. Many landscapers use straw in their grass seeder machines and they do not want to chance having wire anywhere near the blades. Horse people here don't like wire, either. Can you double crop after wheat where you live? Here, wheat won't come off until July 4 or so, and it's too late to plant beans.

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Ryan

02-27-2004 06:21:01




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Equipment for Straw in reply to Tim(nj), 02-26-2004 16:04:19  
We live an hour south of Interstate 70 which is considered here in Ohio as the break between double cropping. Last year I entire crop was planted in 5 days and I believe it was after July 1st when we finshed due to the weather. We think they managed around 40 with no-till. If I could not double crop then it would not pencil out at all on paper, even then it requires good wheat, (70 or better) and income from the straw. I am looking for an alternative to just soy after soy and I was thinking that this would be easier to get into financially then corn. However, not all of our ground is suitable for wheat.

Ryan

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Indydirtfarmer

02-26-2004 16:36:20




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Equipment for Straw in reply to Tim(nj), 02-26-2004 16:04:19  
I have a Steffan bale accumulator, and grapple. I use it behind a Deere 336 baler, when baling straw. The grapple is on a Deere 146 loader, on a 4020. It works a bunch better than hand work. I bale about 7500+ straw bales a year. I have a couple good customers (Lanndscape contractors) that buy most of my straw. We bale right behind the combine. Then get it out of the field as fast as possible. Then we drill soybeans. The double crop beans usually end up averaging about 1/2 to 2/3rds of the "early beans". With a good, fast way of handling the straw, and a good market, (@ $3.00 a bale) I still don't get rich. The accumulator saves labor cost and time, but it wasn't cheap. Twine, fuel, storage, time/labor, and hauling eat into what I make from it. Straw is just another one of the parts to the big puzzle that makes up farming. It brings in a small income, but certainly not enough to be a "stand-alone" business. Like tobacco used to be for us, straw was once a big money maker. JMHO, John

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Rick

02-26-2004 07:49:30




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 Re: Equipment for Straw in reply to Ryan, 02-26-2004 06:47:40  
First of all do you have outlet for straw. I presume you are talking small square. Just combine it with regular platform,cut real close to ground,bale behind combine. I have been doing it for close to 15 years. I use accumulator grapple system. forget the mower and if the weather holds you don't need to rake either. I use wheel rake,to me only way to go period. what are you going to do with wheat? give me call 319-257-6764 or e-mail. I have done the double crop too. Rick

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Ryan

02-26-2004 13:30:21




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 Re: Re: Equipment for Straw in reply to Rick, 02-26-2004 07:49:30  
I am thinking that I will be using a rotor combine, that is why I was figuring on having to mow it to keep long straw. So wheel rakes are better than the other types of rakes? Wheat would go in the bin, storage is not a problem, but the elevator wants it usually in August so they can get rid of it before new crop stuff comes in. I posted a response above, I was hoping to store the straw. Alot of the local straw goes to Kentucky, locally to local horse people or landscaping buisineses. Thank you for the information and I may be calling you for answers/opinions that don't get addressed here.

Ryan

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Rick

02-26-2004 15:01:32




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 Re: Re: Re: Equipment for Straw in reply to Ryan, 02-26-2004 13:30:21  
Ryan; Rick again. I hate to burst your bubble but I get $2.50 bale right out of field,prices go up from there. Rotor combines you can bale it with no problem the only disadvantage is you will end up with about half the bales or selling product. Example last season 60 acres roto combine yield 2500 bales,came home did my 22 acres regular combine yielded 2148 bales that was on pure sand ground. In your situation you would probably be ahead to large round it then rebale in smalll squares. Either way if you are shipping it that far and still only getting $2.00 bale its hardly worth it no offense. If you use grapple system I don't touch a bale period. let me know. I can also give you reference who work with or see me doing it if you feel like I am blowing smoke. I also have some on video. Make sure you have a paying market.

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Ryan

02-27-2004 06:23:16




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Equipment for Straw in reply to Rick, 02-26-2004 15:01:32  
Any idea what stripper heads run? Do you notice differences in your soil analysis where you have had soybeans and where you had wheat followed by soybeans? I was thinking that wheat would help the soil but perhaps removing the straw would leave it worse off. Any ideas?

Ryan



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Ryan

02-27-2004 06:15:27




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Equipment for Straw in reply to Rick, 02-26-2004 15:01:32  
My neighbor got 2.00 a bale plus .20 a bale for holding it. They came and picked it up although I think they helped load it. Does 2.00 sound more reasonable if you are not hauling it? I am thinking that if one were to do the large round bales then he could move them out of the way to drill faster. However, I would be purchasing an extra baler but saving money on labor, and handling equipment.

Ryan

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Rick

02-26-2004 14:46:19




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 Re: Re: Re: Equipment for Straw in reply to Ryan, 02-26-2004 13:30:21  
I would not use the rotor combine if you have choice. It would eliminate the extra trip mowing. I don't usually rake at all. I combine it right in the combine windrow when you take chopper and spreader off. I have baled behind 15ft up to 25ft heads so far. I don't do wheat it does not make enough straw per acre and it is my worst seller for straw. No eye appeal. I do the other two grains for straw and can get more for the seed also. Let me know,the rakes I just prefer the inline wheel rakes the best,for me. ps in my area you have about 7 days to sell wheat to put on barge or you are stuck with it till following year. Elevators don't want the stuff in my area.

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