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Implement Alley Discussion Forum

Hay Rake Questions

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Gdog

02-15-2004 20:00:22

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What are the pro's and con's of ground vs. PTO driven rakes? What's the purpose of a dolly wheel? Thanks, Gdog

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Bill Smith

02-17-2004 12:14:39

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Re: Hay Rake Questions in reply to Gdog , 02-15-2004 20:00:22

The pros of a P.T.O. driven rake would be that it would allow you a variable speed on how fast the rake spins. Ground driven rake speed is a set speed, the faster you drive the faster it spins (so many revolutions per wheel travel distance). Dolly wheel's carry the front end weight of the rake, and allows for a little sharper turning. These are easier to hook up, and don't require a stand or jack when hooking and unhooking. As mentioned below, dolly wheel's create more tire tracks on unraked hay.

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Gary in TX

02-18-2004 00:06:51

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Re: Re: Hay Rake Questions in reply to Bill Smith, 02-17-2004 12:14:39

Bill,
I have a question for you. How can dolly wheels leave tire tracks on unraked hay when the hay gets raked right behind them???

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Bill Smith

02-18-2004 11:44:30

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Re: Re: Re: Hay Rake Questions in reply to Gary in TX, 02-18-2004 00:06:51

Let me first just clearify to make sure we are on the same page. He mentioned dolly wheel in his original post. I assume that he,as well as you are talking about the dolly wheel's that are on the front of newer styled ground driven pull type rakes. The older styled rakes didn't have these, just a jack or stand to set the rake on when unhooked. When using a rake with front dolly wheels, the tractor tires and the front dolly wheels of rake run over hay that has not been raked yet (unraked hay). When raking grass hay (brome, prairy) it doesn't make any difference. When raking alfalfa when it is just a touch to dry, you can knock leaves off just by driving on it. Of coarse raking it at that point, knocks additional leaves off. The leaves is where all the protien is, in alfalfa. The dolly wheel's create an extra set of tracks running over the hay. Of coarse, if using a trycicle tractor the dolly wheel's of rack will ruffly run the same track as front tires of tractor. I mow/rake my hay. Don't always have the time to get the alfalfa raked before it gets to dry. That's when the leaves will start coming off. Alfalfa that is to dry will tuffin back up when it gets damp at night. The leaves won't come off then, but you don't want to rake it when it is to wet (got to much dew on it). Ussually bail it in the morning when the dew is dried off but alfalfa still tuff. Sometimes you only got a 1 hour window to bail in the morning between to wet and to dry. Bailing it is not the problem, it is raking it and getting it into the windrow keeping all the leaves on it, which if using a sigle side delivery rake takes twice as long as bailing it. Alfalfa opens up a hole nother can of worms compared to grass hay. Swathing the alfalfa would probably be the way to go, but mowing and raking it is alot better during a wet season. Just trying to avoid having 2 rounds of equipment here. Weel anyways, there you go. Hope ya understand.

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Gary in TX

02-18-2004 16:33:10

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Hay Rake Questions in reply to Bill Smith, 02-18-2004 11:44:30

Got ya! Didn't know you were talking bout the dreaded Alfalfa. I never have messed with any of that and from what I hear about the horrors of baling and spraying and all on it I don't want too. This is strickly my opinion for myself. I know its good hay but just too much trouble to work with for me. I have more than enough bermuda, johnson grass bluestem and other hay to do for my customers anyhow. Have a good un!

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Gary in TX

02-16-2004 08:14:27

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Re: Hay Rake Questions in reply to Gdog , 02-15-2004 20:00:22

GDog,
Looks like your getting answers to some questions you didn't even ask as far as the hydraulic drive rakes. I have run 2 New Holland 56 ground drive rakes for, well this coming hay season will be 10 years and I had one of them longer than that.
I do wish they had dolly wheels on them, it would make it much easier to move them around when they were not on the twin rake hitch I built. Have one with all the tine bars off of it doing a complete bearing change out and will get a fresh coat of paint in the process. as well. Think I'll paint the other rake too as well as the hitch, that aught to shake up my competition, they will think I got new rakes over the winter. Bunch of whinning cry babies, they are. As far as the pto drive rakes go, I am assuming your talking about the 3pt. mounted pto drive rakes. Never run one but I personally don't think I would like it, they have to be ok or else they would have quit making them though.
As far as wheel rakes, well I had a 3pt 4 or 5 wheel one time that I didn't like, but I'm fixin to get a 7 wheel drag type, they would be better to use in milo or corn stalk hay in that the wheels would dip down between the rows with less damage that running a rolobar rake. One thing I have heard and this is from a friend who has a wheel rake, is that you get alot of dirt in your hay as well as it really cleans the ground. I used a V type wheel rake one summer on one field and turned out I kinda liked it but the down fall of it is too me that if your in a thin field it would take forever to get some good sized windrows, as opposed to running any kind of rake throwing the hay to either the left or the right and not to the middle as a V rake system does.

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Hay Dr

02-16-2004 18:00:18

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Re: Re: Hay Rake Questions in reply to Gary in TX, 02-16-2004 08:14:27

If you can not get a windrow in a 20' pass you don't have any hay to harvest. Use some fertilizer and or irrigate your hay field.

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Gary in TX

02-17-2004 07:07:21

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Re: Re: Re: Hay Rake Questions in reply to Hay Dr, 02-16-2004 18:00:18

Hay Dr.,
Thanks for the insight but unfortunatly your not telling me anything new. My statement was meant on a general term that not all hay fields produce 5 or 6 rolls per acre. Sometimes in our area we have thin cuttings, we have to cut anything we can get sometimes and we do not have the luxury of irrigation here. Many of my customers don't fertilize either. Sometimes it gets pretty dry in the summer here in north Texas. Being a custom operator it does get frustrating when we see some of those shy of what they should make fields but I don't count out the little guy who needs his hay done too. I just wasn't brought up that way. Baling costs and a bale or two per acre minimum offset shy fields.

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Hay Dr

02-16-2004 04:57:09

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Re: Hay Rake Questions in reply to Gdog , 02-15-2004 20:00:22

Get you a pull type V-Wheel rake it will save you time. It rakes 10-20 acres an hour. You will waste a day or raking with a NH256, and the rains will come while you are raking and could have been baling if you used the V-Rake. The NH256 is a good rake but the technology has passed it now.

Vermeer V-Rakes

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Gary in TX

02-18-2004 00:15:34

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Re: Re: Hay Rake Questions in reply to Hay Dr, 02-16-2004 04:57:09

Hay Hay DR,
Just reread your post and I have to disagree with you on technology passing the New Holland 256 or any other rollabar rake by. I'm not knocking any rake or am I tryint to shoot down your apparent liking to the wheel rakes. IN fact I"m getting ready to get a wheel rake myself, its a used on but the from what I've seen of it so far it looks pretty good.
Your also speaking of the speed of raking and only stating that a person might have one 256 or 56 or whatever running. I run 2 New Holland 56 rakes right now and they have been real workhorses, in fact we are completely going through the first one I bought this year and I've been running it since 1988 or 1989 on the same bearings that were in it. I can hardly wait to see it fresh out of the shop with a fresh coat of paint and new tires, bearings, and whatever teeth its needing. I have a hydraulic rake hitch, kinda like New Hollands that I built to run them and we can cover some major ground in a days time with them. No disrespect intended and hope none taken.

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paul

02-16-2004 11:06:20

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Re: Re: Hay Rake Questions in reply to Hay Dr, 02-16-2004 04:57:09

I'll have to disagree with you based on the farm auctions in _my_ area. ;)

--->Paul

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Hay Dr

02-16-2004 18:08:38

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Re: Re: Re: Hay Rake Questions in reply to paul, 02-16-2004 11:06:20

The key to raking hay is getting the hay raked as quick as possible with as little damage to the crop matter as possible so the hay can be baled at to optimum time. Hay that got rained on because you wasted time raking hay all day instead of baling it, is not optimum. The V wheel rakes are the most economical rakes for saving time.

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paul

02-16-2004 20:53:04

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Hay Rake Questions in reply to Hay Dr, 02-16-2004 18:08:38

As always, you are right for _some_ operations, but there is always more than one factor in deciding true efficeincy, and you are only focused on one - perhaps the most important in _your_ area.

I won't bog down the discussion in a pointless debate, but things like leaf-loss, adding dirt to the windrow, manuverability, and other factors can make other rakes 'better' for different locations & situations.

--->Paul

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Hay Dr

02-17-2004 05:28:56

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hay Rake Questions in reply to paul, 02-16-2004 20:53:04

There is no question that the wheel rakes will rake small sticks up into the windrow but if the rake is raking dirt, it is not set properly. Bar rakes and wheel rake have about the same leaf loss. The key to leaf loss is to rake legume crops with a little moisture in them. The NH256 takes so much time that the conditions change during the extended time of the NH256. If you want a bar rake then the Vermeer hydraulically driven twin rakes are the best. They will last a lifetime.

Vermeer Twin Rakes

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Dave H (MI)

02-16-2004 08:11:11

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Re: Re: Hay Rake Questions in reply to Hay Dr, 02-16-2004 04:57:09

Doesn't this site specialize in stuff technology has passed by? :-)

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02-15-2004 22:48:02

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Re: Hay Rake Questions in reply to Gdog , 02-15-2004 20:00:22

I agree 100% with the post below.
Wheel driven is the only way to go in my opinion.
Along with the comments below, if a rainstorm is heading your way and your rake tractor breaks down, you can always finish up with your pickup.
Had to do that once. Wasn't the best, but it got the job done!

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scotty

02-15-2004 21:59:13

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Re: Hay Rake Questions in reply to Gdog , 02-15-2004 20:00:22

In my opinion the ground drive is the best!!! My reasoning is that a normal size rake (ex: NH 256/258 8.5, & 9.5 feet) can be pulled by a very small horsepower tractor with great sucess even on steep hills! If You have say a 50hp+ tractor You can run at a higher gear, & low RPM, with less wear, & tear on the tractor. If You run at a low RPM with Hydraulics You run into heating problems on older tractors unless You have special cooling Equipment installed, & it will still happen at the full load RPM without the special equipment! I use a hydraulic auger mounted on a gravity bed wagon to fill a 6 row JD 7000 planter after 10 minutes of use with a IH 1486 tractor running at idle I have burnt my hands on the hydraulic hoses I cant imagine what would happen after an hour of running a hayrake!!! I dont beleive the 1486 has cooling equipment on it!
The dolly wheel is easier to hook up to than one without; BUT the dolly tires knock the leaves off of some types of hay! My father was very adament about not running over hay. We had a JD 60 2cyl with narrow front end that he never used to mow, or rake hay unless his IH 666 with wide front was broke down

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younghayer

02-16-2004 06:34:41

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Re: Re: Hay Rake Questions in reply to scotty, 02-15-2004 21:59:13

Not sure if that hyraulic problem is as widespread as what you make it sound. I have run a '53 JD 70 WF on my hydraulic hay rake near idle all day long and not had a problem, and I know there isn't any cooling system there. The line may be a little warm but thats it, anything that is run all day will be a little warm. After using it, I don't think I would ever get a ground driven rake other than another wheel rake again. There is so much variance with hydraulics. If you are in heavy hay, you can still rake well, because you aren't slowing the rake down with the tractor. In light hay just speed up. You can also use hydraulic rakes to tedder with if you needed too, just switch the lines and run the rake backwards. Even after saying all this, it is true that nothing can beat a wheel rake for efficiency, for what you are going to pay for a NH bar rake you can get a good wheel rake for the same or less.

younghayer

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cannonball

02-17-2004 05:17:26

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Re: Re: Re: Hay Rake Questions in reply to younghayer, 02-16-2004 06:34:41

some hyd rakes you cannot reverse hyd lines have 2 twin v rakes and you don't reverse them...have nice day may god bless

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