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Implement Alley Discussion Forum

Bailer Knot Trouble

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Matt

01-12-2004 12:13:54




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I have a NH 273 bailer. I am having trouble with the right knotter. It doesn't always cut or release the knot, then breaks the next bail. Any ideas? Is this a knife problem or a timing problem, or both? I have used poly twine, 9000 twine, and 16000 twine, none seem to make a difference.




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Mike

01-18-2004 10:20:17




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 Re: Bailer Knot Trouble in reply to Matt, 01-12-2004 12:13:54  
check to make sure the wipper arm "rubs" across the bill hook during the tie cycle. By undoing the sigle lower knotter mounting bolt you can rotate the kotter assembly upwards and watch the wiper arm move across the bill hook. They make a special bar to bend the wiper arm to adjust or you can carefully hit the bottom of the wiper arm with a hammer to adjust the clearance to the bill hook. You want the wiper arm to just rub across the bill hook. Your best bet from the other responses is to get a manual and go through all the knotter adjustments

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mike

01-14-2004 11:28:52




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 Re: Bailer Knot Trouble in reply to Matt, 01-12-2004 12:13:54  
Matt, I have a 275 and have had some of the same trouble. Make sure your hay is good and cured. Damp hay will not allow the string to slide around the bale and the string will pull out of the twine holder. When it tries to tie the string will be loose and the knife arm can't push it off. Also check to make sure you have a little tension on the twine clip at the twine box. Don't add to much or the other side will start to miss. Good luck. Let me know if you find something else that works.

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Sid

01-12-2004 19:07:02




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 Re: Bailer Knot Trouble in reply to Matt, 01-12-2004 12:13:54  
Have you tried letting up on the tension a couple of turns?



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haycreek

01-12-2004 17:35:32




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 Re: Bailer Knot Trouble in reply to Matt, 01-12-2004 12:13:54  
I have a service manual just on the knotter for the New Holland, If interested will send to you make a copy send back to me



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Bernie in MA

01-12-2004 16:41:11




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 Re: Bailer Knot Trouble in reply to Matt, 01-12-2004 12:13:54  
I have a JD24T and had the same trouble. The tucker blade/finger was out of adjustment, pushing the twine over either too far or not far enough. I can't remember. That was all that ailed it. Watch the good side while you turn it over slow. If there is a lot of slop it might be a good idea to replace some parts.



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Bob H nw Oh

01-12-2004 15:34:39




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 Re: Bailer Knot Trouble in reply to Matt, 01-12-2004 12:13:54  
Matt,try releasing tension on the bill hook,also make sure the bill hook is smooth where it grips the twine,HTH,Bob.



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Dave H (MI)

01-12-2004 13:59:29




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 Re: Bailer Knot Trouble in reply to Matt, 01-12-2004 12:13:54  
Seriously Matt, a good manual is worth it's weight in hay.



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Matt K

01-12-2004 13:54:13




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 Re: Bailer Knot Trouble in reply to Matt, 01-12-2004 12:13:54  
I had this problem with a NH baler, the problem is probably the knife on the knotter arm. On mine the tip of the knife was broken/worn off, causing it to not fully cut the twine. Sisal would work most of the time, since the part that didn't get cut would break, with plastic the twine wouldn't break and would pull the knot apart. I replaced the whole knotter arm (about $200, I think), and that cured it.

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Kelly C

01-12-2004 19:23:13




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 Re: Re: Bailer Knot Trouble in reply to Matt K, 01-12-2004 13:54:13  
third party image

I got knife arm for $55.17 and the bill hook for $38.50 this summer from New Holland dealer. Hope the prices keep going down.



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JMS/MN

01-12-2004 12:57:03




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 Re: Bailer Knot Trouble in reply to Matt, 01-12-2004 12:13:54  
You might need to replace the bill hook on that side. Best bet is to get the manual for that baler- has pix of good and bad knots and their cause. 16000 twine is for round balers, not square balers. Too thin for square bales. 7000 is a better bet for squares- fewer feet than 9000, but thicker and stronger. Number refers to FEET in a ball, not tensile strength. If you want to run poly or sisal, get the bill hook for poly- it will run both.

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Matt

01-12-2004 13:09:06




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 Re: Re: Bailer Knot Trouble in reply to JMS/MN, 01-12-2004 12:57:03  
The bailer ran great for the first two cutting last summer, and started getting worse as we went, and the third cutting was breaking about every 3rd bail because of the right knotter.



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paul

01-12-2004 15:28:22




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 Re: Re: Re: Bailer Knot Trouble in reply to Matt, 01-12-2004 13:09:06  
I don't mean to be funny - but you did grease it? It's important on a baler.

--->Paul



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JMS/MN

01-12-2004 13:47:09




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 Re: Re: Re: Bailer Knot Trouble in reply to Matt, 01-12-2004 13:09:06  
It could still be that the knot is hanging up on the bill hook on that side- among other problems, such as a dull knife, bad tucker finger, etc. The book with its pictures is an excellent source to use to diagnose the problem and correct it. The problem sounds much like what my used 268 did when I bought it in 1974. Cost about $100 to fix it and the other side acted up about 15 years later. Same problem and fix. Also, if you've messed with the knotters and bolted them back down-remember that the attaching bolt should not be tight- that is why it has a LOCKING nut on it. The casting holding the knotter should be loose on that bolt- some people replace the nut with a regular nut and lockwasher, lock everything down tight and can't understand why the knotter does not work. It needs a bit of freeplay.

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Kelly C

01-12-2004 19:20:05




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Bailer Knot Trouble in reply to JMS/MN, 01-12-2004 13:47:09  
Hmmm. I did not know this. Thanks



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Duane(Pa)

01-13-2004 18:03:15




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bailer Knot Trouble in reply to Kelly C, 01-12-2004 19:20:05  
Yep, some of the newer models have a drilled pin/hitchpin clip arrangement that gives some looseness to the connection. I have had all manner of hanging knot trouble through the years, and the cause can be most anything. Having said that, I have a Very Old, Very Experienced, Used to be a New Holland Dealer, FRIEND. And he says that more Knotter troubles are caused by miss adjusted twine fingers than anything else. This guy is sharp as a tack. I would check the twine finger adjustment on top of the bale case FIRST, then work up through the knotter itself. I love knotters and think they are about the coolest contraption around a farm. I say that now, with the hay in the mow, and me sitting here at the computer. I may say some thing else in june with the black clouds boiling in the West and me up to my elbows in chaf and grease and a big ol' birds nest on the billhook!

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paul

01-12-2004 21:19:24




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bailer Knot Trouble in reply to Kelly C, 01-12-2004 19:20:05  
Yea, dad had those 2 nuts loose on the baler, asked him about that when I was little - he said it works better that way.

--->Paul



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Kelly C

01-13-2004 06:11:17




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bailer Knot Trouble in reply to paul, 01-12-2004 21:19:24  
I will have to make sure those are some what loose next year.
As soon as I get done putting my 400 back together. I have to spend some quality time with my NH68.
Going to put a new Knotter on the right side. Have a new knife for the bale chamber and do some fixing on the rails were the plunger slides.
Real minor stuff compared to last winter :-)
Then its time to take apart my NH55 rake. Grease the bearings on the spider and paint her a nice NH red.
Fix some wood on one of my racks.
Give some lovin to my IH241 baler.
Maybe look at my NH268.
Fix my Fast hitch plow.
Then just maybe work on my Farmall 300.
Whew going to be another busy winter

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JMS/MN

01-12-2004 22:37:52




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bailer Knot Trouble in reply to paul, 01-12-2004 21:19:24  
Paul, I got a kick out of that- simple answer, but very concise- might not find it in the book in such a direct way, but it still holds true. Value of the continuity of generations.



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Matt

01-12-2004 13:04:04




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 Re: Re: Bailer Knot Trouble in reply to JMS/MN, 01-12-2004 12:57:03  
The bailer ran great for the first two cutting last summer, and started getting worse as we went, and the third cutting was breaking about every 3rd bail because of the right knotter.



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paul

01-12-2004 12:46:10




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 Re: Bailer Knot Trouble in reply to Matt, 01-12-2004 12:13:54  
9000 sisal would be the easiest to work with _most_ of the time, 16,000 is too thin for most small squares as I know them.

Doesn't help much with your problem tho, sorry. Shouldn't be a timing issue, that breaks bolts or needles - should be in the twine cutter area.

--->Paul



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Darryl Polak

01-12-2004 16:31:45




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 Re: Re: Bailer Knot Trouble in reply to paul, 01-12-2004 12:46:10  

bill hook shaft is bent where it goes in gear you need to replace both and the tension bolt you should see about two threads showing



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