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Implement Alley Discussion Forum

Sudan Grass ?

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Fern(Mi)

01-10-2004 18:50:04

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How does one go about cutting, windrowing, and round baleing for wraping Sudan Grass, Corn, Sorgum, and other maybe substances for livestock feed??? I've got an idea I'll be experimentally trying about five acres this summer.
I've also figured an early planting would help break some fallow ground, making an alphafa plant easier in August.
Much abliged!
Fern

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wolfy

01-11-2004 18:30:52

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Re: Sudan Grass ? in reply to Fern(Mi), 01-10-2004 18:50:04

The trick to cutting it - especially if it gets too tall - is to go FAST. The rolls of the haybine or discbine get a hold of the heads before the knife cuts it. The old 460 would cut it with ease in 4th high torque- about 7.5 mph & not quite full throttle. But low gear would have slip clutch slipping. Used old 9 ft NH haybine then. Set rolls pretty tight. Need to ted it next day. It would dry down in 3-4 Pennsylvania summer days for dry baling.

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Cliff Neubauer

01-11-2004 17:25:04

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Re: Sudan Grass ? in reply to Fern(Mi), 01-10-2004 18:50:04

We have planted sorghum/sadan grass a couple of times. The first year we had a wet spring and planted it in place of corn on about 25 acres. We had planned to take 2-3 crops off of it but got busy so it ended up getting 10-12' tall before we got it mowed down. We rented a 12' JD disk mower conditioner with a flail conditioner to mow it with and with a 150 hp tractor on it you could only mow about 4 mph because it was so thick and tall. We let that stuff lay for about 3 days then chopped it for silage. Last year we planted another 15 or so acres of it, most of it we pastured and the rest we mowed with a mower/conditioner and after about a week of dry hot weather we were able to round bale it. Pasturing it during the summer actually worked the best (if you need feed then instead of during the winter) and the cows loved it, I've never seen cows come running to feed like they would when you opened the gate to that field of SS grass.

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DEM66

01-11-2004 14:09:59

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Re: Sudan Grass ? in reply to Fern(Mi), 01-10-2004 18:50:04

Is there any differance between Sudan Grass and Sorghum/Sudan. I don't know how you guys are getting it to dry down in 4 days. I don't know anybody in this area (Western Nebraska) who has baled it (Sorghum/Sudan) any sooner than 10 days. It takes awhile for those stems to dry.

Dan

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kyhayman

01-11-2004 16:18:43

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Re: Re: Sudan Grass ? in reply to DEM66, 01-11-2004 14:09:59

Sorgum/sudan hybrids are supposed to be high yielding, faster regrowing, and higher energy than sudan alone. I've planted both and didnt really like either one (before round bale silage wrappers came out). With wrapping I've only tried the sudex. I can barely get 4 days w/o rain much less 10.

(Now) I'm making a huge guess here, as western Nebraska is pretty arid (I was there about 4-5 years ago and it sure looked dry to me) and central Kentucky is pretty temperate (48" annual rainfall) I suspect that we cut it much shorter than you do. Shorter means much less stem and consequently faster dry down.

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DEM66

01-11-2004 16:37:58

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Re: Re: Re: Sudan Grass ? in reply to kyhayman, 01-11-2004 16:18:43

Yes you are right we get about 15" annual rain fall. But we have been in a drought the last 3 years and have only gotten about 8"-9". We sell all the hay we put up mostly Orchard Grass/Alfalfa mix. We tried Sorghum/Sudan the past two years as a rotation but I don't think we will do it again. We are still sitting on last years crop and hope we will get it sold. Its tuff to sell it when cow hay is bringing $40/ton.

Dan

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Delbert

01-11-2004 06:16:32

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Re: Sudan Grass ? in reply to Fern(Mi), 01-10-2004 18:50:04

What fertilzer do you put on sudan grass? 18-46 or some other combo. I plant about 3 acres but never fertilized it. Another good product to plant is millet. Can be feed to horses cows like it makes good feed. Doesn,t grow quit as tall as sudan grass.

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Gary in TX

01-10-2004 21:09:51

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Re: Sudan Grass ? in reply to Fern(Mi), 01-10-2004 18:50:04

Fern,
I like to cut sudan when its between hip and chest high. You will get more leaves and less stem that way. You also cut your dry down time to 4 or 5 days or less depending on how hot it is. This past year I cut mine with a John Deere 2280 self propelled windrower with a 14' header and steel cond. rolls. I've cut it too with a 1380 Deere 14' hydroswing and 9' New Holland haybines. I'm hoping to add another 2280 this year for the upcoming hay season. We don't do any of the chopping and silage down here so I couldn't tell ya anything about that. I roll with a Deere 530 round baler.

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kyhayman

01-10-2004 21:05:11

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Re: Sudan Grass ? in reply to Fern(Mi), 01-10-2004 18:50:04

I think the key point is you mentioned wrapping. If you are talking about wrapping for round bale silage it will be no different than any other crop. Cut it in the early boot stage, preferable with something like a conditioner that will windrow it (trust me, you dont want a big windrow of the wet stuff) then roll it up the next day and wrap immediately. Cut down roll size, I wrap on 4x4 and fed one yesterday that I missed the tie and ran 4x5. Just for kicks and giggles we put it on the truck scale, 2050#. If you are making silage nitrates are much less of a concern. Just leave it at least a month in the tube. I never made decent silage when I used a silo except for corn. Working on a tube right now of 3rd cut alfalfa/timothy and it is the best silage I ever made for looks, color, and smell. Nutrition wise it is close to the hay made out of the same cutting (RFV is 5 points higher, mainly due to leaf retention). Grasses like sudean ensile better than legumes. If you can keep it from getting too dry and wrap immediately it's almost impossible to mess up.

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Hay Dr

01-11-2004 17:50:54

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Re: Re: Sudan Grass ? in reply to kyhayman, 01-10-2004 21:05:11

I agree, legumes are a little harder to make haylage because of a little higher calcium content in a legume. Some of the farmers claim that their cattle breed back faster on Alfalfa than Sudan grass. The key is mowing the Sudan grass at the correct time if you wait too long and it's 7' tall it's harder to bale and cure. Smaller farmers can have the haylage custom wrapped or rent a wrapper. The McHale 991B rents for $3 per bale and is the best of the individual wrappers. There are 4 in-line wrapper companies and they all have about the same features.

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DEM66

01-10-2004 20:16:24

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Re: Sudan Grass ? in reply to Fern(Mi), 01-10-2004 18:50:04

We grew Sorghum/Sudan the past two years on 40 acres. This is what we learned. Like John said plant it heavy at least 25#/acre. We tryed it two ways:
1) We let it get 9' - 10' tall and then took one cutting. The disadvantage to this was it was very difficult to cut (we used a JD2280 14' head w/conditioner rolls). Lower feed qaulity about 1/2 of option #2 (we take feed qaulity test on most our hay). It took a month to dry down.
2) We took 2 cuttings. Cut at 30" to 48". Disadvantage to this: It takes about 14 days to dry down and new growth will be considerable after first cutting and you will smash it down.

I think the best way to do it would be to green chop the first cutting and bale the second. Other thing to consider is whether you are going to feed it or sell it. Never feed to horses and always take nitrate tests on it. We didn't have any nitrate problems the 2 years we grew it. If hay prices are high you will probably be able to sell it we did good last year but can't hardly give it away this year. If you are going to feed it it can be good feed but you probably should come up with a ration with something else like alfalfa. This is all based on Western Nebraska.

Dan

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John A

01-10-2004 21:02:29

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Re: Re: Sudan Grass ? in reply to DEM66, 01-10-2004 20:16:24

Fern, I did forget....and Dan reminded me. Use a haybine or equivilent machine to cut/crimp it. Here in Central Texas, the dead of summer, dry down and bale is 3 to 4 days give or take on the humidity.
John A

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DEM66

01-10-2004 20:21:08

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Re: Re: Sudan Grass ? in reply to DEM66, 01-10-2004 20:16:24

One other thing. Be careful about fertilizing. Our nitrates were considerably higher the first year when we fertilized. The second year we didn't fertilize and grew it on the same ground and the nitrates were way low.

Dan

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John A

01-10-2004 19:41:05

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Re: Sudan Grass ? in reply to Fern(Mi), 01-10-2004 18:50:04

Fern, The only way I have found to keep sudan from getting stemmy, .....is to plant heavy. Have seen stems as big around as a quarter to 50 cent piece in diameter. hay thats this stemmy is only good for old cows, not younger cattle.Plant 20% over the rate on the bag. You must cut sudan while it is in the Boot stage. for max nutrients. an untimely rain at the boot stage, so cutting occurs two weeks late, can mean a dramatic loss of nutrients in the hay.
Varities like Evergreen, There is not a loss of nutrients for it keeps growing taller,bigger,more tonnage,with little to no loss of nutriction in the hay, if the cutting date must be postponed for some reason.
Sudan will respond very well to fertilizaton.
Most varities should not be fed to horses.
Hope this helps.
Later,
John A.

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Tim(nj)

01-10-2004 19:13:20

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Re: Sudan Grass ? in reply to Fern(Mi), 01-10-2004 18:50:04

Have to watch the sudan grass for nitrates during dry weather. Cut it at about 4' high, don't let it get real big and stalky. I've seen it done for baleage using a New Idea Cut/Ditioner (flail machine) to mow it and windrow it. Chops it up nice to cure and then bale, but takes a lot of power. A haybine or discbine will also cut it. Sudan is good at choking out weeds, but it likes warm soil to germinate so don't plant too early.

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