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square bale handling

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Seth

01-04-2004 17:04:36

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I was wondering what everone thought was the best way to handle small square bales? I have looked at NH automatic bale wagons, 8 bale accumulators, and bale throwers. I would like to know the pitfalls and benefts of each system. I current pull a rack behind the baler and pay high school kids to stack, but help is getting hard to find. Most people in my area handle bales same wat as I do.

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Rob

01-07-2004 05:51:14

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Re: square bale handling in reply to Seth, 01-04-2004 17:04:36

I ran a 570 NH with a 10 bale Hoelscher accumulator on it for a guy last summer. While it does work slick, it does have it's drawbacks. The fields around here are mostly small, with a lot of terraces. You have to be going straight and on fairly level ground when the accumulator dumps, or it will not dump correctly. Also it takes a lot of work to shuffle all of the equipment back and forth from the barn to the field when you are doing it by yourself. Tractor-baler, 2-3 pickups with gooseneck trailers, tractor with loader and grabber on it. It would work a whole lot better if you had at least 2 people helping you. I'm not saying these aren't good setups, I just wanted to give you a few drawbacks that I see.

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Shep VA

01-06-2004 13:57:50

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Re: square bale handling in reply to Seth, 01-04-2004 17:04:36

Ok, I will put my 2 cents in. This is the rig we bale with. The 1850 Oliver in front of a 320 NH baler with a pan thrower and we run 18foot Pequea hay wagons, 5 I think...

We pull our bales from a distance normally and we try not to put down more than 700 bales worth at a time so we can load all the wagons, haul home and unload the next morning or late that evening. We dont bale near what we used to as we round bale most all of the hay now, but we still do 3rd and 4th cutting alf and straw and some 2nd cutting Orchard grass.

We have too many hills for a bale wagon and put most of the hay in bank barns so no way to push the stacks off.

System works good for us, main thing is finding something that works good for your situation.

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Doug in IL.

01-06-2004 08:48:18

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Re: square bale handling in reply to Seth, 01-04-2004 17:04:36

I like the NH bale wagon best if the fields are not real far from the storage area. Bale wagons are a one man operation. The Farmhand system requires two loader tractors, two operators and two bale grabs to have any kind of efficiency. I had the Farmhand set up and sold it. The thrower system and the bale baskets require hand unloading and stacking. I think that pushing all those bales up the chute to a bale basket would put a lot of unwanted stress on the baler gearbox and plunger parts. The bale wagons will work on any hills that you can ride and hand stack a rack on. Once you use a bale wagon a while, they are very fast. I back mine into the hay shed, tip it back and unload in about 2 minutes. You need a 13 foot ceiling height to tip it back. In first cutting hay, I can load it, in the field, in about 10 minutes. Driving faster in later cuttings, I can load it in 7 or 8 minutes. My wagon only holds 56 bales though. If your hayfields are a long distance from your storage, the accumulator and two forks, are probably the only way to go though.

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paul

01-06-2004 13:14:24

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Re: Re: square bale handling in reply to Doug in IL., 01-06-2004 08:48:18

> I think that pushing all those bales up the chute to a bale basket would put a lot of unwanted stress on the baler gearbox and plunger parts.

I haven't noticed any extra strain unless a bale hangs if you turn too short & it jams. Basically you loosen up the bale clamps & allow the pressure from the bale chute to pack the bales - about the same strain either way.

Otherwise you have real good points.

The problems with a NH wagon is that the bales need to be quite uniform, and you need someplace to back in & unload if you have the stack unloader type (not everyone can do this), or you shoot them off one by one if you have the individual bale unloader.

--->Paul

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bryan in mo

01-05-2004 17:41:46

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Re: square bale handling in reply to Seth, 01-04-2004 17:04:36

wow reading all the replies i'm just a little guy , my father and i put up a couple thousand bales a year . i have a a bale accumulator that hooks directly to the baler, and leaves a stack of 6 bales on the ground. for me this works great , i can't realy pull a wagon behind the baler, and with 6 bales to a stack it doesn't take long to load a flatbed trailer.

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Bernie in MA

01-06-2004 17:03:15

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Re: Re: square bale handling in reply to bryan in mo, 01-05-2004 17:41:46

I'm in about the same league as you, 2500 bales. I also have a bale buncher or sled that hitches behind the baler. Mine is old, made by Farmhand. The bales drag on the ground on rods until you open the tailgate and let them out. I had trouble pulling the tailgate rope, bad shoulder, so I rigged a car electric window opener on the latch and now just push a button on the tractor.

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paul

01-05-2004 15:38:45

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Re: square bale handling in reply to Seth, 01-04-2004 17:04:36

You got a lot of good opinions I think. Around me, a lot of folks have bale throwers with 2-7 racks; and a lot of people have the NH bale wagons that hold about 99 bales. Most are gavitating towards round balers if these systems wear out. Almost no one at all has a loader-grab to handle layers of squares. I actually can't think of anyone within 40 miles that has one?

Myself, I always stacked & then repacked 5-6000 bales a year, first with my folks on the tractor, then my wife. But my arms were getting pretty long....

So I got a bale basket 2 years ago, and it allows me to make that hay all by myself. It gives me a 30-45 minute rest while baling, and then spend 30-45 minutes packing. I really like it, and it was a lot cheaper than getting a baler & throw rack for me. I think a thrower busts more bales. The bale basket is a bit more work to unload with my particular hay barn, so it balances out I guess.

I also happened to get a round baler for cheap last year, so my arms are happier.... ;)

--->Paul

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Jerry D in NC

01-05-2004 10:39:37

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Re: square bale handling in reply to Seth, 01-04-2004 17:04:36

We used a NH 1004 for a part of a season and it was more trouble than it was worth. Mainly because I kept forgetting to count the number of bales and the first stage table and it bent the lift rod everytime I messed up. Neighbor bought a Hoelscher system and it is wonderful. We have several trailers and can haul 600 - 800 bales on one run and can load them as fast as the baler can bale them. Take the first load to the barn along with the forks and unload them with the loader. He does straw and has several big open sheds from the tobacco days that he stores straw in. He can stack the bales to within 12 inches of the barn top and pick them back up and load them on the customers trailer without touching them. Unload the trailers and go reload and haul back to the barn and you can unload the next morning while waiting for the dew to dry. A wonderful well designed system the has worked great for him in grass hay, straw, and Alfalfa.

Hoelscher Inc

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Jerry, ?? for you.

01-06-2004 18:48:13

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Re: Re: square bale handling in reply to Jerry D in NC, 01-05-2004 10:39:37

I'm wondering how the accumulator sled moves the bales from behind the baler chute, over to the side so that more bales will fit in the same row? Is it hydraulics or a lever of sorts or ??? That thing looks like the accumulator I saw a while back and never figured that part out. Loren

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Jerry D in NC

01-07-2004 10:57:05

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Re: Re: Re: square bale handling in reply to Jerry, ?? for you., 01-06-2004 18:48:13

It is a side table that collects 2 bales which then trips a lever. That is a single cycle hydraulic setup that causes the table to lift and roll the bales 90 degrees and slide them over on to the accumulator table. I can get you some close up pictures if you would like...

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Loren

01-07-2004 18:37:03

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Re: Re: Re: Re: square bale handling in reply to Jerry D in NC, 01-07-2004 10:57:05

Could you post a couple here? Maybe one with the bales ready to turn and one with them half moved. I'm thinking you mean that two bales come straight back out of the baler, when that's done it trips and rolls them a quarter turn and then pushes them sideways? That right? Loren

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Jerry D in NC

01-08-2004 16:28:54

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: square bale handling in reply to Loren, 01-07-2004 18:37:03

Yep that would be exactly how it works. I don't kow when we will have it hooked back up so I can operate it and get those pictures but will try to remember too this spring

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Loren

01-09-2004 17:28:48

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: square bale handling in reply to Jerry D in NC, 01-08-2004 16:28:54

Ok, then maybe I don't nee pictures. lol Are both functions run off hydraulics, one cyl. to flip them and two to slide them?

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Rick

01-05-2004 06:13:06

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Re: square bale handling in reply to Seth, 01-04-2004 17:04:36

Seth; It all depends on each individual situation. I grew up behind kicker bakers,Then went to bale basket wagons,which I really like over the kicker system. Looked at New Holland bale wagons but was to much running,with too small loads. I use the accumlator /grapple system. (10bales) love it. I have enough trailers, wagons,hog carts etc. normally I get it all on wheels and it is sold right off their,or tarped right on it. When you have customers use same grapple to load them also. In normal in a season probably don't physically handle mor than 20 bales all season. This is straw 8,000 to 10,000 and around same in hay. Will be doubling that this season. I also load 53ft van trailers with the same grapple. give me a call and I can help you out. Ask away 319-257-6764

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Seth

01-05-2004 13:50:27

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Re: Re: square bale handling in reply to Rick, 01-05-2004 06:13:06

Rick,
I was wondering what brand of accumulator you use? Do you ever see used accumulators for sale. I'm in central iowa.

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Rick

01-06-2004 17:20:39

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Re: Re: Re: square bale handling in reply to Seth, 01-05-2004 13:50:27

Yes all time. Their is one now in the Iowa Farmer today paper. I use Hoelscher system. I am located in southeast Iowa. I strongly encourage you to come visit and have a look how I use the system. Alot of them are for sale with very little use because they can't get them to work right. I have problem figured out after first afternoon. Have modified mine now we go same as nonstop baling now. Rick We are not that far apart. Give me call 319-257-6764 I love mine now no way I would sell

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Flurette Farm

01-04-2004 19:10:23

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Re: square bale handling in reply to Seth, 01-04-2004 17:04:36

Seth, having been through this numerous occasions I will give you the benefit of what I've learned that works for me.
Since cutting is my biggest bottleneck I have a 12' NH SP mower conditioner that will cut in excess of 100 acres a day so I can cut before noon what I can bale the next day, (weather permitting). I have both a NH 1012 (tractor pulled bale wagon) and an 8 bale (FarmHand) accumulator with 2 sets of forks.
The bale wagon works fine but that just gets it back to the barn and leaves a lot of work to be done. Even with an elevator it's difficult for 1 person.
The bale accumulate allows me to bale, pick up and stack in the barn 6-800 bale a day by my self. If I'm farther from the barn it requires 1 set of forks in the field and 1 set at the barn. With the 8 bale forks you can stack close and tight in the barn with little hand work. Once again this is what works for me and does require a considerable investment in equip't but I put up 10-15000 bales annually by myself. Good luck which everway you go..... ...

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kyhayman

01-04-2004 18:40:56

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Re: square bale handling in reply to Seth, 01-04-2004 17:04:36

Seems like we hashed this out last spring and I was in the definite minority (I'm used to that). 6 years ago I had to make the same decision. Based on my particular set up a NH bale wagon was the best choice. I had 3 flat wagons (what some folks call hay racks or flat racks). With alfalfa I had to load and unload and then reload each wagon each cutting (figure 125 bales on a 20' flat with our hills). That was doable. When I ran timothy I needed capacity to load 1500 bales a day. That's about what I can get through the baler. I could get enough help to load it but not unload and reload. I did have several barns with height and width to dump in plus I could build 3 sided sheds on them (tobacco barns).

If I got an accumulator I would have to buy at least 5 more wagons. Then I would load the wagons in about the same time as I run a bale wagon. When I get the wagons to the barn I am only 1/2 done with the accumulator system, still have to unload and stack. June kills me, as soon as I quit running alfalfa I run timothy, when I finish timothy I have to run alfalfa again. Saw a huge bottleneck. 5 good wagons with flats would cost $5000. A good 1034 stackliner was $5100 and when I go to the barn, in 15 minutes I am stacking again. Plus I am only maintaining 4 tires on the bale wagon vs 32 for 8 flat wagons. My conversion cost plus a shed on the buildings was $4500 for a one time dumping capacity of 4500 bales. Then I can hand rick the sheds of the barns at night(put about 5500 there). May have a problem this year as it looks like I am going to carry over about 2000 bales. I've got 1 place left to build a shed on a barn so that's my spring project. Kickers werent a consideration b/c I'd have to have more wagons and hand unload them. I looked hard at balebaskets but I'd have to once again, I'd have a huge pile to sort and rick plus 3 of them would run $9000.

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Kelly C

01-04-2004 19:58:18

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Re: Re: square bale handling in reply to kyhayman, 01-04-2004 18:40:56

I ran across a web site and saw some thing I am really going to think on.
This one hay Farmer bales all his hay in round bales. That way he can get in and get the hay off the field fast and easy. Then latter in the year when he does not have to be in the field he rebales it in small square bales.
He has a series of conveyers set up 3 of them.
The tractor and baler are running stationary.
He puts a round bale in the 1st conveyer its set at a steep angle and has sides that the bale turn in. this unrolls the bale into the 2nd one that is flatter. this dumps into a 3rd that runs to the pick up on his square baler. Set up in a L shape.
Seems there would be more cost in the rebaling. Gas. wear and tear on 2 balers/ trators ect.
But I am thinking on this. I can round bale alot faster and get them in the barn faster.
I I could bale and Have one guy on the rack then 2 more unloading. Like I did when I was a kid this stuff wouldnt even be an issue. but hard to find the help when its needed.

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DEM66

01-05-2004 12:04:44

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Re: Re: Re: square bale handling in reply to Kelly C, 01-04-2004 19:58:18

What kind of hay are you rebaling. We farm mostly alfalfa. I would think you would loose alot of leaves rebaling alfalfa. If you are going to spend $40,000 look at a Bale Bandit.

www.balebandit.com

Dan

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Kelly C

01-05-2004 15:33:03

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Re: Re: Re: Re: square bale handling in reply to DEM66, 01-05-2004 12:04:44

Gulp..... Nope wont be spending 40,000.
I was thinking of building some thing myself for like say a couple of hundred bucks.

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Dave_D

01-06-2004 12:00:42

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: square bale handling in reply to Kelly C, 01-05-2004 15:33:03

here another $40K unit

Simpsonunroller

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Kelly C

01-06-2004 21:11:23

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: square bale handling in reply to Dave_D, 01-06-2004 12:00:42

Hey!! thats what I was refering too. Except this guy made his own. Almost exactly the same as these. Some body borrowed some bodys idea.
I bet If I put my brain to it I can make a set of these for alot less than 40 grand.
Thanks for the link.

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kyhayman

01-04-2004 20:03:14

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Re: Re: Re: square bale handling in reply to Kelly C, 01-04-2004 19:58:18

Kelly C, do you have a link? I've been toying with doing something of the sort myself for the future. Seems like a way to extend baler capacity, too.

Reagrds,
David

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Kelly C

01-04-2004 20:32:54

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Re: Re: Re: Re: square bale handling in reply to kyhayman, 01-04-2004 20:03:14

Nope. I was at my brother inlaws using his computer when I saw the site. I think it was from a google search but cant remember what I was looking for. Been racking my brain the last week trying to find it again.
Thats the thing about this internet. When you come accross somthing good you got to save it or write it down. Like finding a needle in the hay stack to find them again. When I find it again I will let you know.

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Rick

01-05-2004 06:00:24

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: square bale handling in reply to Kelly C, 01-04-2004 20:32:54

The rebaling set up was in Farm Show Mag.Ihave been the rebale route. His setup is around $40,000.00. I still am in this point of view,if you going to do it do it right the first time,for whatever works for you.

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RichG

01-04-2004 18:35:26

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Re: square bale handling in reply to Seth, 01-04-2004 17:04:36

I used to hire high school kids to ride the back of the wagons and stack but last year I had a axel break off a full wagon, the kids got off ok but it scared the he(( out of me. So I went and bought a baler with a hydraulic kicker. Now I don't have any kids riding the wagons or anyone else. I still hire the high schoolers to help unload but I don't have to worry about a wagon falling on them. I looked at the haystackers but my barns aren't high enough to unload and my hay ground is too hilly. Good luck

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