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Implement Alley Discussion Forum

OT-cattle prices today?

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John51

12-26-2003 15:32:45




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Did any of you guys go to an cattle auction today? I'm curious about fat steer prices since the mad cow scare.
Thanks, John




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Mark in MO

12-29-2003 11:10:29




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 Re: OT-cattle prices today? in reply to John51, 12-26-2003 15:32:45  
I know for a fact that in the Poultry Producing parts of south Missouri and northern Arkansas, the practice of feeding Chicken and Turkey body parts is still being done even though it has been outlawed. This "Litter" is fed in place of hay. Let's not shoot ourself in the foot just to save a few $'s with cheap feed. As Beef Producers, we need to protect our Industry.
Just my O
Mark Hill
Dearborn,MO

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Hugh MacKay

12-28-2003 05:44:28




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 Re: OT-cattle prices today? in reply to John51, 12-26-2003 15:32:45  
It is a shame what happens around the world. re: tests finding on farm problems with food. It really doesn't matter whether it be meat, potatoes, milk, cabbage, etc. In my opinion most of this is happening to create a supply of cheap raw materials for the processing industry. The general public is led around by the nose just like a bull, in this whole scheme of events.

Some years ago in a town near my home there was a meat rendering plant in between a couple of farm equipment dealers. The aroma coming out of that place was horendous. You can get the same aroma at the back door of every outlet of one of the most popular burger joints across North America. The real villian here is not the farmer but rather the regeims used by processors to give food shelf life.

Governments have also played a major role in this with their cheap food policies. The general public has come to believe it is a god given right to eat for a mere nothing. I find it hard to comprehend a consumer tossing out dollars as freely as they do for automobiles, entertainment, clothes, housing, etc. yet they expect to be able to buy food for 1960 prices. Amazing the only consumer product they actually injest, yet they are willing to go cheap. While that continues there will be shortcuts at every segment of the food chain. We face a far greater danger from additives and preservatives used after product leaves the farm gate, than any practices the farmer uses. I would also be willing to bet there are far more rigorous tests being performed at point of product leaving farm than the finished product in the supermarket.

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Jimmy King

12-28-2003 12:15:20




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 Re: Re: OT-cattle prices today? in reply to Hugh MacKay, 12-28-2003 05:44:28  
I could not have said it any better, Hugh



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Livestock auction today

12-27-2003 07:35:37




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 Re: OT-cattle prices today? in reply to John51, 12-26-2003 15:32:45  
Sale today @ Hub City Livestock, check out their site @>Link
(1-800-889-3273)>Link



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rick in sc

12-27-2003 06:19:30




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 Re: OT-cattle prices today? in reply to John51, 12-26-2003 15:32:45  
I just can't let this go by without a comment.Since the far east [who by the way consider cats dogs & rats normal food]wont buy our beef what are we doing buying thier products?



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tim[in]

12-28-2003 15:47:13




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 Re: Re: OT-cattle prices today? in reply to rick in sc, 12-27-2003 06:19:30  
we really dont have a choice in buying their products, since it is almost impossible to find something that is not foreign made or has foreign parts or at least assembled else where.i looked at some of my xmas gifts i got, several were all made in china.corporate greed at it's best,and the consumer is partly to blame.people complain about the prices when they buy something out of their income range .corporations all want more and more profits. govt wants the money moving around so it can collect taxes to support it's spendaholic ways.

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Fern(Mi)

12-27-2003 05:49:27




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 Re: OT-cattle prices today? in reply to John51, 12-26-2003 15:32:45  
I'm not going through all our names to find the ones. So; here it is just the same. Now it's mad cow disease, some supplement feed producer slipping in some animal by-products so bolsster there protien claims. It's to bad. Now I wonder if our supplements are safe.
Before this (in Wisc, Mich, and somewhere else) The deer herds multiplying tosuch large numbers so that hunt club shooters could fill their individual tags first day, the deer have developed tuberculosus. So; what they call it? Bovine tuberculosus because that is where they found it first, not that is where it started. Now we have to kep even mo precise records, something we have become accustomed to for registered breeding stock. The extra paper work is becoming as dreaded as rising taxes. But to survive our life still we will just have to presevere (an Abe Lincoln word).
I like the animals . I know I'm alive. They give me less back talk than most people. They challenge me to their needs when I have to provide them feed. And, then when Winter's wind beats me in the face when I have to thaw-out a water fountain.
I'm living as naturaul a high any man can experience when my mixing it up with anybody's God's elements.
Mad Cow --- Bovine TB; Curses laid upon the farm by othres greed. Thanks for listening to a rambling old man's coments. I'm Mad.

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John A

12-27-2003 05:34:56




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 Re: OT-cattle prices today? in reply to John51, 12-26-2003 15:32:45  
Boys, This is my $.02 here. Time will prove that this dairy cow was gotten over 2 yres ago out of Canada. Here in the US, the comercial feed companies have not put unprocessed animal parts in feed since 1978. The main area of the bovine body that carries the diesease is the Brain and Spinal Cord. Not the muscle masses, ie.. Rounds, Shoulder, Loin eye.
So with this info, the most likly way this animal was infected was before this farmer bought it 2 yrs ago. Where they haven't outlawed unprocessed animal parts being added to animal feed untill recently.
In other parts ot the world .....like France they eat brain on a regular basis. Cooking soesn't kill the diesease. If proven wrong on my thory. I will graciously say "I am wrong"
This needs to be over quickly. My family are cattle folks. Some cow/calf , others, Yearlings....400 to 800 wts then sell. Hopein its over quickly,
Later,
John A.

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Mark in AB

12-27-2003 08:42:35




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 Re: Re: OT-cattle prices today? in reply to John A, 12-27-2003 05:34:56  
Gotten out of Canada? Give me a break guys, the single mad cow here was supposidly gotten out of the states. Canada and the US are so damn similar except canada has no where near the population. Why blame everyone else instead of trying to fix the problem? make too much sence? I am certain mad cow has been in every country in the world for years now and then when an animal acted strange and couldn't get up the farmer shot it and buried it. Now with money so tight the odd farmer is trying to get rid of borderline animals through the auction and well eventually got caught. 1 mad cow throughout all of Canada? Ya real scarey, makes me never want to eat beef, same odds of getting sick as getting hit by a meteor. People need to put things in precpective instead of going nuts and blaming everyone else.

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Brad in VA

12-27-2003 16:56:31




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 Re: Re: Re: OT-cattle prices today? in reply to Mark in AB, 12-27-2003 08:42:35  
Deep Breath..... To me there is no difference in Canada and the US other than a line on a map and the fact the it is cold as hel* up there. Point is, here in the US there are small time hobby farmers and big time farmers, there are the same in Canada. I agree with the thought on that there is one or two cows in how many millions that have this??? Where it come from is a big deal. Finger pointing doesnt help. We should all work together to find out where it is comming from and stop it. The Dam* media takes a story and runs with it. It makes ratings. I wish they would put as much effort into reporting the good things as they do the bad. I am a small time farmer I run about 60 head at any time and I supplement my farming with a full time job with the state. The market wolnt hurt me to much I can hold onto mine for a year or two but after that I cant feed them and will have to sell reguard less of price. My familys prayers go to the farmers that dont have a choice. I also agree with the bigger the farmer the harder the fall. Like daddy always said it takes money to make money. Hope everyone makes it through ok.

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John A

12-27-2003 14:03:59




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 Re: Re: Re: OT-cattle prices today? in reply to Mark in AB, 12-27-2003 08:42:35  
Mark, I respectfully disagree with you! News today confirms that cow came in from Canada with 70 someodd other other DAIRY Cattle. This cow is about 6 yrs old and not 4 yrs old as was first reported. Check out Fox News!
This didn't come out of our Feedlot Indistry. I say lay the blame at the feet of those who are still feeding contaminated feed.
Guessing from the AB in your name line, I would say your are from Alberta,Canada I am not trying to be rude about Canada or Canadians. There always few bad apples in every semiload. I still stand by my original statement that the US outlawed the use of unprocessed animal parts i feed since about 1978. If that wasn't the case then there would be Mad Cow outbreaks everywere.
Notice that this case originates out of a close confinement feeding program in Canada. It finely exhibited the symtoms here in Wa. USA. We havn't had an outbreak here in the US since 1978.
This could have been a hold over in cattle that were feed contaminated feed pryor to Ya'lls ban on unprocessed feed additives. There can be a logical explination to this .
Again,I am not trying to pick an argument with you Mark. Just visiting about this problem. Lord only knows how much devistation it has allready caused In your end of this ol world. Hope it doesn't cause too much more!
Later,
John A.

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Dale

12-28-2003 11:40:24




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: OT-cattle prices today? in reply to John A, 12-27-2003 14:03:59  
It doesn't matter when UNPROCESSED byproducts were banned, the processing doesn't stop the transfer of BSE. Fact is, Canada and the US both banned feeding ruminant byproducts to ruminants in 1997, and several feed companies in the US, including Washington, have now admitted they kept on doing it despite the ban. Also seems strange that the USDA would wait so long if they had a Canadian tag, maybe the time lag was just to find a Canadian tag and put it on an American carcass. And even if she did come from Canada two years ago, that's plenty of time for her to get BSE from contaminated feed in the US.

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kyhayman

12-27-2003 05:46:59




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 Re: Re: OT-cattle prices today? in reply to John A, 12-27-2003 05:34:56  
I've been suspecting the same thing myself.

Also been wondering reading some of the comments on this thread, doesn't anyone remember the brucellosis eradication? It was a huge headache but we did manage to eradicate the disease. Four times in the early and mid 80's my dad or I one or the other had a herd to 'bang' out. There was indeminity money for that. Unless the US Constitution got repealed the gvt cant seize your property with out compensation.

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ChrisL

12-26-2003 20:23:54




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 Re: OT-cattle prices today? in reply to John51, 12-26-2003 15:32:45  
don't know about today - but Wed the futures and something else wer elimit down - so they put the extended limit rule which says the price of beef can only go down so much for today and maybe monday - then after that the markets can do what they want again -

i agree - price drops significantly in 1 week - supermarket price doesn't change - who is getting taken there?

i did hear that unlike canad 90% of USA beef grown here is eaten here - SO if the consumers don't feel scared and continue to buy beef (which I don't feel there is a real solid indication of this yet) then the market should rebound and hang in there.

I figure a lot of things will shake out before all the details are known on this one

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Don h

12-26-2003 19:40:54




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 Re: OT-cattle prices today? in reply to John51, 12-26-2003 15:32:45  
Went to the supermarket today. Prices were not down there. Funney how fast they can go up tho.



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Small farmer in Oklahoma

12-26-2003 18:51:55




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 Re: OT-cattle prices today? in reply to John51, 12-26-2003 15:32:45  
Nothing personal but I hope it knocks the bottom out of the market. I can buy a lot of head for a little money then and I have the hay and grass to support them. I could care less what it does to the large groups and the dairy farmers. Dairy animals should not be allowed to be used for meat anyway. Just my feelings.



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Flurette Farm

12-27-2003 15:46:21




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 Re: Re: OT-cattle prices today? in reply to Small farmer in Oklahoma, 12-26-2003 18:51:55  
I think your view is a little short sighted there small oklahoma farmer. Personally I think your way off the mark. Good luck..... ...



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Jimmy King

12-27-2003 15:03:15




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 Re: Re: OT-cattle prices today? in reply to Small farmer in Oklahoma, 12-26-2003 18:51:55  
Nothing personal but if dairy cattle wre banned from being used as meat, maybe cull beef cows should too. And if you work off farm you should pray your Co. doesn't downsize and you are caught in the down draft. Just my feelings.



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small oklahoma farmer

12-28-2003 09:35:22




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 Re: Re: Re: OT-cattle prices today? in reply to Jimmy King , 12-27-2003 15:03:15  
I agree with you. All cull cattle should not be used for food. As far as off farm work, my money comes from oil not farm and as long as people drive my income will stay great. Besides at my age and with my savings I could live till I die without a income and still do what I do now.



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Mark in MO

12-29-2003 11:32:59




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: OT-cattle prices today? in reply to small oklahoma farmer, 12-28-2003 09:35:22  
Small Oklahoma Farmer, I'm glad that you've reached that status in life, I'm sure that you worked hard for it. Most of us are not in that position. (at least I know I'm not) I'm not a Dairy farmer, but what are you supposed to do with your "culls"? Just because you are selling a older cow dosen't mean that the meat is bad. I wonder if you'd have the same attitude if were a "poor" Beef Producer?

Just my O
Mark Hill
Dearborn,MO

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Jimmy King

12-28-2003 12:09:22




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: OT-cattle prices today? in reply to small oklahoma farmer, 12-28-2003 09:35:22  
"Well" small Oklahoma Farmer I didn't say that beef or dairy culls should not be used for beef as an ex dairy farmer both dairy and beef farmers would be in a world of hurt if culls could not be used for meat. As for you, you sound like a fat cat that doesn't give a rats rear about anyone else and thst makes me feel sorry for you as a human being.



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Dick in Ore.

12-26-2003 21:36:20




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 Re: Re: OT-cattle prices today? in reply to Small farmer in Oklahoma, 12-26-2003 18:51:55  
One point to remember: "The Bigger you are, the harder you fall". This dairyman in Mabton Washington, with his 4000 head is about to loose is herd. I've heard numerous times in the last day that his entire herd will have to be slaughtered. This will be devistating. Like my grandfather used to say: If I were to loose my small herd of 15 dairy cows, I could still survive, but for the dairyman with several hundred, he would loose his farm. This goes to show that bigger isn't always better. Several years ago, a person could make a living milking 15 to 20 cows. Bulk trucks would come and pickup the milk. Then as dairies started to grow bigger and bigger, the trucks wouldn't stop unless you milked at least 50 cows. Now it's probably in the hundreds. I haven't heard if the USDA will pay this dairyman when they slaughter his large herd. I could see this happening, but, if it were a small farmer with 5 or 10 head that had to be destroyed, he would probably have to suffer the losses..
I can see the requirment in the near future, that a dairyman or rancher will have to keep individual records on every animal they own, from birth to slaughter, and then several years even afer they are gone. Just as though they were registered. For a dairyman with 4000 head this will be a full time job. When he buys a springer at a sale, he will also have to know this animals history to enter into his records. I think we will see many changes in the near future coming out of the recent outbreak.
As for using dairy cattle for meat.. Without culled dairy cows, where would McDonalds and others get their hamburger? It's a proven fact that a culled Holstein cows does make the best ground beef. If they didn't use them for hamburger, what would they do with them??

Good luck to all,
Dick

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small oklahoma farmer

12-28-2003 09:29:49




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 Re: Re: Re: OT-cattle prices today? in reply to Dick in Ore., 12-26-2003 21:36:20  
I learned that a lot of the burger chains used dairy meat in their hamburgers back in 70's, have not eaten at one that does since then.



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Brandon

12-26-2003 19:12:43




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 Re: Re: OT-cattle prices today? in reply to Small farmer in Oklahoma, 12-26-2003 18:51:55  
Kinda sounds like you don't make your living doing this. Especially with no regard to other farmers. How would you like to get your yearly income cut in half??? Nothing personal..



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small oklahoma farmer

12-28-2003 09:32:20




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 Re: Re: Re: OT-cattle prices today? in reply to Brandon, 12-26-2003 19:12:43  
My income will neverbe cut as long as people drive. Make my money in oil not farming. Besides since jimmy carter there has not been money in farming.



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Larry806

12-26-2003 19:06:07




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 Re: Re: OT-cattle prices today? in reply to Small farmer in Oklahoma, 12-26-2003 18:51:55  
Then how do you account for the fact that on an average over 60% of meat ate in the United States comes from dairy type animals. What would you replace that with?



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Bob

12-27-2003 15:50:09




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 Re: Re: Re: OT-cattle prices today? in reply to Larry806, 12-26-2003 19:06:07  
Sorry your figures are incorrect. Please let me know where you got them..... ....



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Tim(nj)

12-26-2003 20:08:57




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 Re: Re: Re: OT-cattle prices today? in reply to Larry806, 12-26-2003 19:06:07  
There's actually a preference in my area for Holstein steers. Leaner cuts, I'm told.



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toolman

12-26-2003 20:22:31




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: OT-cattle prices today? in reply to Tim(nj), 12-26-2003 20:08:57  
got enough hay to feed them for 7 years , thats what some of the folks up here in canada are being told it could take before they can get back to normal.



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small oklahoma farmer

12-28-2003 09:43:18




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: OT-cattle prices today? in reply to toolman, 12-26-2003 20:22:31  
hay for 7 years is not a problem. just means that some of my hay customers would do without hay for their horses. I have worked for last 30 years to get to the point that whatever happens in the market will not affect my lifestyle. learned that in the 70's when jimmy carter knocked the bottom out of grain prices. make my income from oil not farming, farming is only a hobby that is why i have remained small. I feel that anything over 3000 acres is a waste of time and effort. raise just enough cattle to eat ourselves, enough horses to be able to sell 15 colts a year and use rest for hay to sell to the 'city farmers' around here who think that 5 acres makes them a farmer. just my way of doing business.

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Dean Mn

12-26-2003 18:03:24




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 Re: OT-cattle prices today? in reply to John51, 12-26-2003 15:32:45  
It is my opinion that mad cow is probably not a communicable disease as it appears in the wild. I base this opinion on the fact that elk, deer, sheep, and cattle are all gass eating animals or herbivores. Its my hunch that it is probably found in the mid altitude elevations and is eaten when the animals are eating grass etc and normally killed by the digestive processes, but once in a great great while it beats the digestive process. If it were a communicable disease and or carried by insects I think that we would see much larger numbers of this disease. In my opinion which I admit does not count for much, the numbers of mad cow disease are so small as to be insignificant except for the sensationalism caused by the media, and the fact that there is no known cure. If the scientists would go and take samples of the mid altitude elevations, I think they would find where its natural habitat is in a short amount of time. However it may still take a long time to fully understand it and to come up with a good solution.

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RN

12-27-2003 01:59:07




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 Re: Re: OT-cattle prices today? in reply to Dean Mn, 12-26-2003 18:03:24  
Re mad cow: Wisconsin has a 'mad deer' problem in south central state area, spongioform enciphalitus (spelling?) found in wild deer. a couple infected deer also found in northern Illinois. Previously thought infected deer were only in western states. Elk in Michigan also reported with rotted brains- not many. Story about 4 people died of Cruedfeld-Jacob(mad human) who ate wild game, 2 in wisconsin, medical boys getting nervous here, politicans had bounty on infected deer this year, extended hunt in infected area. RN

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Tim(nj)

12-26-2003 18:56:49




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 Re: Re: OT-cattle prices today? in reply to Dean Mn, 12-26-2003 18:03:24  
It is my understanding that BSE is spread by feeding infected animal-based protein supplements to other cattle. Great idea. Grind up diseased cows to feed other cows. Ban the use of animal-based feed for herbivores and BSE won't spread easily.



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baned since 1997

12-26-2003 19:37:00




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 Re: Re: Re: OT-cattle prices today? in reply to Tim(nj), 12-26-2003 18:56:49  
They baned that since, I think, 1997. Course did somebody cheat?? Old feed maybe?



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Hay Dr

12-27-2003 06:11:51




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: OT-cattle prices today? in reply to baned since 1997, 12-26-2003 19:37:00  
They have not been banned for chickens.The chicken feed gets mixed with the cattle feed and then it is easy for this to happen.



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Hay Dr

12-26-2003 16:25:21




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 Re: OT-cattle prices today? in reply to John51, 12-26-2003 15:32:45  
I've seen some numbers coming from Kansas around $0.70. We hope it stops around there but look for live cattle futures to be max down all next week. Likely it will stop in the $0.60's because we do not export but 15% of USA beef where Canada was exporting 65%-80% of their beef.



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kyhayman

12-26-2003 16:18:17




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 Re: OT-cattle prices today? in reply to John51, 12-26-2003 15:32:45  
Most of the markets were closed today (in fact the majority of the markets (based on number of head) close 2 weeks at Christmas. USDA Market Report is unavailable due to the Christmas holiday.

Futures were down the limit today.

I was reading a story off the AP feed that quoted the USDA Chief Economist (Keith Collins) saying that prices would likely not drop below where they were last year. That sounds about like what I'd been expecting (but the two weeks in January may be UGLY!). The fact remains we are still THE place to buy beef. No other country can ramp up production to replace us in the short term.

Panic will rule for about a month so now is the time to BUY. It never ceases to amaze me, when cattle are high every seat is filled at the sales with farmers buying. When cattle are cheap the only buyers are the order buyers.

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Michael Soldan

12-26-2003 15:53:04




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 Re: OT-cattle prices today? in reply to John51, 12-26-2003 15:32:45  
John51, the Canadian cattle industry took a hit over a year ago when one mad cow was discovered in western Canada. Our prices here dropped from $1.20+ to about$.40c and the price has been very slow to get back up to the $1 range. Old cows are give aways selling as low as $.08 a pound. I was talking to a guy from northern Ontario who shipped some older cows and ended up owing the truck driver. Bulls are bringing about $.60 a pound. This is no doubt going to impact not just the US market but north America. Any animal more than three years old will be suspect and prices will remain flat. Cattle producers here are hurting big time and its going to spread, hopefully Canada and the United States can open their borders to each other and we can at least get back to the livestock trade as we knew it two years ago. keeping our fingers crossed ...Mike in Exeter Ontario

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JJButson

12-26-2003 21:11:26




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 Re: Re: OT-cattle prices today? in reply to Michael Soldan, 12-26-2003 15:53:04  
Nothing personal mike but if they open the border to canada beef it will just drop our prices more. Not that is any real difference in them other than the feeding practice. And that even varies as to the region of this country.
Kyhayman I agree I have a dozen head of beef cows and usually buy bottle calves every once in a while. I have found best time to buy them is when market hits rock bottom. When there are no buyers price is cheap= low investment. At the same time the vealers buy when prices is low= low supply when selling. I sell calves when ever the market seems good sometimes 450# other times has been 900#. flexability can make a world of difference in profit margins. I do feel sorry for some of the real beef farmers that have to send cattle every week. they can't hold them over like smaller "hobby" farmers like me that don't depend on that check each month.

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Michael Soldan

12-27-2003 06:19:09




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 Re: Re: Re: OT-cattle prices today? in reply to JJButson, 12-26-2003 21:11:26  
JJ, you may be correct about U S beef dropping if Canada is allowed to export to your country but we also buy a lot of U S beef and I believe our government has already banned some cuts of meat from U S. I believe a drop in price between our two countries would be short lived. Two years ago cattle were flowing north and south of the border by the pot load processed meat was also changing countries where geographically it was closer to markets whether they were U S or Canadian. I agree with you that the big guys are getting hurt real bad. I, like you am a Hobby farmer whose source of income is from a workplace rather than reliance on farm income and I subsidize the farm with my paycheck in a lot of instances. I do hope that this BSC thing gets straightened out real soon and we can get back to the flow of cattle and beef products between our two countries as it once was Take care and good luck with your cattle....Mike in Exeter Ontario

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