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Implement Alley Discussion Forum

Clover vs. alfalfa

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Ultradog MN

10-27-2003 17:16:00




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I've been playing around with a 3 acre plot that I'm wanting to plant in something to draw in the deer.
I turned it over a year ago and was going to put in some alfalfa this spring but with a wet spring and this and that and then a dry summer and living 130 miles away I didn't get it planted.
So In mid August I put in some rye just for this year. Boy are the deer in there!
But I still want to plant some kind of a hay crop next spring.
I read that alfalfa will go about 6 years between plantings.
And my neighbor (has Herefords) will be glad to take a crop off of it a couple times a year for the hay. -Saves me from having bush hog it
But the old game warden up there says I should put in some lespedesa clover as the deer like it better.
Do they?
How many years between plantings with clover?
Would the farmer neighbor be as glad to take the clover hay?
I don't mind a little tractor time but I can't see doing this plowing, discing, drilling business Too often.
Is it common to mix the clover and alfalfa?
I would put in a cover crop of oats when I planted the alfalfa. Does a guy need to do that with clover?

What would the deer like best?
Which would last longer?
And which would my neighbor prefer for his cattle?

Thanks for any help
Jerry

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kjm

10-29-2003 21:58:18




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 Re: Clover vs. alfalfa in reply to Ultradog MN, 10-27-2003 17:16:00  
Try planting some turnips, I know a farmer that sez his cows and deer love them. He leases his ground for hunting.



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paul

10-29-2003 08:13:12




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 Re: Clover vs. alfalfa in reply to Ultradog MN, 10-27-2003 17:16:00  
The neighbor will prefer alfalfa, won't get more than 1 cutting off the clover & very difficult to dry & bale. He also may not like a bunch of extra deer in the area - as you may have gathered from some of the replies. ;)

Clovers will reseed themselves at times if you let them go to seed (not harvested). You noticed I said 'at times' but mostly they get weaker also. Alfalfa will always get thinner, and does not allow it's seed to grow near a living alfalfa plant (auto-toxic to itself). In fact to reseed an alfalfa field you will need to wait at least 3 months of good weather between killing the old & seeding the new - generally plant something else for a full year.

You can get grazing alfalfas that are much more durable as the crown stays in the dirt more. You can also get alfalfa that seeds itself with runners like strawberries do - if you give it periods of no harvest. These do _not_ yield as much alfalfa, but sounds like you are not after yield, but longgevity of the field.

There are deer mixes that have alfalfa, clover, and so foth all mixed in already.

Most all of these alfalfa, clover, & grass mixes work well with a cover crop of oats. You can plant here in MN in early spring or around September. This was an EXCELLENT year for establishing a stand, with that very long cool wet spring we had. Too bad you missed it, won't see those conditions but every 12 years or so. Couldn't miss to get a good crop established. Really bites to try to get something growing in a hot dry spring, these crops do not like that.

Get yourself a catalog from Albert Lea Seed House - they are on the web, but the catalog (comes out in February?) is better than the web site. They sell all of the above mentioned stuff, in small quantities too. Can mix & match what you want. They are in the southern part of the state, might want to take a spring trip to Cabella's & them & make a day of it, neat little seed place.

Nope, don't work there, just dive 100 miles each spring to be a happy customer. :)

--->Paul

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Ultradog MN

10-28-2003 04:54:32




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 Re: Clover vs. alfalfa in reply to Ultradog MN, 10-27-2003 17:16:00  
Thanks all for your thoughts here.
Maybe I'll just stick with my original plan and go with the alfalfa for the main field.
But I've also been doing some reclamation as the brush has really taken over and I could gain another 1/2 acre at least.
Might be fun to get some of that turned back over
for the first time in 30 years and play with some annual plantings like peas or beans like some of you mentioned.

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Nebraska Cowman

10-28-2003 04:11:03




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 Re: Clover vs. alfalfa in reply to Ultradog MN, 10-27-2003 17:16:00  
your game warden is full of s@#t. The deer will eat what ever is green and lush, whatever is the best feed in the area. I'd plant afalfa and then poisen the dam deer.



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Jerry (Al)

10-27-2003 18:43:09




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 Re: Clover vs. alfalfa in reply to Ultradog MN, 10-27-2003 17:16:00  
I have 60 acres that I play with for the deer. I have tried several things so far: ladino clover, whitetail clover, rye, corn, beans.

I have an area where there is about 2 acres of lespedza mixed with clover and they love it. I guess 75% of the deer that come in there stop there first.They really love the corn too. I plant 3 acres and hopefully this year with the good crop, some will make it through to the spring for the turkey.

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Jerry (AL)

10-27-2003 18:49:16




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 Re: Re: Clover vs. alfalfa in reply to Jerry (Al), 10-27-2003 18:43:09  
Should have said that the best all around attractant is purple hull peas but they don't last long enough and are gone before the season is in. I couldn't get the alfalfa to grow and I tried but couldn't kill out the lespedza. Glad I let it grow now.



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Sid

10-27-2003 17:47:13




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 Re: Clover vs. alfalfa in reply to Ultradog MN, 10-27-2003 17:16:00  
In my opinion Lespedza is the better of the two for several reasons. Less expensive to establish, easier to keep up and I think it would last longer as it will reseed itself. It would also be more benefical to birds and other small wildlife. I have known of some lespedza to be around many years, around here it does well mixed with grass. I do not think it would be a good mix with alfalfa. I have simply broadcast it in the fall and have used oats as a nurse crop good results both ways. I have tried to give my thoughts on your questions but as for the last one you will have to ask your neighbor.

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Tim(nj)

10-27-2003 17:27:56




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 Re: Clover vs. alfalfa in reply to Ultradog MN, 10-27-2003 17:16:00  
Hi Jerry, how's the drill coming along?

If you plant alfalfa, plant a variety that is good for both hay and grazing for longevity. The lespedeza is an annual, so you'd have to reseed every year. The deer here aren't so fussy. They eat anything! Cattle farmers prefer alfalfa hay over lespedeza. Red clover is a different story. My cousin planted forage peas on a plot one year to get the deer in, and the deer loved them. The peas are also an annual, though. Deer like soybeans, too. Maybe put in a mix of peas and soys? You could put some alfalfa in, and leave some strips around the outside of the field to plant annual legumes.

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Ultradog MN

10-28-2003 04:42:07




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 Re: Re: Clover vs. alfalfa in reply to Tim(nj), 10-27-2003 17:27:56  
Howdy Tim,
Those tubes you sold me are nice. Thanks again.
I still had to buy a couple of rubber ones from JD as I couldn't find all the coiled ones I needed. I'm still looking though.
But the Van Brunt Model EE ran like a well oiled old Singer sewing machine when I put in the rye.
Makes a guy proud of good old American ingenuity
when you can put a 60 Y.O. farm machine to work and it still works flawlessly.
I'd like to find the fertilizer attachment for it.
Jerry

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jim

10-27-2003 17:54:21




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 Re: Re: Clover vs. alfalfa in reply to Tim(nj), 10-27-2003 17:27:56  
Red clover has two varieties,Big Red(one year)and Little (Double cut) Red (good for two years).
There are several other varieties of clover other than red. A mixture of Little Red,Timothy and Alfalfa will give you a good, long lasting stand of hay that is very flexible to market. A first year stand of this mixture will be dominated by the clover while the alfalfa and timothy are being established. The Red is gone for the most part in the second year and you're off to the races for many years with the timothy/alfalfa mixture. Works well for me.

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