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Implement Alley Discussion Forum

Things that cut hay...

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Red

10-13-2003 19:27:10




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Only thing I've ever used to cut hay is an old sickle bar mower. Been thinking about moving up to a Haybine. Seen several NH 472's and 474's go real cheap last year. How much better are they than a just a plain sickle bar?

A buddy's got a NH disc mower and swears by it, but I really don't want to spend that much and plus I don't hardly have enough tractor(at least for the NH disc mowers, or so I'm told).

So I guess the big questions are how much better do they cut than a sickle and how much harder are they to maintain? Or, if the disc mowers are that much better than a conditioner what should I be looking at?

It's probably worth mentioning that I'm only cutting about a 100 acres.

Thanks.

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Jim in michigan

10-18-2003 07:03:28




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 Re: Things that cut hay... in reply to Red, 10-13-2003 19:27:10  
I bought a Case 555 haybine and use it on less then 100 acres, made life easier and my Farmall H pulls it easily in 4th gear,,,I paid 200 for the one I am using now, but the previous one was a freebie....Jim



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Hay Dr

10-15-2003 15:55:46




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 Re: Things that cut hay... in reply to Red, 10-13-2003 19:27:10  
You need to look at the CCM Drum Mowers $1,800 new and will mow as fast as you can ride the tractor. The cut in the same way as a disc mower.These drum mower are perfect for a 30-60 HP tractors.



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Errin OH

10-15-2003 19:35:02




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 Re: Re: Things that cut hay... in reply to Hay Dr, 10-15-2003 15:55:46  
From my experience, I'd look around. No problem with drum mowers, Do a search on them and you'll find several brands. CCM however didn't strike me as someone I'd depend on. I had contacted them on a Tuesday regarding purchasing a Drum mower a few months back. Was told the person I needed to talk to was out till Friday call back. But he did take the time to answer a few questions. Called twice on Friday (morning & afternoon) and got no answer. Not even a machine. Tried the next week (Wednesday I think) and was put on the phone with a fella, who had no time for me and abruptly said "we're out call back in three weeks." My reaction was - If this is how they sell them, how they gonna be when it comes to fixin it (in the middle of a cutting no less)? Yea, he could of been having a bad day, but what if I am too. Needless to say my $ went somewhere else.

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Hay Dr

10-16-2003 15:53:39




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 Re: Re: Re: Things that cut hay... in reply to Errin OH, 10-15-2003 19:35:02  
ALL you have to do is call 423-282-6969 & ask for Clyde or Mark. Realize we started the web sales and had to play catch-up because of the increased volume. We sold hundreds of these drum mowers this year. We have sold thousands of them since 1982 so we've always been here and have all the parts to fix them. We just do not sell many parts because these mowers are the most durable in the world.



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Loren

10-16-2003 17:29:34




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Things that cut hay... in reply to Hay Dr, 10-16-2003 15:53:39  
If you're in any form a rep for the company selling these mowers I'd have expected a LOT different answer from someone that cared. If not, I understand.



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Hay Dr

10-17-2003 16:31:29




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Things that cut hay... in reply to Loren, 10-16-2003 17:29:34  
Loren,
Take you head out of the sand I'm the OWNER. I can say whatever I want too.



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Rick

10-15-2003 06:15:52




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 Re: Things that cut hay... in reply to Red, 10-13-2003 19:27:10  
I have a 1460 JD disc/mow conditioner for sale if intereseted. Doe very nice job, I am just wanting larger unit. $5950.00 cash



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Adam B.

10-14-2003 23:11:38




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 Re: Things that cut hay... in reply to Red, 10-13-2003 19:27:10  
There's a lot of good feedback here.

I think 100 acres is more than enough to go for a mower/conditioner. You should be able to find several advantages over just a sickle. If the field is wet, you can make narrow, tight windrows and let the sun dry the ground before you spread the hay out. In dry fields, you can go right to wider windrows so the hay begins drydown right away (since its crimped as well, it will go faster).

There shouldn't be a whole lot more to maintain, really. The knife is still the only real wear part that will need regular, constant maintenance. If the conditioning rolls (or impeller) are in good condition when you buy it, they shouldn't be a problem. Just grease the drive joints, keep the oil levels up in the gearboxes and make sure drive chains have the right tension.

Cost seems to be very important, so you may want to shy away from a disc mower or disc mo-co. If you have stones and rocks in your field(s), they don't fare as well as the slower-working sickle types. If the cutterbar has rivets, I would strongly recommend getting a bolt conversion kit. The first time you crawl under a mo-co to change a knife section, you'll definitely appreciate those little bolts.

The only other thing to think of is your terrain. We run side-swing mowers (first NH 489's and a 1465, now JD 935 disc mo-cos) and they do not trail well across slopes. So, if you do a lot of mowing across slopes, maybe a regular sickle mower or disc cutter (just cutterbar) would be better for you.

Good luck!

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Cliff Neubauer

10-14-2003 17:17:56




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 Re: Things that cut hay... in reply to Red, 10-13-2003 19:27:10  
After years of running an IH 1190 hay conditioner, a 990 before that and sickle mowers before that we bought a NI 5409 disk mower last summer. If you can afford it you will never regret buying a disk mower and here in SE IA I can't say that we have seen much difference in drying time by not having the conditioner rolls even in alfalfa, what little difference there is in drying time is more than made up for by being able to mow 2-3 times faster. Maintance on our disk mower has been almost nothing compared to the 1190 (I will admit we ran the wheels off the 1190), very few grease zerks and the gear boxes need check once a year or so. It takes about $40 and 20 minutes to change all the blades on the disk mower compared to hundreds of dollars and hours on the sickle mower. We don't raise alot of hay, about 200 acres a year but it is done on the side of our 2,000 acres of row crops so time is at a premium and the disk mower has cut our mowing time down by over half with 12 acres/hour possible with a 9' mower, faster speeds are alot of the difference but with the disk mower you almost never have to stop which makes a huge difference. We do have one field of hay we still mow with the 990 but that is because it has alot of big rocks that are not good on a disk mower.

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Indydirtfarmer

10-14-2003 10:00:49




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 Re: Things that cut hay... in reply to Red, 10-13-2003 19:27:10  
One thing that would be usefull, is the HP of your tractor. There are some disc mowers that can run with as low as 45 HP. They aren't much cheaper than their "big brothers" A mower/conditioner will be a good step up, from a plain cyclebar mower. You can find decent ones (that MAY need some repairs) for well under $1000. Cyclebar mowers worked fine for years.



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kyhayman

10-14-2003 08:25:59




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 Re: Things that cut hay... in reply to Red, 10-13-2003 19:27:10  
Just a humble opinion compairing them, assuming all are in good condition.

Sicklemower: Compact pickup (with a 4 cyl)
Haybine:1/2 ton pickup (V-8)
Discmower:1 ton pickup (turbo diesel)
DiscBine: Mack truck

Select the one you need for the job you have to do and the $$$ available.



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Dale in IN

10-14-2003 07:02:43




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 Re: Things that cut hay... in reply to Red, 10-13-2003 19:27:10  
Your haybine is better than a sickle mower. It will cut and crimp and crush the stems, so they will dry faster if it set up right. Also the reel on the haybind will help pick up down and tangled hay.
I had an IH 990 and broke the top roller in it. $1200 OUCH!!! The I H rollers are chain driven . The chains have a tendency to stretch and wear and get the rollers out of time. Needless to say mine got a new home. I now run a 1219 JD and it is gear and U Joint driven. Havent had any trouble with it . I do not spare the grease when it comes to greasing it . Grease is the life of Machinery.
I Pull it with a JD 830 3cyl diesel utility (35HP) and can run about 4 mile per in standing hay. In down hay I usually drop back a gear and give the reel time to work. As far as your corners you have to learn how to turn them and you can turn a square corner and not leave any slobbers. It just takes practcie. And yes any sickle will plug if you hit the right slug and it hangs rather than cut.

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Gary in TX

10-14-2003 06:44:50




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 Re: Things that cut hay... in reply to Red, 10-13-2003 19:27:10  
Hey Red,
I didn't read all the posts too your question but I read several. I have been doing custom hay baling for 10 seasons now and cutting and raking before that. My first machine was a New HOlland 469(still have it), I have had a 488 New Holland as well. I am now cutting with a John Deere 2280 Self Proppelled and a John Deere 1380 Hydroswing(both Deeres have 14' cut).
I have mowed many of a acre with the 469 with a 135 Massey(gas) rated at 36 hp and it cut everything from 8' tall sudan to bermuda. With the 9' cut of the 469 you should be able to cut approx. 3 to 4 acres an hour. One other thing you want to conside is hydraulics on your tractor and also live pto. You really need both! You will like using a haybine after you use one. One other thing you might do is check with someone who has one and see if they will let you try it out for a few minutes in a field they are cutting. Check for items listed in the other posts are far as roller, bearings pto shafts etc. to make sure things are not too worn. The rollers and the wobble box are the two most important items to check in my book. A 488 or 479 New Holland would make a good choice for a starter machine if you have at least a 35 HP tractor with the the live pto and hydraulics(you only really need single acting hydraulics as well as you only need power up, gravity will take care of the lowering part. Hope this helps!

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Chris Brown

10-14-2003 06:10:00




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 Re: Things that cut hay... in reply to Red, 10-13-2003 19:27:10  
I had a 1209 JD ,a 990 IH ,and now I have a 1190 IH haybine and I would never think of cutting hay with just a sickle again. You should be able to pick up a pretty good older mower conditioner for somewhere between $1500 and $2500. out of the three I have had I prefer the 1190 IH over the JD 1209. The 990 IH pulld easiest of all but didnt have as many options,(hydraulic tongue), but it cut great.You need a minimum of about 45 HP to run any of the 3 I mentioned. 60 hp works better.

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Errin OH

10-14-2003 05:13:43




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 Re: Things that cut hay... in reply to Red, 10-13-2003 19:27:10  
Red, pretty much what has been said. But let me add the following. I went from a NI pull type to a JD1209. The biggest differance was time. I now cut & condition in about a third of the time I did before. My NI didn't have the rear pto option. To crimp (condition) alfafla or clover I had to make a second pass over the field. In stem'y hay (clover, alfafla, etc...) cut is about equal. In thick grass hands down hybine wins. That reel really helps push it through and, unless you grab some trash, it doesn't clog up like a sickle. My NI would only raise 10" and the end of the bar would grab a wad, as I passed over a previous cut, and clog up. Corners were the worst, ever try to run circules in a square field? I like the fact I can raise and lower the JD and drive over a previous cut with no worries.

As for the maintenance, search the archives, some of the NH's had wobbles boxes that were less than desirble. I don't recall the mod #'s but it will not take long to look. Find a good one and keep the grease and oil up and it isn't that bad. But as with anything "buyer beware". Look it over real good. Take your buddy with ya if you can, my guess is he's used them before and will know what to look for. If he doesn't find someone who does. From my experances - Rollers, although may have some cracks should not be peeling. Rock pto shaft back and forth, look for play or lack of movement. Everything should move when the pto is turned. Inspect U-joints, nice and tight. Reel my have few bump and ding's from rocks. But if beat to death and teeth missing, someone been pretty rough on it. Cutter bar and guards should be in line. Bent or bowed - bad. You'll know what a good one shoud look like.

As for price, really watch cheap. Check around to figure going price in your area. In my area a good unit (JD or NH) sells for $4-5000. A cheap unit under $2000. In my case I paid $2000 and had to repair it (parts included). Average - above average condition, bad bearing on the cutter bar. I do have a seal to replace yet, and am wacthing another issue. But when I have to addres them I'll only be at the $3000 mark. I saw the same machine (JD1209) in sorry condition (non-working) go for $2500. A NH489 workin, new wobble box - $4500. I feel like I did good. You can find good used machines for less here. Hesston, Acgo, NI usally under $2000 but I have no idea how well the operate or what parts are like.

"only 100 acres" If it was 10, I would really think about it. Weigh the pros and cons. Figure in the added expense and such.

A 100, I'd get a hybine. Actually I did at 40.

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JMS/MN

10-14-2003 00:28:54




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 Re: Things that cut hay... in reply to Red, 10-13-2003 19:27:10  
The whole point in switching from a sickle mower to a Haybine is that with the Haybine you do three operations at once- mow, condition, windrow. When the hay is in the windrow, getting rain on it does not do near as much damage to it as if it was laying in a mower swath. If you turn a Haybine windrow and it gets rained on, you have hay that is close to that which has already gone through the cow. Leave it in place until it dries enough to bale. Of course, with every rule, there is an exception. If you need to speed up drying and can be assured of good weather until you bale, tipping it with a rake is ok. If any doubt, leave it as cut.

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Jim

10-13-2003 23:23:04




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 Re: Things that cut hay... in reply to Red, 10-13-2003 19:27:10  
A good rule of thumb is to stay with what you are comfortable with, not only in operating, but maintaining. A mower is simpler, easier to store, and if your mower is paid for, cheaper.

There are definitely down sides to a sickle mower, but I figure the down side is not bad enough to warrant the extra $$$$ for a disc mower, or the extra $$$$ it takes to maintain a Haybine. My 2 cents worth!



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Sid

10-13-2003 19:53:03




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 Re: Things that cut hay... in reply to Red, 10-13-2003 19:27:10  
My opinion a good sickle mower is better than a worn out haybine ,I have tried them both. All things being equal a haybine is much better than a sickle mower. I have seen a lot of people cut with a disc mower and they look to be as good as everybody says they are. Having said that I think a haybine in fair shape is a good compromise between a sickle and a disc mower. It does cost more to maintain a haybine but it does more so I think it balances out in the long run. I have nothing against disc mowers but I have nothing against a Rols Royce either but thay has got to be a lotta money at my disposal before I ever own one.

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Farmertee

10-15-2003 17:38:11




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 Re: Re: Things that cut hay... in reply to Sid, 10-13-2003 19:53:03  
I mow about 100 acres each year and have a NH 489 with stub guards. Best haybine I think for the buck. One good pointer that someone else mentioned was to get the bolt on knife replacements they are a lot easier to fix than rivets. Rivets you have to pull out the whole cutterbar bolts you can fix right in the machine. I run my 489 with a 60 hp tractor have ran it with a 40 hp tractor also except that tractor is a gas tractor and the govenors start jumping. Also the 489 with stub guards will not plug as much at the center of the field. A good used one in my area of PA is between $2500 to 5000$. If you can afford a newer model the 1465 is the one you want. I've seen those anywhere from $6000 up to $9000 used.

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