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Implement Alley Discussion Forum

Driveway Advice

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Joe

10-06-2003 12:04:29

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Need driveway advice: Our driveway is about 1/3 of a mile long and has a couple of hills and dales. When it rains a lot the driveway really gets rutted out. Sometimes the ruts get extremely bad to the point were it requires some creative driving. A couple of years ago (5 maybe) we had about 3 dump trucks of rock put on a small section of the driveway. Over the last couple of years I have come to believe that the grass burm growing down the middle is helpful in that it keeps the rain under control to some extent. So now we have a long driveway that has two lanes of dirt/rock and a good sized grass burm growing down the middle. Due to the hurricane the driveway recently got really messed up. I took my tractor down the driveway and used the loader (going in reverse) to really grade one short section. I managed to fix the one section, but it is not so great. It is really hard to grade with the loader because you have to go backwards and use the brakes to steer because your front end is off the ground.

Anyway, I am pretty sure I want to get rid of the grass burm at this point and I am pretty sure I need to get a back blade. The problem with the grass burm is that it makes the driveway extremely hard to fix up. Also, the grass in the middle is a pain to mow because you have to be careful not to knick up the mower blades.

I am not sure where all of this rock we had delivered a few years ago has gotten itself off to?
Is it buried under a thin layer of dirt?
Do I need to get a blade and aggressively turn up the driveway until I get the good stone back to the top again?
Do I get a blade the same width as my driveway or do I want one that is narrower so I can shape a crown?
Do I just go to TSC and get one of these $150 king cutter blades or do I go to the JD dealer and get a ridiculously expensive woods or something?

Once I get the driveway back in shape I want to get some new stone. I believe we got something called #2 last time which was quite large in size. We were thinking that the bigger the stone the less it would wash. This is may be true, but it didn�t work as well as we had planned. The large stone made for a rough ride and didn�t seem to ever compact well.

Would crusher run or hard pack be better?

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Cliff Neubauer

10-08-2003 19:12:49

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Re: Driveway Advice in reply to Joe, 10-06-2003 12:04:29

Last fall a neighbor put up a hog confinement building in the edge of a field putting in a new circle driveway to it. They put the fabric in under it and after a year of loaded semi's being in and out of there it still looks like the day they put the gravel in. A road grader would be the best item for the job, a month or so ago I watched an older model that ran sell for $600 and I'm still kicking myself for not buying it, a good 3pt blade would cost more than that.

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Carsten

10-07-2003 14:14:36

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Re: Driveway Advice in reply to Joe, 10-06-2003 12:04:29

The other reason for me to choose a skidsteer, I have a 773, were the rocks. Our dirt is minimum 50% sandstone. My wife use it for planting trees I use it to tilt trees.
Besides that it is more fun than a tractor and it is amazing where you can take it when you get more experienced.

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Carsten

10-07-2003 14:06:41

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Re: Driveway Advice in reply to Joe, 10-06-2003 12:04:29

I know what you say about the rocks disappearing. We got 30 acres 3 years ago and in one very wet, muddy spot we had 5 loads of 3inch dumped before we had solid ground. I use a skidsteer for working on the road and I think it is a lot better than a box blade. It can grade and break the surface if needed and I normally go back over it several times in float with the bucket almost flat to compress the gravel. It also helps to do this when you had a bit of rain and it will stay dry for a bit. Otherwise you will just be removing a lot of the binder from the gravel.
With hills/ slopes and slants it is important to keep the water away from the road otherwise it will destroy all the work you put in to make the road nice and free of ruts and bumps. So before you put a lot of money into gravel etc. make certain you ditches are correct and you do not have water travelling down or across the road.
The forest service has some very good information on how to construct this types of roads.
If you don't do it right from the beginning you will be spending a lot of money on gravel over the years.

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Joe

10-07-2003 07:07:16

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Re: Driveway Advice in reply to Joe, 10-06-2003 12:04:29

Thanks for all of the input.

I think I will look into a box blade. I was under the impression that a box blade was good at moving loose stone around, but that it could not dig in very well. I guess I was wrong about that. I don�t think I have any purpose for a skid steer loader. While they are very maneuverable, my tractor is pretty handy and about 3 times heavier. I think I will go about things in this order . . . . Correct me if I am wrong.

1) Remove grass center burm with loader
2) Aggressively dig up and grade with a box blade
3) See what I get and look into some new rock and/or the geotextile fabric

We are in MD on top of a hill so we have clay and a good amount of big rock under the ground. The lane is an old county road that they deserted about 80 years ago. I'll see what the local quarry recommends in terms of rock.

I like the I-beam idea for the long run because it seems to me that once I get the lane straightened out that it would be a good thing to drag around with a chain and you would not run into a "washboard" problem like you might with a blade that is rigidly attached to your tractor.

The idea of hiring a grader is probably a good one, but I really just want more toys for my tractor and more excuses to use it ;>)

Should the box blade I get be the same width as the driveway or slightly less?

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Joyce

10-07-2003 17:50:44

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Re: Re: Driveway Advice in reply to Joe, 10-07-2003 07:07:16

Good choices.
One "warning": As someone else pointed out, excessive dragging of the driveway will tend to let the smaller parts of the rock (dust and lime) settle to the bottom and roll the larger rocks (1"-2" dia.) to the top, making them roll instead of pack. The less you actually drag and grade the rock the better, and the wetter the rock when you do it the better off you will be - by keeping the small and large particles well mixed.
Good Luck.

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paul

10-07-2003 08:03:45

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Re: Re: Driveway Advice in reply to Joe, 10-07-2003 07:07:16

You need to size the box blade to your tractor, not the road! Most of the time you want a box just a little wider than your tractor.

--->Paul

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Joe

10-07-2003 08:07:33

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Re: Re: Re: Driveway Advice in reply to paul, 10-07-2003 08:03:45

Not sure what you mean by size it to the tractor?

Are we talking HP or actual dimensions.

The tractor is a 1964 International 504. It is in the 40-50hp range. It has a category 1 3-point and the rear end is about 5 feet wide from outer tire edge to outer tire edge.

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paul

10-07-2003 11:57:17

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Driveway Advice in reply to Joe, 10-07-2003 08:07:33

Well, a litle of each. :)

A rear 3pt blade you might want bigger, to move snow or loose sand or something. But a box blade ends up being a heavy tillage tool, you probably want a 5' one for your tractor. If your tractor is a little wider, 6' probably works - it's going to depend on how you use the box blade really, more for transporting loose stuff it can be bigger, for real digging with the bars & deeper scraping you want narrower. Certainly not a 10 or 12' one, would take something on tracks to pull those big industrial models! :)

The wider you get, the less depth, less digging with the teeth, you can do.

--->Paul

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joe

10-07-2003 12:57:22

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Driveway Advice in reply to paul, 10-07-2003 11:57:17

Thanks, that makes a lot of sense. I will probably go with a 5ft wide box blade.

I assume one can angle a box blade like a regular blade to create a slight crown, correct?

Thanks for all the help you guys.

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ShepFL

10-07-2003 06:44:03

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Re: Driveway Advice in reply to Joe, 10-06-2003 12:04:29

First to make it last you need a fabric "sheild" just like others have mentioned. Then your filler material.

Here are a couple links for DIY

Link

Check the archives also for another good link - I think it is from NC on road construction. I cannot find it in my favorites at this time.

HTH

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Richard Fazio

10-07-2003 06:11:26

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Re: Driveway Advice in reply to Joe, 10-06-2003 12:04:29

The indydirtfarmer is correct on the implement. A box blade is the way to go. It will scrape up the gravel and smooth it out nice. I use a back blade and a box on my 1000ft drive. The back blade is good on stuff you can easily move and will crown the road nice. But if it is packed down hard stuff, you need the box with scarfers.

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JohnM

10-07-2003 19:36:18

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Re: Re: Driveway Advice in reply to Richard Fazio, 10-07-2003 06:11:26

Can you clear snow with a box scraper or does it just dump it back on the driveway when the box fills?

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Indydirtfarmer

10-07-2003 02:49:53

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Re: Driveway Advice in reply to Joe, 10-06-2003 12:04:29

The geotextile will make the best drive you can "build". That would require LOTS of work to get ready. But that's what needs to be done, for a long term driveway. Your question was more about WHAT IMPLIMENT though. If you HAVE to buy something, the "most for the least", would be a good grader box. I've seen NEW ones for as little as $275, for a 6'. You would be able to maintain a finished drive, as well as to do most of the work building an entirely new drive. I just finished a new drive, into a farm we bought this summer. 3000'. I did it ALL with an inexpensive 6' box. Car/truck traffic will pack it down soon enough. Ours is already VERY firm. (Loaded grain trucks, and 15,000 lb tractors will do that) Hope this helps, John

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John K

10-06-2003 22:09:13

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Re: Driveway Advice in reply to Joe, 10-06-2003 12:04:29

I bought 20 acres a year ago, the lane way is 1000 feet long with parallel ruts in some spots 14 inches deep. In June of this year I had a grader come in and redo the lane way, make ditches, fill in a ravine, cut down 2 feet of grade at the top and widen out the parking lot at the top. He took 6 hours to do this at 100.00 per hour. Money well spent, he did things with that grader that I would not believe possible. He also spead crushed gravel on all the work. He ran into some bed rock as the property is at the top of the highest hill in the area. I use a 6 x 16 x 1/2" x 9 foot long I beam rigged so that when I pull it the left side is slightly behind that of the right hand side to keep the road and parking lot smooth. Used this way, the beam moves a bit of the gravel to the left. Depending on which side of the lane you pull the beam, you control where the gravel ends up. This beam is actualy to heavy, I need to cut some big holes in the web to lighten it and to allow the build up of gravel to fall down, other wise it piles up on top of the beam and scrapes deeper. I got this idea at a tractor pull except they used 6 inch pipe cut down in the middle. The two halves were welded about 18 inches one behind the other and on an angle.

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kyhayman

10-06-2003 18:44:31

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Re: Driveway Advice in reply to Joe, 10-06-2003 12:04:29

Do yourself a favor and spend the $150 on renting a skid steer loader for a day. Use it to grade cut and fill the driveway. Then rock it. Make sure you ditch both sides.

Another option if you can get your old rock up is like Joyce mentioned, geotextile (I would rent a skid steer and not fool with a blade on this unless I rented a dozer, this is a big job). Our local NRCS office sells it at cost. $1 per linear foot, 12' wide. Then put 4" of #2 and 4" of dense grade.

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Joyce

10-06-2003 19:17:34

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Re: Re: Driveway Advice in reply to kyhayman, 10-06-2003 18:44:31

ARe you sure a skid-steer would have the necessary weight to do the gradework on a rutted driveway? Probably not if the soil is clay that's been sun-baked. But if what you got is silt or sand, it may do fine.
A box grader with ripping tines set lower than the blade may be worth thinking about to re-grade with if you have clay.
And yes, ditches to keep the water from gathering on the driveway is a necessity. Preventing the problem is cheaper than fixing the mess.
If a dozer is in the neighborhood it may be worth it - a couple hours with a dozer can make short work of a rutted driveway.
By the way, I'm a KY NRCS'er.

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Joyce

10-06-2003 17:51:43

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Re: Driveway Advice in reply to Joe, 10-06-2003 12:04:29

We built a new house 2 years ago with a 1200 ft. long driveway. Prior to construction, we knew there were a couple of wet spots and that we had to do about 8 ft. of fill across a drainage-way. With less than 4" of Dense grade (also known as 610's and traffic bound) and 2 years later, we don't have so much as a pothole. The secret? Woven Geotextile fabric. We rolled the stuff out on the bare dirt, then had the rock trucks back up the driveway and spread the rockon top of the fabric as they dumped in reverse.
How it works: The geotextile keeps the rock and dirt seperated - essentially "floating" the rock on top of the dirt. Rock is heavier than dirt, so when the dirt gets wet, the rocks sink down into it - that's where your loads of rock went - down.
So, if your driveway is in pretty bad shape, you might want to look into just starting over with woven geotextile. But be warned: whenever there is lots of rock under the geotextile before you put rock on top of the geotextile, the rock tends to shred it.
Where to find it: Some farm supply stores and definitely at construction supply stores.
Geotextile fabric is now widely used in agriculture to create passable roads and gateways and most highway construction tops the gradework with geotextile before putting down the stone base.
I'll be glad to answer any questions. And no, I'm not a distributor, I'm an engineer.
An internet search will also yield lots of info.

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allen

10-14-2003 18:46:24

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Re: Re: Driveway Advice in reply to Joyce, 10-06-2003 17:51:43

You have the correct answer. I would only add that a 4"-6" layer of good "packing" sand would be a good way to start, before the fabric, then go over the top with stone. I have also seen success with a layer of sand on top of the fabric, then the stone.

P.S. - I have sold construction equipment for 10 years. If there is one thing I have learned it is that there are many correct answers, just one or two that work really well for the given situation.

Allen

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Joyce (KY)

10-15-2003 03:38:12

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Re: Re: Re: Driveway Advice in reply to allen, 10-14-2003 18:46:24

Great idea

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Mr.T

10-07-2003 02:38:00

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Re: Re: Driveway Advice in reply to Joyce, 10-06-2003 17:51:43

Joyce,
I wish I had known about Geotextile 6mo. ago when I started to build a 1000' road. Just put in $12,000 worth of gravel and now I don't know if it will last!
Mr.T

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Robert in W. Mi

10-06-2003 16:53:00

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Re: Driveway Advice in reply to Joe, 10-06-2003 12:04:29

Put dolamite (crushed lime stone) on the bad sections. It packs and gets hard like pavement. When it delivered, get them to spread it out a little as they dump it, and you can finish it with your tractor. It's NOT cheap, but it sure works! Robert

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Jim Handke

10-06-2003 15:34:23

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Re: Driveway Advice in reply to Joe, 10-06-2003 12:04:29

We use 1 1/2" rock for driveways. Either crusher run or screened. My neighbor took his 3 bottom plow worked his driveway up a few years ago. That puts a nice ditch on each side. Then work it down with a rear blade. An inexpensive one will work in this case.

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Kenneth W Jockisch

10-06-2003 23:23:58

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Re: Re: Driveway Advice in reply to Jim Handke, 10-06-2003 15:34:23

Here in Illinois we use what is called CA-6. I believe it is crushed limestone. Thats what I have in my drive and I cant get my 2 bottom plow to hardly even go in when I tried to rough it up to reblade and level. It does make for a very hard drive with a fairly smmoth ride. A road grader would be the best way to roll your drive side to side and bring the layers of rock up from over the years and make a some waterways down the side, that is if you can get a operator who knows what he/she is doing. What would be even cheaper if you are friends with your local road commisoner or see what he would charge. Might be a real discount rather than hiring a contractor. As far as a skidsteer goes, it would be about the same as using your tractor. I have never seen one work very good unless it's all new rock and then it's not a very good guarentee since they are very touchy especially if it's had a lot of use. A box blade would be a better investment in your case as of right now and a back blade later down the road.

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