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Implement Alley Discussion Forum

Plowing 101...again.

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Scott-NC

09-19-2003 10:55:54




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After frustrated attempts to plow in what passes for dirt in N.C.; red clay, I asked for advice on the "N" forum. I use a '47 2N with a single bottom moldboard type plow. It is set-up as per Zanes advice, that is; run the right side up on blocks, make a line under the tractor on it's centerline, adjust the plow point and bottom, etc. After all that I still had trouble with the tractor wanting to turn right and the plow either burying itself or riding on top of the ground. I origionally used stabilizer bars which I was later told to remove. I did so and while the tractor then plowed in a straighter line, the chains that hook to the lower lift arms and the pto cover were loaded by the plow and that made me nervious. Plus, the plow still couldn't make up it's mind as to how deep it wanted to plow. In a fit of frustration I attached limiter chains and pointed the plow down a bit. The plow now maintains a consistent depth and the tractor plows in a reasonably straight line. Now, to make a long story longer, my questions are: Is it a good idea to use limiter chains in this manner? What is the accepted method of setting up a 3pt, single bottom plow for this rock hard clay when using an antique tractor? Was I right that the small chains going from the pto cover to the lower lift arms should not be used to control the plow? Thanks!

Scott-NC

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Richard Fazio

09-22-2003 16:22:59




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 Re: Plowing 101...again. in reply to Scott-NC, 09-19-2003 10:55:54  
What keith said. I think maybe you have to wait for the soil to be a little more damp. I did mine when it was damp in the spring and the plow went deep and stayed there. Too wet and your slipping and sliding and getting nothing done. The soil condition is very important especially for a clay soil field untouched for many years.



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KeithF

09-22-2003 08:29:07




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 Re: Plowing 101...again. in reply to Scott-NC, 09-19-2003 10:55:54  
I have both a Ferguson single and Dearborn two bottom plow I use behind my Ferguson 20. First, from experience if you have a lot of clay then plow when the ground is damp (not completely wet). Plowing clay ground when it is dry is a waste of time as the plow is jumping all over the place trying to penetrate the hard surface. If the plow is pulling the tractor around then the plow needs more adjustment. If you followed Zane's instruction the rearmost part of the share should be on the same line as the innermost surface of the rear tire. If not, then loosen the clamps on the plow mount and slide it to that position. The bottom needs to ride flat on the ground and that's why the tractor wheel is on a block while the leveling arm on the 3pt is used to angle the plow so it will be flat against the ground. The last thing is the angle of the rear of the plow is adjusted with the crossbar mount. On a Ferguson the crossbar has an offset and on a Dearborn the crossbar is straight, but is angled by a cam type device. On my Ferguson I set the offset about 45 degrees from straight up and down. On the Dearborn its not as much since it is a two bottom. Playing with this adjustment should make your plow go straight without pulling. Good luck.

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Richard Fazio

09-20-2003 14:20:43




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 Re: Plowing 101...again. in reply to Scott-NC, 09-19-2003 10:55:54  
I'm not an expert at all, but I have plowed with a 2N. Mine worked perfectly right out of the shute so I can't tell you how to adjust it. One thing though, you mentioned not having position control and that contributing to the problem. From everything I've read you don't use position control when plowing. That's the only time your 2N has the correct hydrolics, for plowing. You may have a problem with your draft control system. What's supposed to happen is as you hit harder ground the plow pulls harder and it compresses the big spring on the top of your 3point setup. This will cause the plow to raise slightly until the pull is lessened. As the soil gets softer the plow goes deeper. If that's not working it could be contributing to your problems. The big spring is on a shaft that enters your top cover. It's not unlikely that it's rusted stuck. You shouldn't need limiter chains, though I can't see how they would hurt.

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Scott

09-21-2003 07:37:58




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 Re: Re: Plowing 101...again. in reply to Richard Fazio, 09-20-2003 14:20:43  
Richard you're right, I'd forgotten that about the position control, maybe this clay soils the trouble then. Just when I think the I've got the plow to run at a reasonable depth...up it comes! Tweek the top link a wee bit and it heads for China, bogs the tractor or the tires slip. The opposite can also be the case. The lift (pump, valves, pto shaft and the linkages inside) has been rebuilt, replaced or adjusted to as close to spec as I could find information to do so. Prehaps the soil is such a tough pull that the lift thinks the plow has hit something and raises it up? Even with the limiter chains installed I can't plow very deep because of the power necessary to do so, but they allow me to point the plow down a bit to keep it in the ground with the chains preventing the plow from burying itself. Again, my question is: Are using limiter chains like this dangerous or hard on the tractor?

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paul

09-20-2003 00:39:03




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 Re: Plowing 101...again. in reply to Scott-NC, 09-19-2003 10:55:54  
It's better to have the plow follow you, & not be using an anti-sway chain (or bar). You still have something adjusted not quite right if it is pulling a lot to one side. A bit of wander when soil conditions change is acceptable. Hard to one side all the time is not really.

In hard dry clay it is difficult to get good penetration. I don't see any problems with the limiter chains - if you stress them too much, the chain would break - not such a big deal.

How new & full are the landsides & plow lays? Worn lays can make it almost impossible to get the plow to penetrate so you will try to angle it down too much, Worn landsides cause it to slide to the left. Do you have a rear wheel to follow in the furrow, or just a long landside?

It is really good to try to center a plow on the tractor - but with one bottom, you need to have the plow way over to the right side - makes it difficult. The left wheel pulls more, so the right one either slips on soft ground, or pulls more on hard ground, upsetting the tractor to one side or the other. Never used an N, so don't know, but are you supposed to (can you?) set the wheels in on the right side as much as possible? That helps a lot with trailer plows. Can your plow slide left or right somewhere to line it up with the rear wheel, and do you have it set right?

The first round is always difficult, as is working with a rusty or unused plow. Have you made several rounds & are now following in the furrow with a shiny plow? Should be working better at that point, might be a struggle until.

Single bottom plows can be a little harder to set, and I've never used a true 3-point plow, so I'm probably not the best guy to be rambling on about this... ;) Hope I'm not doing more damage than good!

--->Paul

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Scott-NC

09-20-2003 07:45:14




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 Re: Re: Plowing 101...again. in reply to paul, 09-20-2003 00:39:03  
Thanks guy's. The shin and point are new. The landside is like new and fairly long. I have replaced the lower lift arm ends and all the various pins to reduce slop. The tires are new front and back. Steering is tight. the hydraulic lift was rebuilt last winter. The clay soil and the lack of a position control on this model tractor makes it a tightrope walk to get the plow deep enough to be worthwhile but not bury itself. Of course the tractor hasn't enough power to pull the plow at full depth with the lift arms bottomed on the axle housing. So I adjust. Just about the time you get it to where it appears that just one more slight tweek on the top link and it'll be perfect...up comes the plow. Also, it seems that the harder the pull the more likely the chance the tractor will want to turn right. When you adjust to lessen the pull, the dirt doesn't fill in the previous furrow. That leads to slidding the plow over, but the tire gets in the way. As it stands right now, the limiter chains are working. The plow doesn't hit the tire, the previous furrow gets filled, the depth (7-8 inches) is maintained, the tractor isn't slipping the tires and the tractor drives in an acceptably straight line. Thing is, I don't know if chains are a good idea used in this manner. Am I going to learn another lesson the hard way? I'd rather not be the one one with first hand experience of what it tears-up.

Scott-NC

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Doug

09-19-2003 12:35:06




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 Re: Plowing 101...again. in reply to Scott-NC, 09-19-2003 10:55:54  
If it's pulling to one side, I think you need to adjust the even more. It should pull fairly straight without pulling to one side all of the time. Once I got mine adjusted this way, it was fun to plow.



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