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Implement Alley Discussion Forum

?'s Puttin' in a pure stand of alfalfa for

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Farmer Tom

09-18-2003 09:16:19




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hay. Cut and baled hay for years, but never had the experience of putting in a new field. I understand ground preperation, but don't understand the mechanics of planting/seeding as far as equipment goes. Want to plant about 16 - 20#'s of alfalfa seed per acre with a cover crop of oats at a planting rate of 3/4 - 1 bushel per acre. I was thinking of using a grain drill with a seeder on it. Will this work to get the rates I expect to plant? Or will a broadcast seeder work? Is there a better way, etc.? I am talking about 4 acres that right now is in soybeans located in central Ohio and expect to plant next April.

Sure would like to hear from all you experts out there on this, as I need to be "enlightened" on the subject. Your thoughts/comments/suggestions will be really appreciated!

As always, Thanks, - Farmer Tom

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Greywolf

09-20-2003 07:03:09




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 Re: ?'s Puttin' in a pure stand of alfalfa for in reply to Farmer Tom, 09-18-2003 09:16:19  
something that is catching on around here. Did an experiment 6 yrs ago.

Fertilizer dealer added the alfalfa seed to a fert slurry and applied. I followed with a drag, dragged twice perpendicular (checker board).

No cover crop. Done in spring (mid april MN). Best stand of alfalfa I've ever seen. At 3 leaf stage of growth sprayed with Buctril for broadleafs. Took a nice crop of "foxtail" grass hay off in July. End of August took a pure stand of alfalfa cutting. 3 years ago, ripped it twice with a DMI Ecolotiger and interseeded a 4 grass blend for horse hay. Alfalfa grass blend is perfect today yet (over 50% alfalfa). 6 yr stand of alfalfa still going strong. This year on a 7 acres field have taken close to 1400 50# small squares off in 3 cuttings.

When i do a new field, will do the same way. No cover crop for alfalfa for me any more.

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kyhayman

09-19-2003 19:47:09




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 Re: ?'s Puttin' in a pure stand of alfalfa for in reply to Farmer Tom, 09-18-2003 09:16:19  
In Ohio you will have very similar situations that we have here in KY. Fall seeding is a gamble with Scelortinia, spring is a gamble with Aphanomyces. You can get Aphanomyces resistence.I like to plant cover crop wheat after beans. Knock it back just as it starts to elongate in the sping with 3/4 pint of Gramoxone and drill the alfalfa (I use all grazing types) with a 10' Haybuster no til drill that local NRCS rents for $5.00 per acre. I cut 60 days after seeding (wheat will be decent by this time, too). Then I like to cut 60 days later aand drill in timothy or orchard grass if the field is weed free. If it isn't I wait a year and do a dormant Gramoxone treatment. Try to do 20-25 acres a year like this. All of it is goin in after double crop rye (or wheat) and then beans. For seeding I used to use 20# of pelleted seed per acre. Last year I changed and used 15# of alfalfa and 5# of pelleted lime per acre, really seemed to do better. pH was in the mid 6's and coming up but it seemed that little dose of lime right in the root zone really improved first year nodulation.

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Jason

09-19-2003 15:43:57




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 Re: ?'s Puttin' in a pure stand of alfalfa for in reply to Farmer Tom, 09-18-2003 09:16:19  
let me just chime in here with a couple of points. Think about adding a 2,4DB (Buturac 200)application to your program. Here in New England spring plantings have more weed pressure put on them than fall ones. I myself prefere spring plantings, I have had trouble with fall thunder storms eroding new seedings before they are fully established. I don't care for nurse crops with alfalfa, they die out and leave holes. I prefere to plant a mixed stand. What I like do is have two different varieties of alfalfa, a multi-leaf and a leaf hopper resistant are what I'm using currently. A improved timothy that will mature with alfalfa, currently using Chazy. An improved Red Clover, marathon and some ladino white clover. If I was growing hay for horses I would drop the clovers. Take a look at your states extendtion service for info on this subject. You probably can download all the info you need for what works in your area from Ohio State U. Good Luck J

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Mike (WA)

09-19-2003 09:20:54




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 Re: ?'s Puttin' in a pure stand of alfalfa for in reply to Farmer Tom, 09-18-2003 09:16:19  
If you do decide to broadcast, you'll need to do them separately- Otherwise the jiggling of the broadcaster will have all the tiny alfalfa seed settled into the bottom of the unit by the time you're half done, and the second half of the load will be pure oats.



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Jimmy King

09-19-2003 05:24:31




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 Re: ?'s Puttin' in a pure stand of alfalfa for in reply to Farmer Tom, 09-18-2003 09:16:19  
I have never sowed alfalfa in spring always in fall, but here in SW Mo. a lot of people do sow in spring. I have always used a drill with a seeder box take the tubes and boots off and let the seed fall from the box. I then use a field roller, My Uncle does it the same way but follows with a culipacker. I have sowed straight alfalfa and I have sowed 3 pounds of orchard grass very good hay either way. In fall I have never used a cover crop in spring I might?

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Steve

09-18-2003 22:47:10




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 Re: ?'s Puttin' in a pure stand of alfalfa for in reply to Farmer Tom, 09-18-2003 09:16:19  
I've gone away from seeding oats and alfalfa/grass seed together. I seed my oats alone early in the spring, like always. Then after combining and baling the straw, I give it a light disking and seed the alfalfa/grass seed and cultipack. Even in a dry year, it will work. I always had problems with the oats going down and killing out my alfalfa stand.



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RJ-AZ

09-18-2003 16:47:46




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 Re: ?'s Puttin' in a pure stand of alfalfa for in reply to Farmer Tom, 09-18-2003 09:16:19  
I have seeded the oats with a standard grain drill (both disc or shovel type). Then broadcast seeded the alfalfa with a broadcast PTO seeder pulling a harrow the following up with a packer.My grandad had a hand crank type broadcast seeder that he used on his turkey lots around 1949 or so.The rates mentioned are good but mother nature has to cooperate also.I like to cut the oats for hay but you gotta get that right also. There is a hay barley seed available that my brother uses, I don't know the variety.

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paul

09-18-2003 10:39:51




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 Re: ?'s Puttin' in a pure stand of alfalfa for in reply to Farmer Tom, 09-18-2003 09:16:19  
The broadcast seeder will work.

The drill with grass seeder will work better. That is what I use.

Normally we seed oats at 3 bu per acre. With alfalfa I seed it 2 bu per acre & harvest the oats for grain. If you wish to cut it for hay I guess you can go as low as a bu, altho some drills have a hard time metering out at less than a bu....

The alfalfa you want in 1/4 - 1/2" of dirt - good firm dirt - work it right before hand, so the dirt is firm but quite fine on the surface. Do NOT seed the alfalfa into the oats trenches. You want it on top of the ground. Then follow your drill (or spreader) with a packer if you can get your hands on one, or a harrow (drag) set real angled - not much tooth. Might want to go over 2 times with that. Alfalfa seed wants to be in _very_ shallow, in very firm ground, and get moisture fairly soon.

Now, the difficult part - calibrating the drill (or spreader)! Anything with any wear on it you really won't be able to go by the number chart - those alfalfa seeds are so tiny, any little variation in the linkage will double or 1/2 the rate you were aiming for. The good news is that doubling the alfalfa rate won't hurt anything but your pocketbook. ;)

--->Paul

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JMS/MN

09-18-2003 09:48:00




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 Re: ?'s Puttin' in a pure stand of alfalfa for in reply to Farmer Tom, 09-18-2003 09:16:19  
Grain drill with a grass seeder will do a much better job than broadcasting. The seed needs to go INTO the ground- not on top. If you use a packer behind the drill, you can cut the alfalfa seed rate to 10-12 lbs per acre. Alfalfa/grass seed is put out by the seeder on top of the ground, but if press it in with a packer (Brillion, etc.) you can reduce rates. Grain needs to go into the ground. That rate for oats is light- normally go about 3 bushels per acre. Barley is a good cover crop- use 1 1/2 bu per acre- lighter stand lets more light into the undergrowth (alfalfa), and the barley feed is about 92& of the feed value of corn. Without a packer, normal alfalfa seeding rate is about 15 lbs per acre.

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Indydirtfarmer

09-18-2003 09:45:54




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 Re: ?'s Puttin' in a pure stand of alfalfa for in reply to Farmer Tom, 09-18-2003 09:16:19  
Let's start with a question for your question. What kind of seeder(s) do you have access to? A broadcast seeder will work. I have done exactly what you are trying to do with one several times. I now use a JD750 no-till drill for seeding hayfields. That's a bit drastic for 4 acres though. I have a Brillion (don't remember the model #) seeder that I use to seed lawns for several home builders in the area. Woods makes a simalar unit that I've rented in the past. Most grain drills have grass seed attachments available. So, to make the whole thing more confusing, you can do what you want to do, in a number of ways. None of them are "wrong" but some will work better than others. It all boils down to what you can get your hands on to do it with.

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Indydirtfarmer

09-18-2003 09:52:56




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 Re: Re: ?'s Puttin' in a pure stand of alfalfa for in reply to Indydirtfarmer, 09-18-2003 09:45:54  
Oops! I forgot to mention, The way I seed oats and alfalfa, is to mix the seed in a proper ratio, then to seed it as you would any small grain. Most any grain drill will do the trick. Like I said, I use my 750 no-till drill. I was afraid that the mention of a grass seed attachment would confuse you. The brillion seeder that I talked about would seed oats, but tended to plug up from time to time. Use a grain drill or broadcast. Both will get the job done.

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