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Implement Alley Discussion Forum

Haybine clogs

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Debbie B

08-27-2003 19:48:06

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This seems to happen quite often... I get hay clogged on the guards and knives and I have to back up to clear it (which sometimes causes it to clog in the rollers) and by the time I notice it, I've gone 100 feet with whole sections that are now uncut. What am I doing wrong? Any adjustments I should be making? Does reel speed cause this? Am I running too fast? too slow? Sometimes it seems the faster I go, the less it clogs, as if the speed is helping throw the hay through the rollers. Is there an easy answer to this?

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Don-WI

08-28-2003 19:18:40

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Re: Haybine clogs in reply to Debbie B, 08-27-2003 19:48:06

What type of machine is it? JD, NI, NH? Other? One rule of thumb is, match the speed of the reel,never faster and sometimes slower, if the crop is knocked down or really thick. I run a NI 290 and had some problems in really thin grass, basically like what you find in your front yard and cut with a lawn mower. If the grass is a broader leaf, you shouldn't have any problems in it, same with alfalfa, clover, or the other normal crops. Just adjusted mine alot, adjusted when the reel dropped the hay infront of crimper rolls, sped up the reel, and now it works much better and faster. Main question is, what are you cutting?
Donovan from Wisconsin

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Debbie B

08-28-2003 19:26:53

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Re: Re: Haybine clogs in reply to Don-WI, 08-28-2003 19:18:40

Just cutting fescue and mixed grasses, using a NH 472. This time, the grass is dry, not thin, but not knocked done either.

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Don-WI

08-28-2003 19:36:12

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Re: Re: Re: Haybine clogs in reply to Debbie B, 08-28-2003 19:26:53

Then I would look at the cutter bar, either what others said that the bar sin't making a full cut either way, or the knives a really dull. I'm not familiar with the NH models, but the cutter bar should be relatively easy to take out, as they should be designed that way for easy fixing of multible broken knives or whatever. You can grind off the old rivets, take one of the old knives to a dealer and they will make sure you get the right ones(they have onder, over, and non-serrated knives, as well as the hole spacing of differnet manufacturers of cutterbars. We have 2 sickles for our machine, and they both have different hole spacing because one is the original (that I'm aware of) and the other was a replacement put in our other machine before it went to heck. really nice when you break a sickel, just take out a bolt, then the pin, pull out the old one and reverse for the spare sickel. can change it in less than 10 min. and be back in the feild.
Donovan from Wisconsin

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Vt farmer

08-28-2003 18:32:57

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Re: Haybine clogs in reply to Debbie B, 08-27-2003 19:48:06

Going on the asumption that the mower is in good mechanical condition and the cutter bar in in good shape then try these:
One of the first things that you need to look at is the reel position and speed. The reel can be lowered and moved foreward to help pull the grass off of the guards. The reel speed should also be increased to help with the problem. If these ideas don't help then you might consider switching to stub guards with underserrated knifes. If your machine doesn't have the stub guards you would be amazed at the difference they make.

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Debbie B

08-28-2003 19:33:13

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Re: Re: Haybine clogs in reply to Vt farmer, 08-28-2003 18:32:57

Interesting. I don't understand the good/bad points of stub guards; always seemed that a guard covering both the top and bottom of the knife would be better. I read that moving the reel forward and down would help with heavy or down crop, but didn't know if it was necessary for "normal" cutting. Thanks.

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jw 57

08-28-2003 18:26:33

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Re: Haybine clogs in reply to Debbie B, 08-27-2003 19:48:06

Here in Va we call them rat nests. Can be a big problem.I switched to stub guards and an underserrated knife also lowered reel. Also try cutting hay after the dew gets dry.

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Charlie

08-28-2003 13:42:12

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Re: Haybine clogs in reply to Debbie B, 08-27-2003 19:48:06

I had a similar problem when I first got my 479 and then I found out the knives wouldn't cut butter. Put on some new ones and it workd fine. They need to be sharp.

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Gary in TX

08-28-2003 11:53:04

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Re: Haybine clogs in reply to Debbie B, 08-27-2003 19:48:06

First off, watch your machine more closely. When I am mowing with either my 469 haybine or my Deere 1380 hydraswing, I'm looking back at the machine more than looking forward. Your problem is probably coming from cutting a wirey type grass that the sickle(knife) and or the guards are not up to the challenge. Bad guards can cause as much trouble as a dull sickle. If you are running a sickel with a rubber bushing in it, it could be bad and causing a short cutting stroke as well. I have alot of hours in front of a haybine, hydraswing and now pushing a 14' header with a Deere 2280 self proppelled windrower. You might also try raising the cutterbar up slightly and not trying to go so low. Main thing is watch the machine more closely.

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Debbie B

08-28-2003 19:36:59

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Re: Re: Haybine clogs in reply to Gary in TX, 08-28-2003 11:53:04

Thanks. It does have a rubber bushing. How can I tell if/when it needs replacing? I have the height raised (by lowering the shoes), mainly because of uneven terrain and hidden rocks. I would say it's cutting about 6" from ground. Is that OK? Also, I've replaced all knives that were worn and all are sharp.

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Gar y in TX

08-28-2003 19:55:18

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Re: Re: Re: Haybine clogs in reply to Debbie B, 08-28-2003 19:36:59

Ok, first off if your running it and you start hearing a knocking sound and or start smelling rubber burning you will know its just about out. Also you can notice alot of slop in the sickle head just under where it bolts on. You can look at it removed from the machine and if you see alot of cracks or the rubber looking bad. As far as the height goes, thats kinda up to the conditions your working in. I cut usually around 2 to 3 inches or so and of course that can give or take as you go. What model haybine are you running. I have had a 488 and have a 469 now although I mainly am using a 14' John Deere now, both a self propelled and a hydroswing. I have alot of hours in front of a 9' New Holland though, in fact I talke a guy through a sickle belt replacement has dubbed me the "haybine man". I'm kinda flattered.
Hope this helps!

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Debbie B

08-29-2003 05:35:12

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Haybine clogs in reply to Gar y in TX, 08-28-2003 19:55:18

Thanks. I have a NH 472 (8'). I have a manual, but the manual doesn't say how to remove a sickle bar, so they must assume it is obvious but I'm not sure where to begin. If you remove the bolt (do you loosen the nut at the top?), will the bar just pull out or do you have to remove all the guards? I've been replacing knives with the bar on the haybine.

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david

08-29-2003 06:43:46

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Haybine clogs in reply to Debbie B, 08-29-2003 05:35:12

Should have a bolt with a locking nut on the left side of the mower. Remove nut and push bolt out (takes a 15/16 wrench and socket). Sickle should pull out with guards on. I would be very interested in the sections you are using. I had this same problem with smooth and over serated sections. Underserated did great.

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Debbie B

08-29-2003 07:40:15

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Haybine clogs in reply to david, 08-29-2003 06:43:46

Sections? If that means "knives", they are single-sections with serated edges on the top side. Not sure what "smooth and over serated" means. I don't think I've seen underserated knives. Do you think they'd work on my NH472? Would that require changing all the guards to stub guards?

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Rob

08-30-2003 09:16:59

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Haybine clogs in reply to Debbie B, 08-29-2003 07:40:15

How are the haying wars going? It sounds like you're on a rather steep learning curve. I'm sure you'll get the hang of your equipment and get your hay put up. Are you planning to bale or put it up loose? Don't be afraid to ask questions - it makes us oldtimers feel useful. Take care and enjoy!

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Debbie B

08-30-2003 17:52:03

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Haybine clogs in reply to Rob, 08-30-2003 09:16:59

Thanks Rob. The baler is doing great. After 2 years, I can finally make a square bale where I used to get a lopsided bale; my strings are evenly tight where I used to have one knotter that would miss every 10th bale and then that string was always too loose. Just got 300 bales off about 15 acres and they look good. Unfortunately I broke a tine bar on my rake and, can you believe, one bar costs $325... and I only paid $600 for the rake (NH55).

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david

08-29-2003 07:50:30

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Haybine clogs in reply to Debbie B, 08-29-2003 07:40:15

Yes, section and knife blade are the same. Under serated are all I've ever seen from the factory on NH haybines. What you are describing are 'overserated', smooth are not serated, underserated have the serations on the bottom.

I changed a 474 over last year when rebuilding a sickle to overserated. It will not cut grass hay or alfalfa, plugs constantly and makes a ragged cut. I mostly use it to cut wheat and soybeans for baleage (and it does great in these).

My guards are NH double heat treated full guards (not the stubs).

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markct

08-28-2003 09:16:34

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Re: Haybine clogs in reply to Debbie B, 08-27-2003 19:48:06

i was having all sortsa trouble with my 469 NH haybine plugging one morning, then finaly the bolt fell out of the end of the woble box, the bolt that connects it to the cutterbar. it looked like it had been lose for a while after looking at the bolt, i went home and got a replacement bolt and it made all the difference in the world, hardly any plugging at all, i think what had happened was the bolt being loose made it so that the cutterbar wasnt making a full stroke so it wasnt cutting at full efficiancy so ya might want to check that out. good luck, it sure gets frustrating when they keep plugging up, especialy when you dont notice it right away and have a big section of uncut hay

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Debbie B

08-28-2003 19:38:55

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Re: Re: Haybine clogs in reply to markct, 08-28-2003 09:16:34

Frustrating, yes. Good suggestion. I'll check it out. I'm a beginner at all this. Thanks a lot.

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markct

08-29-2003 11:42:45

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Re: Re: Re: Haybine clogs in reply to Debbie B, 08-28-2003 19:38:55

yep im a beginner at this too, im 20 years old and have been around tractors and equipment all my life but this is the first year i have hayed on my own. we always just bushogged our fields

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Leroy

08-28-2003 06:32:37

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Re: Haybine clogs in reply to Debbie B, 08-27-2003 19:48:06

Are the clogs from the green stuff you are trying to mow or is it from a hay crop that was left to ripen and fall down with new crop growing through, or was a crop mowed and not picked up due to spoilage? Each requires a different mode of action.

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Debbie B

08-28-2003 19:40:38

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Re: Re: Haybine clogs in reply to Leroy, 08-28-2003 06:32:37

New growth/green stuff; not old or spoiled. What approach do you suggest?

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Leroy

08-29-2003 05:30:36

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Re: Re: Re: Haybine clogs in reply to Debbie B, 08-28-2003 19:40:38

I can't help with the mechanics of it as it has been 20+ year since I used one but the answer brought out a lot more information to help others help you and that is what I was after, all that information is needed so that correct information is given.

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Rob

08-27-2003 20:27:53

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Re: Haybine clogs in reply to Debbie B, 08-27-2003 19:48:06

It sounds like a knife problem. Check that the knife is centred-with the knife section in the center of the guard the knife should travel an equal distance back and forth from center. The knife may be running too slow (slipping). The knife and/or the guards.may be worn. What are you mowing? Some crops can be more difficult to cut. Is the crop dry enough? We have something here called wire grass and it's aptly named. It could be the reel speed but not the most likely problem. Is there an easy answer? In a word-no! Good luck with it. Hope this helps.

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Debbie B

08-28-2003 19:44:21

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Re: Re: Haybine clogs in reply to Rob, 08-27-2003 20:27:53

How can I check knife stroke? I'm up on the tractor and the darn knives move too fast to tell what the heck they're doing. At least the crop is very dry this time; no rain in a while. I've replaced several knives and all are sharp and several guards are new... but now that you mention it, there are a few old guards left that the knives have cut into the bottom of the guard, basically making a new groove. Could that really be the whole problem?

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jw 57

08-29-2003 15:07:32

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Re: Re: Re: Haybine clogs in reply to Debbie B, 08-28-2003 19:44:21

On a 472 ,remove pto shaft from tractor,then turn the conditioning rolls by hand to get machine to move slowly. You have full or rock guards on your machine from your posts. The ones which are grooved need replacing .I was having alot of problems with my 488 this year until I adjusted the reel. Also put the knife assembly which had underserrated sections ("knives") bach in. Cutting better now. until then I kept thinking about a discbine but by the time I got nerve enough to ask They had sold out

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jw 57

08-29-2003 15:09:32

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Haybine clogs in reply to jw 57 , 08-29-2003 15:07:32

Check your belts for proper slack and chains also.

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Rob

08-28-2003 20:03:09

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Re: Re: Re: Haybine clogs in reply to Debbie B, 08-28-2003 19:44:21

Could be. Is there some hay caught/jammed between the knife and the guards? That's a good sign of poor cutting. As for centering/timing the knife, it's done by turning the pto slowly by hand and watching/measuring the knife travel. Obviously, this is potentially dangerous - be careful! The are different ways of adjusting the travel according to the make and design. You should have the owner's manual - it will explain the whole procedure. Check with the dealer/rep if you're not sure what to do. Good luck with it. Happy Haying!

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