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Implement Alley Discussion Forum

Timothy or Orchard grass

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Ridr

08-18-2003 19:07:00

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OK guys , finished with the culti tonight , I have two fields one 7 and one 8 acres ready to seed (picking seed up tomorrow) was going to go all Timothy but now that it is time i am second guessing myself. Fields are both topland , decent but not great yet on fertility , a little high on the PH but lime is coming. Would you go timothy , orchard , one field each ?? plan on seeding in clover this winter. Already have a strong Alfalfa supply , wanting some grass hay... need advise or opinions please !!

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Huckleberry

08-20-2003 05:09:13

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Re: Timothy or Orchard grass in reply to Ridr, 08-18-2003 19:07:00

I don't know where you are located. I live in North Central Missouri ~ ...have you looked at switchgrass? In my experience it will outlast, outperform most cool season grasses. You can try it on one of your fields. It takes more fertility, better ground and maintenance to grow timothy. Orchard grass comes on earlier and works well with a birdsfoot trefoil mix. Good timothy hay can be higher in protein than alfalfa...so that tells you something about the fertilizer requirements. If you ever try switchgrass /depending on where you live/ its an excellent native grass.

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kyhayman

08-19-2003 19:34:12

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Re: Timothy or Orchard grass in reply to Ridr, 08-18-2003 19:07:00

A lot depends on if you are selling or feeding, your local market, and your time. I have fought mixed fields for years. For me orchard grass is over ripe by the time timothy is ready. Premium timothy is higher $ here than pure alfalfa so I try very hard to keep fields of clear, clean timothy for horse hay to sell. For my own cows I like a red colver/orchard grass mix or orchard grass/alfafa mix. I usually cut 2-4x per year when the clover is ready and then graze.

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Jerry/MT

08-19-2003 10:39:35

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Re: Timothy or Orchard grass in reply to Ridr, 08-18-2003 19:07:00

You say you are high on pH. Do you mean greater than 7? If so lime won't help. Lime will help if the pH is less than 7 because that indicates an acidic soil, 7 being neutral.
As long as you don't graze the pastures, timothy is a real good choice but in our country (Western Montana) orchard grass is a real producer and I believe than in general orchard grass will out produce timothy. If your grazing, timothy won't last without really careful management.

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Ridr

08-19-2003 12:58:29

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Re: Re: Timothy or Orchard grass in reply to Jerry/MT, 08-19-2003 10:39:35

I must be stressed LOL , yes , I am on the acidic side , I know the lime will take some time to correct this , will this hurt orchard grass....thats the grass I am now leaning to

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Jerry/MT

08-19-2003 14:10:58

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Re: Re: Re: Timothy or Orchard grass in reply to Ridr, 08-19-2003 12:58:29

Ridr:
Agricultural Lime will not hurt anything unless you put it on so thick that it prevents the seed from germinating! It will increase the ph and will make any fertilizer you use more effective. (Some elements will only be available to the plants within a narrow range of pH. If your pH is 6.5 to 7.5, you shouldn't have any problems with nutrient uptakes.)Adding lime in the fall in most parts of the country will make the pH better by spring. By all means add it before you seed and harrow in in lightly. As some of the other responders stated, orchard grass is a good producer making excellent hay and grazing. It's very prolific and will yield higher than timonthy It is very palatable to livestock as is timonthy. If you can't decide, than you can seed both. You might consider a legume like New Zealand white clover or birdsfoot trefoil(use inoculated legume seed so you can get all the nitrogen fixing benefits of legumes).
By the way, have you had your soil tested? It would be a good thing to do since your are tilling the ground and are getting ready to replant. You can figure out the nutrient requirements for your pasture and use the right type and quantity of fertilizer. It's not to expensive for a single sample analysis. Just take a shovelfull of dirt from about a dozen places for every twenty acres or less that you have, let it dry, mix it up thoroughly to make a composite sampleand get it analyzed. You can save some money on fertilizer that way. Good Luck.

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Rich G

08-19-2003 10:37:44

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Re: Timothy or Orchard grass in reply to Ridr, 08-18-2003 19:07:00

I have 75 acres is a timothy and orchard grass mix. 3yrs old now. The first year I did not see any timothy only orchard, the second year I had about 70% orchard and 30 % timothy, now its 60/40. Personal opinion is to mix them I planted with a brillion seader. 200/50 (orch/tim). If you are planting for horses don't bother with clover just yet maybe after a few years some white clover but stay away from red. The stems are to big and your grass will start to fry by the time the clover is ready. Gd lck

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Errin OH

08-19-2003 11:25:06

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Re: Re: Timothy or Orchard grass in reply to Rich G, 08-19-2003 10:37:44

I would agree with holding off on the clover (red anyway). Not only does it take longer to dry and the grass will be worthless. It grows faster than grass and will over take the field if cut regularly. A few years ago, when we bought the place, we had some super grass with just a touch of red clover (90/10 G/C). After 2 years, mowed 4-5 times a year, I got a field full of clover(10/90 G/C).

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Steve (Magnolia, TX)

08-19-2003 08:35:10

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Re: Timothy or Orchard grass in reply to Ridr, 08-18-2003 19:07:00

I'm a believer in mixing grass.
I'd go with the timothy and orchard grass (or even fescue, if you're not going for horse hay).
The way I see it, if you mix varieties you won't be wiped out, if you get a bug/virus/fungus/??? that affects one variety... you've always got the second (or even 3rd... throw some red clover in there) as a backup.

Steve

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ShepFL - what does fescue

08-19-2003 19:29:55

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Re: Re: Timothy or Orchard grass in reply to Steve (Magnolia, TX), 08-19-2003 08:35:10

do to horses? Was raised with broomtails, most of our hay was either timothy with occasional alfalfa (small amounts). I am aware of the danger of dry clovers but what is the story on fescue?

I thought it to be a benign grass like timothy?
Thanks in advance.

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Jerry/MT

08-19-2003 20:20:00

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Re: Re: Re: Timothy or Orchard grass in reply to ShepFL - what does fescue, 08-19-2003 19:29:55

ShepFL:
Some older varieties of fescue contain endophytes which can cause some real problems for horses and reduced gains in cattle. The newer endophyte-free varieties do not have these problems. Fescue is an excellent grass for grazing and hay that can be grown in soils where orchard and timothy will be hard to establish (low pH and poorly drained soils).
I used it in a mixture with orchard grass and New Zealand white clover on a place I had in Western Washington and my cattle did very well on it.

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ShepFL - thanks

08-21-2003 20:07:44

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Timothy or Orchard grass in reply to Jerry/MT, 08-19-2003 20:20:00

Now I understand. Most of the grass we had was timothy (Bonners Ferry/Sandpoint) area. I understand now.

We lost a great AQHA stud horse to UREA poisoning. Had some special high protein grain custom mixed up but did not realize until to late the feed store used beef feed as base component. Kept pouring the grain to him but he keep falling off in weight and condition. Had the feed analyzed and discovered the urea. The urea destroyed the putic (sp?) nerve on ol BIG GEM and his rigging would never draw back, he also got real stove up like he had gout and had high ammonia concentrations which lead to brain problems. Real sad story both for the horse and us. Near bout killed my Dad when I hauled him off to the canner sale.

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Steve (Magnolia, TX)

08-20-2003 09:28:31

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Timothy or Orchard grass in reply to Jerry/MT, 08-19-2003 20:20:00

Didn't know the specifics, but I'd always heard (and kinda got a "verification" from my local vet) that fescue hay would kill a horse.
That being older varieties that's been fixed, now, sounds about right. Plus, if it was mixed (with a fairly low ratio of fescue in it) don't know as it would cause a problem...

Steve

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Question on mixing seeds

08-19-2003 10:06:46

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Re: Re: Timothy or Orchard grass in reply to Steve (Magnolia, TX), 08-19-2003 08:35:10

If you mix the seed how would you set the spreader ?? Mine has different slot settings for orchard and timothy

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Steve (Magnolia, TX)

08-19-2003 13:58:53

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Re: Re: Re: Timothy or Orchard grass in reply to Question on mixing seeds, 08-19-2003 10:06:46

2 options, your choice.

Either set it for the largest seed size and mix your seed (you'll have a higher ratio of the smaller seed, that way, though)...
OR...
Seed it twice. Once at the timothy setting and again at the orchard grass setting (probably not the best option for a really big field).

If I had drastic seed size differences (i.e. grass - clover) I'd take the second option. As I recall (I live in Texas, now... too far south for timothy OR orchard grass) timothy and orchard grass seeds ain't that much different in size... I think the timothy's a little bit bigger.

Steve

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Chip S.

08-19-2003 04:19:01

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Re: Timothy or Orchard grass in reply to Ridr, 08-18-2003 19:07:00

Around here,(central MD) Timothy is a one-time spring crop, whereas if you back it up with orchardgrass, you can get two and (maybe this year) three cuttings.

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Ridr

08-19-2003 05:12:12

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Re: Re: Timothy or Orchard grass in reply to Chip S., 08-19-2003 04:19:01

Should I blend the two together ??

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Kelly

08-18-2003 22:44:18

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Re: Timothy or Orchard grass in reply to Ridr, 08-18-2003 19:07:00

I plant Timothy in a mix, I plant Orchard grass alone or with clover. I plant the clover the following year so I can spray weeds the first year. Regrowth is excelent with Orchard grass which allows us to graze it after hay. PK

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Stan TN

08-18-2003 21:48:45

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Re: Timothy or Orchard grass in reply to Ridr, 08-18-2003 19:07:00

I don't know anyone who grows timothy without some other grasses in the mix. We had some clover and something else, I don't remember what in ours.

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