TRACTOR PARTS Allis Chalmers Case & David Brown Farmall & International Ferguson Ford & New Holland John Deere Massey Ferguson Massey Harris Minneapolis Moline Oliver & Cockshutt Kubota / Yanmar

TRACTOR MANUALS

Allis Chalmers	Case	Farmall IH	Ford 8N,9N,2N	Ford
Ferguson	John Deere	Massey Ferguson	Minn. Moline	Oliver

Attention Forum Users: On the 28th of December 2023 at 9:00am Central Time, we will be taking the forums down for maintenance while we prepare the new forums for your use. Please click here for more information.

Implement Alley Discussion Forum

Another knotter question

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register

Author

Tom A

07-23-2003 05:42:40

Report to Moderator

"How do I know?"

I've got a NH 66 baler and the knots frequently don't slide off the billhook. Mostly on one knotter, but it happens on both more times than it should.

I've got the operator's manual and checked most of the stuff it says to: rough billhooks, billhook cam adjustment and the like.

But then it says something like: "...twine tension and hay conditions will also affect this. Adjust twine tension and bale tension as needed."

So, what does that mean? How do I know how to adjust either of these things?? Is my twine too tight? or too loose? I sure don't know, but the darn knotters won't.

Any "hand-on" advice from you old-timers?

thanks,
Tom

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

an update....and thanks!

07-24-2003 05:18:58

Report to Moderator

Re: Another knotter question in reply to Tom A, 07-23-2003 05:42:40

Thanks for all the advice and tips.

For now, I'm concentrating on the lefthand knotter since it hardly knots at all and if I get it fixed I'll probably work on the righthand to make it better.

The knife arm roller had several very worn flat spots, so I took the new arm off of my "spare" $145 knotter (the mounting hole for the bolt is 90 degrees off from the original, so it doesn't fit a NH 66) and put it on my old knotter.

I checked twine tension on both knotters with a spring scale. The left knotter was somewhere around 50 lbs, the right was around 30. I relaxed the tension on the left twine to just over 15.

Had to quit then and go to my "real job" but this evening I plan to test and see if there's any improvement. I"ll let you guys know what happens...thanks for all the help, everyone!

Tom A

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Kelly C

07-24-2003 05:57:58

Report to Moderator

Re: Re: Another knotter question in reply to an update....and thanks!, 07-24-2003 05:18:58

Tom sorry to hear the frame from the new knotter wont fit.Now that you pilfered parts off it you might not be able to take it back to NH. ( got to do what ya got to do)
email me and I will maybe buy the frame from you.
Let me know what you want for it.
Kelly

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Bernie in MA

07-23-2003 17:03:02

Report to Moderator

Re: Another knotter question in reply to Tom A, 07-23-2003 05:42:40

I've never owned a NH baler, but I've run a JD for 30 years and I had this same problem last year. My baler has a flat half-round "blade" that pushes the twine over closer to the billhook as the needles bring it up to the top. The length of the stroke that moves the blade is adjustable by means of an eyebolt. In my case the blade wasn't pushing the twine over far enough. It took me about three days of baling and adjusting different stuff before I finally solved the problem. HTH

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

3020deere

07-23-2003 13:30:43

Report to Moderator

Re: Another knotter question in reply to Tom A, 07-23-2003 05:42:40

Tom, I know this one.. Have done it both times and works everytimg. The knife arm that slides across the bill hook has a bronze bushing that rides on the cam. Those bushings or (roller bearing) as N.H. calls it needs to be replaces. about $8.00 a piece. Some of the factory arms that came with baler dont have screw to hold it in and you have to grind off . PAIN I just save myself time and effert and replace the whole arm with the new ones that have the screw. and I always buy a couple to have on hand. Also once you replace those you need to keep the tension springs on the sides of the bill hooks adjusted properly according to how packed you make your bales.

ALSO GET A Manuel.. I buy parts and service manuels for all equipment.. I have a N.H. 65 that I have rebuilt. and I have a N.H. 273..

Hope this helps

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

mike

07-23-2003 13:16:36

Report to Moderator

Re: Another knotter question in reply to Tom A, 07-23-2003 05:42:40

I have a 275 NH and am having trouble with knots hanging on the right side not on the left. I put a little tension on the string where it leaves the twine chamber and that helped some. I also adjusted the twine fingers where they just rub the needle and bring the string around. This has helped a great deal but i'm still only about 92% and it's just the right side doing this. I,ve also thought about removing one of the hay wedges and trying it. However 92% isn't bad with an old baler I just hate rebaling those busted bales.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Fyrman 904

07-23-2003 10:13:14

Report to Moderator

Re: Another knotter question in reply to Tom A, 07-23-2003 05:42:40

Just a thought, and you may have already checked, what kind of shape are the brass rollers on your billhooks in? Once these get worn they can cause your knots to hang. Let us know how things turn out. Greg

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Roy in UK

07-23-2003 12:06:04

Report to Moderator

Re: Re: Another knotter question in reply to Fyrman 904, 07-23-2003 10:13:14

Are we talking about the rollers on the billhooks or on the knife-arms? flat spots on the knife arm rollers prevent the knife arm travelling enough to strip the knot off. Wow! that does bring back memories, I think I have spent too much time with round balers LOL

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Fyrman 904

07-23-2003 20:03:14

Report to Moderator

Re: Re: Re: Another knotter question in reply to Roy in UK, 07-23-2003 12:06:04

The roller on the billhook.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Kelly C

07-23-2003 13:16:24

Report to Moderator

Re: Re: Re: Another knotter question in reply to Roy in UK, 07-23-2003 12:06:04

Here is a good example of a flat spot on the brass roller.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

I thought

07-23-2003 12:42:43

Report to Moderator

Re: Re: Re: Another knotter question in reply to Roy in UK, 07-23-2003 12:06:04

he meant on the knife arm, and mine do have some significant flat spots.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

several flat spots!

07-23-2003 10:16:55

Report to Moderator

Re: Re: Another knotter question in reply to Fyrman 904, 07-23-2003 10:13:14

Is it possible to replace just the rollers, or do I have to replace the entire arm?

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Chip S.

07-23-2003 11:23:43

Report to Moderator

Re: Re: Re: Another knotter question in reply to several flat spots!, 07-23-2003 10:16:55

The roller can be replaced. On early arms, you need to grind off the top. replace the roller then tack weld the washer back on. The other type has a nut holding the washer on, which makes the job a whole lot simpler.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Fyrman 904

07-23-2003 10:30:49

Report to Moderator

Re: Re: Re: Another knotter question in reply to several flat spots!, 07-23-2003 10:16:55

I'm sure they could be, by someone with the know-how. Maybe a machine shop could replace them or braze them to build them up. I'm not real sure. I was lucky to have gotten another set of billhooks with my S68 when I bought it. Have you tried asking a NH dealer? Hope this helps. Greg

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Jerry D in NC

07-23-2003 10:10:31

Report to Moderator

Re: Another knotter question in reply to Tom A, 07-23-2003 05:42:40

If you have checked that the knife/wipe arm is contacting the back of the billhook and going past the billhook, checked that the billhook tongue isn't too tight, and the billhook doesn't have rough spots that snag then I would back off the twine tension. The twine tension should be about 15 lbs of pull. If you can't pull twine through then it is way too tight. Get a set of fishing scales and use them to check the pull on the twine and the billhook tongue pressure. Bale tension should be backed off until the bales are too loose and then tightened until they are solid. Experience will eventually let you get closer when you start a field.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Tom

07-23-2003 10:24:14

Report to Moderator

Re: Re: Another knotter question in reply to Jerry D in NC, 07-23-2003 10:10:31

The wiper on both sides just brush the billhooks, and the hooks are smooth.

15 lbs of tension is good info--I'll try the pull scale idea until I get more experience with this thing. Thanks!

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Bruce

07-23-2003 09:19:11

Report to Moderator

Re: Another knotter question in reply to Tom A, 07-23-2003 05:42:40

I'm no old=timer expert either, but I solved the problem of hanging knots by backing way off on the bale tension - then added back until the bale was OK and it still worked. That probably wasn't the real problem, but it is still working, so ...

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Roy in UK

07-23-2003 06:23:11

Report to Moderator

Re: Another knotter question in reply to Tom A, 07-23-2003 05:42:40

Hi there Tom, will an old timer of 47 do?
Twine tension....Different makes of baler vary, but where the twine comes out of the twine box, there are probably a couple of wing nuts fitted to some sort of spring loaded clamp, through which the twine passes , you tighten these up to increase the twine tension. One of the most common causes of hanging knots is insufficent twine tension, on the other hand, don't overdo it, just try it, a turn at a time.
Bale tension.... At the end of the bale chamber,where the bale emerges out of the machine there are 2 large handles which you screw down to increase the amount of material in the bale. however you adjust these, it is important that they are adjusted to the same length, i.e. there should be an equal amount of thread showing above the top of the handles. If you get bales coming out like concrete slabs during a cool dewy morning or evening, you might like to back the bale tension off a bit!

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

follow-on?

07-23-2003 06:46:07

Report to Moderator

Re: Re: Another knotter question in reply to Roy in UK, 07-23-2003 06:23:11

Thanks Roy. I'm 46 but have only been playing with balers a short time, so you'd qualify if you were 18 and had experience!

Regarding the twine tension. I have not changed the adjustment since I got the baler. I cannot pull twine through the needles by hand, although it seems to feed fine when the machine cycles through. Should I be able to pull it through myself, or is this perhaps too tight? You say that too loose can cause knots to hang, but how about too tight?

thanks, sorry if I'm slow at understanding this.

tom

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Roy in UK

07-23-2003 09:07:36

Report to Moderator

Re: Re: Re: Another knotter question in reply to follow-on?, 07-23-2003 06:46:07

Hmmm,it sounds plenty tight enough! It's a long time since I played with a square baler, so I have to think back a bit.Sounds like Kelly C ought to join the conversation! I was wondering whether it was the stripper on the knife arm not contacting the back of the billhook, but since you say it happens to both knotters at times, well it is usually just the one that does that. Funny b.....y things knotters. I once heard about a guy that was baling barley straw, with no problems at all, and as soon as he changed to wheat straw, it started to do exactly what your baler was doing, i.e. hanging on to the knots. He even had the mechanic from his NH dealer scratching his head in despair.Then he had an idea. Bolted to the inside of the chamber were two 'hay wedges',ie steel plates that help to restrict the flow of material if you can't get a dense enough bale with the bale tensioners alone. He took those out and that cured the problem. the 'springiness' of the wheat straw, ( as opposed to the rather lifeless barley straw ) was causing the bale to take up tension before the knots had a chance to be released. Anyone else got any ideas?

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

Kelly C

07-23-2003 13:04:10

Report to Moderator

Re: Re: Re: Re: Another knotter question in reply to Roy in UK, 07-23-2003 09:07:36

Sounds like you are on to it. Unfortunately I am having the same problem with my right knotter so may not have the solution as I havent solved mine yet :-(
Every now and then I get a knot hanging on the bill hook.
I have new bill hooks and knife arms on both sides. I adjusted the knife arm in spec. and adjusted the bill hook cam. Twine tesion is correct ( I think).
I also have new (4) hay stops in the bale chamber.
I still have 3 areas of suspect. I noticed quite alot of straw under the left knotter when ever it hung onto a knot, also wonder if the knotter frame may be worn where the knife arm moves in it.
I also suspect the knotter cam gear might be worn.
I will be doing some grass hay and will see if baling a different crop makes a difference.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

P.S.........

07-23-2003 09:12:26

Report to Moderator

Re: Re: Re: Re: Another knotter question in reply to Roy in UK, 07-23-2003 09:07:36

looking at the post below, it could even be the quality of the twine.

[Log in to Reply] [No Email]

[Options] [Printer Friendly] [Posting Help] [Return to Forum] [Log in to Reply]

TRACTOR PARTS	TRACTOR MANUALS

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home | Forums

Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.
All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy