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Planting trees with middle buster?

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nick

02-19-2003 11:49:27




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Help.

I am considering planting a few thousand christmas trees and some fairly level land. I am a small-timer and do not want to purchase a planter. My county extension service knows of no place that rents planters. Here's my question. Does anybody have experience using a middle buster to cut a furrow for planting two and three-year old nursery stock? What size shoe would be best? I have access to a 15-inch middle buster but think it may make to wide a cut. How deep does a particular size shoe cut? Is it like a plow, cut about half the width? Lastly, can a ferguson to-20 pull a 15-inch middle buster?

Thanks.

Nick

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RayP(MI)

02-21-2003 16:17:26




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 Re: planting trees with middle buster? in reply to nick, 02-19-2003 11:49:27  
I've used a 12" (measured at cutting edge) middlebuster to prepare a furrow to plant trees in, then I use a planting bar to hand plant. If you're going to plant in sod, you may want to cut a slice in the sod first. I have used a cultivator blade on the middlebuster shank, then come back through with the middlebuster. I am looking for a rolling coulter that I can mount on the middle buster instead. I also want to put a depth guage wheel on the middlebuster, to keep a constant depth. Using the middlebuster to cut a furrow to plant in, helps keep the sod from overtaking the seedlings. I'm pulling this with a Farmall 200 (2 plow tractor) and it handles the middle buster with ease.

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RayP(MI)

02-21-2003 16:17:10




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 Re: planting trees with middle buster? in reply to nick, 02-19-2003 11:49:27  
I've used a 12" (measured at cutting edge) middlebuster to prepare a furrow to plant trees in, then I use a planting bar to hand plant. If you're going to plant in sod, you may want to cut a slice in the sod first. I have used a cultivator blade on the middlebuster shank, then come back through with the middlebuster. I am looking for a rolling coulter that I can mount on the middle buster instead. I also want to put a depth guage wheel on the middlebuster, to keep a constant depth. Using the middlebuster to cut a furrow to plant in, helps keep the sod from overtaking the seedlings. I'm pulling this with a Farmall 200 (2 plow tractor) and it handles the middle buster with ease.

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nick

02-20-2003 13:06:24




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 Re: planting trees with middle buster? in reply to nick, 02-19-2003 11:49:27  
Thanks everybody for the help and information. Lots of you asked about location and trees, etc. I am in clackamas county, Oregon (about 20 miles from Portland). This area is one of the largest christmas producing regions in the US. I have about 20 acres, most of it usable but as overgrown pasture. Around here people plant in late February through April. I am planting Douglas fir, Noble fir, and some Fraser fir. Some of you from the Carolinas will be familiar with the Frasers, they grow well here. I will be hand planting quite a few trees with a dibble (goes by many names-- planting Tee, planting bar, etc) but was interested in success with middle buster or subsoilers for trenching. Some of the trees are 3+1 years old, some down to 2+0.

By the way, do the Frasers get infested with aphids when grown in their original location (North/South Carolina)?

Thanks again for the input.

Nick

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Jerry D in NC

02-20-2003 17:38:54




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 Re: Re: planting trees with middle buster? in reply to nick, 02-20-2003 13:06:24  
Nick,

You will live with the planting job you do for at least 6 years so let me offer some advice that I have learned the hard way. Yes, we grow some of the finest Christmas trees in the world here in the NC mountains and ship them all over the world. Yes, Aphids are a problem here as well. Be careful of the fungus that some seedlings have been carrying that will render a field useless for growing Frasiers ever again. They get about 3 years growth and turn brown and die. No warning or cure. Field can never be used again. Make sure that the seedlings are from a known good grower that warrants them fungus free.

As for the planting I would recommend hand planting if you only are planting a 1000 seedlings so you can control the depth for each seedling. They are sensitive to being planted too deep. Make sure that you plant so they line up in a row, on 90's and on 45's. Makes for much easier mowing especially if you have level enough ground to be able to mower with a tractor and a small rotary mower. If land is not an issue to you then plant them a little wider so they spread out when they get to be 8 ft and the bottoms are round. You will be spraying them 2 or 3 times a year and trimming at least once so the regular spacing helps alot if you can use automated spraying equipment. Harvesting half of them when they get to be 6 ft and waiting for two years for them to get to the 8 ft range will be easier if the rows line up all three ways as well. Take your time and plant them straight and organized. You will be happier for the next 8 years believe me..... .

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ShepFL - amen to that

02-22-2003 18:57:11




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 Re: Re: Re: planting trees with middle buster? in reply to Jerry D in NC, 02-20-2003 17:38:54  
and Jer !!
Just got my new spring Agri-Supply catalog. How 'bout you? Grinning from both sides!
ShepFL :)



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nick

02-20-2003 13:06:10




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 Re: planting trees with middle buster? in reply to nick, 02-19-2003 11:49:27  
Thanks everybody for the help and information. Lots of you asked about location and trees, etc. I am in clackamas county, Oregon (about 20 miles from Portland). This area is one of the largest christmas producing regions in the US. I have about 20 acres, most of it usable but as overgrown pasture. Around here people plant in late February through April. I am planting Douglas fir, Noble fir, and some Fraser fir. Some of you from the Carolinas will be familiar with the Frasers, they grow well here. I will be hand planting quite a few trees with a dibble (goes by many names-- planting Tee, planting bar, etc) but was interested in success with middle buster or subsoilers for trenching. Some of the trees are 3+1 years old, some down to 2+0.

By the way, do the Frasers get infested with aphids when grown in their original location (North/South Carolina)?

Thanks again for the input.

Nick

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Robert in W. Mi.

02-20-2003 07:35:58




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 Re: planting trees with middle buster? in reply to nick, 02-19-2003 11:49:27  
Over the years i've planted more than 15,000 trees on my place. I'm sorry to say all by hand, and i find it a lot of work. Now that my back isn't what it use to be, i limit my self to about 100 each spring, and i use my tractor with 3 point post hole auger. All the loose soil, and soil left around the hole makes it fairly easy planting, expecially when the trees have long roots!! For a good start you need to get those roots pointing down, not just balled up in a hole. Also keep as much grass and weeds away from the seedling to give them a good start. My friend plows a furrow and plants in it and has good luck. That may be an option for you too? We plant in april, and i have 100 white pine on order, plus, quite a few black walnut seedlings to transplant. It will be good to see spring!! Robert

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TwinCreek

02-20-2003 04:52:46




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 Re: planting trees with middle buster? in reply to nick, 02-19-2003 11:49:27  
I plant 1000 trees per year using a middle buster. I plant 3-2 douglas fir and canaan firs so the trees I plant are fairly large. They are too large to plant with an ost bar. I rip a furrow with the middle buster. Then we hand plant the trees. We push the dirt back into the furrow using our feet. When we are all done with a row I drive the tractor along the edge of the furrow to further compact the soil. Using this method it take 4 of us about a day to plant 1000 trees. Hope this helps.

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nick

02-20-2003 12:57:14




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 Re: Re: planting trees with middle buster? in reply to TwinCreek, 02-20-2003 04:52:46  
Thanks for the input. I am planting about 1000 3+1 Fraser firs, some 2+1 douglas firs and some 2+0 noble firs. How wide is your furrow? I am concerned about getting it deep enough yet not throwing the dirt so far that it takes too much to get it back into the ditch. I plan on using a 15-inch middle buster. I like the idea of compacting by driving neer the rows.

Tahnks.

Nick



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TwinCreek

02-20-2003 13:07:47




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 Re: Re: Re: planting trees with middle buster? in reply to nick, 02-20-2003 12:57:14  
Nick: I use the chisel tooth subsoiler attachment which is about 2" wide. If you look in the Northern Tool and Equipment catalog at their subsoiler you will see what I use. I have not used the wide plow attachment for the subsoiler. The furrow that I make is only about 4 to 5 inches wide. This is wide enough to get the trees in. If the transplants have alot of roots you may have to use a shovel to make sure the hole is wide enough. I have a very good success rate using this method. By the way, the tractor I use is a John Deere 4100 compact. It is a little light for the subsoiler work so I usually make two passes over each furrow. Doing the subsoiling does not take much time therefore I live with this minor inefficiency. Let me know if I can be of any more help.

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nick

02-20-2003 12:56:32




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 Re: Re: planting trees with middle buster? in reply to TwinCreek, 02-20-2003 04:52:46  
Thanks for the input. I am planting about 1000 3+1 Fraser firs, some 2+1 douglas firs and some 2+0 noble firs. How wide is your furrow? I am concerned about getting it deep enough yet not throwing the dirt so far that it takes too much to get it back into the ditch. I plan on using a 15-inch middle buster. I like the idea of compacting by driving neer the rows.

Tahnks.

Nick



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ShepFL

02-19-2003 18:36:06




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 Re: planting trees with middle buster? in reply to nick, 02-19-2003 11:49:27  
Hey Nick -
Not sure what area of the country you're in but here in the South we plant our seedling pines in Dec. & Jan. when the trees are dormant. Some folks are still planting now but it AWFULLY late for planting pines here in my area. Cost is about $100/1000 tree purchases and $50/wk for planter rental.

Me and my boys have planted about 10k pines on my place over the yrs. Some are just getting to the size that can be used for pulpwood. Others will be saved for saw lumber. Pine trees are the easiest row crop I grow - plant and go! Have to wait awhile on the ROI though. In the meantime I still enjoy greenbelt exemption.

We have planted pines and cypress (never again on cypress). We planted by hand with what we refer to as a dibble. It is just as RB/CT described. You can probably also make one if you have access to a welder. Can be done alone if no assistant available. Works well but takes some time if planting a lot of trees. Borrowed it from the State Forest work center.

We have since switched to tractor planting as described by JD4020. I have found this is the most efficient means to plant but does require an assistant. You can plant 100's of trees per day with this unit. Check with your local Federal and State Forestry work center as you should be able to rent one for a nominal price.

I do wonder though, are you planting Christmas trees for future sales or wind break. I looked into doing the Christmas tree thing but found it to intensive (trimming, pruning, variety of trees to meet market demand) to be worth my part time effort. I chose pines as they are a good commodity here in the South and requires very little maintenance. Just a thought.

Here is a link to some of my pine tree efforts.
Link

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Pat

02-19-2003 20:18:42




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 Re: Re: planting trees with middle buster? in reply to ShepFL, 02-19-2003 18:36:06  
ShepFL,
I found your post very interesting, and would like to learn more.

How many acres do you have to have to make it profitable, and what kind of trees do you plant.

There are about 5-6 acres of scotch pines on the farm (40 acres in southern WV)that my grandfather planted on a hill in the 50's for christmas trees, and I have been wondering if I should have them clearcut and plant new ones. Do you think they are worth anything to a lumber co., they are pretty knotty, and many deciduous trees now growing in them.

What do you do with old stumps when planting new trees?

Thanks for any info, Pat

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Pat

02-19-2003 20:17:51




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 Re: Re: planting trees with middle buster? in reply to ShepFL, 02-19-2003 18:36:06  
ShepFL,
I found your post very interesting, and would like to learn more.

How many acres do you have to have to make it profitable, and what kind of trees do you plant.

There are about 5-6 acres of scotch pines on the farm (40 acres in southern WV)that my grandfather planted on a hill in the 50's for christmas trees, and I have been wondering if I should have them clearcut and plant new ones. Do you think they are worth anything to a lumber co., they are pretty knotty, and many deciduous trees now growing in them.

What do you do with old stumps when planting new trees?

Thanks for any info, Pat

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John A.

02-19-2003 17:10:57




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 Re: planting trees with middle buster? in reply to nick, 02-19-2003 11:49:27  
Nick, A friend if mine Has a tree farm here in central Texas, Soil type is a heavy HoustonBlack
clay. He farms up the place where he is to plant
his new trees, then stakes of rows with string.
Depending on how big the rootball is on his trees
on wheather he uses an auger, 3 hands @ $10.00/hr,
or His tree spade / on his bobcat loader. You said 3 yr. old stock, I would guess the rootball would be about the size of a basketball.
so an auger (3pt post hole digger with a 12auger)
could work quite nicely!
Next year Round-up the area to keep the weeds in check.
Good luck,
John A.

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RB/CT

02-19-2003 17:01:57




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 Re: planting trees with middle buster? in reply to nick, 02-19-2003 11:49:27  
Ive planted a lot of trees using a OST Planting bar. Its a pipe with a tee handle, and at the bottom is a wedge and shoe bar, you drive it into the ground, push it back and forth, plant the seedling, and cover. They cost about $40, I got mine from Musseur Forests in PA. They claim, in an 8 hr. day you could plant 1,000 seedlings by hand. I used mine to plant 125 Pin Oaks, Sugar Maples, and Red Maples in a couple of hours. Just a thought I passed on. Good Luck.

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RB/CT

02-19-2003 17:01:05




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 Re: planting trees with middle buster? in reply to nick, 02-19-2003 11:49:27  
Ive planted a lot of trees using a OST Planting bar. Its a pipe with a tee handle, and at the bottom is a wedge and shoe bar, you drive it into the ground, push it back and forth, plant the seedling, and cover. They cost about $40, I got mine from Musseur Forests in PA. They claim, in an 8 hr. day you could plant 1,000 seedlings by hand. I used mine to plant 125 Pin Oaks, Sugar Maples, and Red Maples in a couple of hours. Just a thought I passed on. Good Luck.

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Gaylan

02-19-2003 15:07:50




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 Re: planting trees with middle buster? in reply to nick, 02-19-2003 11:49:27  
I use a subsoiler for planting pines, I prep soil a few months in advance by discing it first.



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nick

02-19-2003 16:39:48




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 Re: Re: planting trees with middle buster? in reply to Gaylan, 02-19-2003 15:07:50  
Thanks for the reply. I plowed and disked in preparation. I am concerned that a middle buster will create too wide of a furrow. How does your subsoiler work for you? I would only be cutting 6-8 inches deep (I think... I have not seen the root mass on some of these trees). Do you get a wide enough slice?

Thanks for your help.

Nick



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Gaylan

02-20-2003 14:55:22




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 Re: Re: Re: planting trees with middle buster? in reply to nick, 02-19-2003 16:39:48  
Yes, it works great, I cut a few trenches then set trees out in them. I then cut another trench approx 4 inches from first, this causes the first trench to close up, sealing the pine tree roots from air. I like to plan on damp soil. Have used a 130 international for the planting process. Good luck



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Gaylan

02-20-2003 14:54:55




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 Re: Re: Re: planting trees with middle buster? in reply to nick, 02-19-2003 16:39:48  
Yes, it works great, I cut a few trenches then set trees out in them. I then cut another trench approx 4 inches from first, this causes the first trench to close up, sealing the pine tree roots from air. I like to plan on damp soil. Have used a 130 international for the planting process. Good luck



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JD 4020 3020

02-19-2003 12:45:47




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 Re: planting trees with middle buster? in reply to nick, 02-19-2003 11:49:27  
I used a neighbors one row home made tree planter and it worked great. it had a large disk in front to cut the sod, and a small 2 sided plow to open the hole about 3 to 4 inches wide and up to 10 inches deep. Then behind the plow wasthe seat, and under the seat were 2 wheels which were set to close the hold back up. I pulled it with my JD 3020, and was careful not to hook a rock and break it, while my neighbor pulled it with his JD 420. Not sure how much this will help you, but maybe you can gain a little insight.

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nick

02-19-2003 16:44:27




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 Re: Re: planting trees with middle buster? in reply to JD 4020 3020, 02-19-2003 12:45:47  
Thanks for the input. I would love to fabricate a planter, if only I had the time to do it all. I know I will spend more time planting by hand, but it seems easier to bite the bullet when the trees arrive than to get to work during the off-season. Anyway, my wife can't complain when she sees the trees and knows they have to go in the ground when I bring them home, but she sure can complain when I go out to build something during the summer.

Thanks again.

Nick

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