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Will disc harrows prep fescue sod field for no till??

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dan

12-24-2002 15:30:47




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I want to plant 5 acres of alfalfa using no till drill. i mowed down the fescue and weeds and hit it with round up. now what do you guys think i need to use to tear it up a bit and even it out for planting in the spring?? will a disk harrows work? or will i have to plow and disk? or cultivator? I am lazy so what will require least work to get the job done? Oh the soil is heavy clay fescue weed sod. I only have a 45 hp diesel 4wd tractor to use. so please dont suggest something my tractor wont pull
thank you

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RickB.

12-25-2002 04:41:26




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 Re: will disc harrows prep fescue sod field for no till?? in reply to dan, 12-24-2002 15:30:47  
If you sprayed Roundup on short stubble with little or no active growth, no-till will be a failure and the Roundup was a waste of money. Should have been sprayed before mowing. Some no-till drills have difficulty maintaining proper depth in tilled soil. Either use full conventional tillage or no-till; nothing in between. Might help to tell us what brand of drill is available.



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david

12-24-2002 20:37:34




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 Re: will disc harrows prep fescue sod field for no till?? in reply to dan, 12-24-2002 15:30:47  
I would respectfully disagree with the other post regarding using tillage. No til can be sucessful. Failures are generally cause by one of three things:
1. Inadequate control of existing vegetation, 2. Varieties not resistant to seedling diseases (spring seeded must be resistant to aphanomyces, fall to sclerotinia) or you can see strong stand declines; 3. Seed placed too deep. Too many people want to run the drill with out setting the coulters. Seed only needs to be 1/4-1/2" deep. Coulters should cut no more than 1/2-3/4". Worst thing you could do is disc up a field and then drill, too easy to go too deep. There are other failures (pH too low, poor seed quality which can affect wither conventional or no til). My personal choice is to burn down a field with Roundup, drill in wheat or triticale, cut for hay or baleage, clean up with another shot of Roundup or Gramoxone, drill soybeans, bale for baleage, drill wheat, burn down and drill spring seed alfalfa.

David A. Bird
Consulting Agronomist ARCPACS #4527

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dan

12-25-2002 08:23:08




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 Re: Re: will disc harrows prep fescue sod field for no till?? in reply to david, 12-24-2002 20:37:34  
Ok guys
here is more info, the soil was tested and limed etc as needed, i let the fescue re-grow prior to burn down with rd up. i plan to re-burn with rd up in the spring prior to planting as i know fescue is tough to wipe out. thus it seems some of you like no till some dont. BUT THE QUESTION IS SHOULD I DISK FIRST OR JUST DRILL IN THE ALFALFA SEED EARLY THIS SPRING??
thank you
dan



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kjm

12-25-2002 13:39:22




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 Re: Re: Re: will disc harrows prep fescue sod field for no till?? in reply to dan, 12-25-2002 08:23:08  
If you don`t no-till you will have to plow then disc it. A disc won`t turn sod under.



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RickB.

12-25-2002 13:36:33




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 Re: Re: Re: will disc harrows prep fescue sod field for no till?? in reply to dan, 12-25-2002 08:23:08  
If the drill you will use will put the seed in the ground at the proper depth and cover it, then don't disc. Discing will increase weed pressure by burying seeds that are now on top, and will do nothingto decrease weed pressure from weed seeds now in the germination zone.



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JIMVA

12-24-2002 21:30:32




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 Re: Re: will disc harrows prep fescue sod field for no till?? in reply to david, 12-24-2002 20:37:34  
Just to have u know ive been farming since i was 14. iam now 48, i only use the best seed and i know what spring and fall varieties should be resistant to, my fields get fertilized according to soil tests every year, and the seed was planted to recomended depth. like i said it was my opinion of no-till.



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scooterhead

12-25-2002 05:47:51




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 Re: Re: Re: will disc harrows prep fescue sod field for no till?? in reply to JIMVA, 12-24-2002 21:30:32  
JIMVA , I agree with you , Been farming the same ground for 30 yrs. and tried it all. The best stand comes from the best seed bed.



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davig

12-25-2002 05:18:22




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 Re: Re: Re: will disc harrows prep fescue sod field for no till?? in reply to JIMVA, 12-24-2002 21:30:32  
Then you shouldn't have had a notill failure. ARR resistence has only been identified since 1995 or so. It was related to a lot of the early notill failures. Best example I saw was in Ohio and WV(1992) on reclaimed mine land. Farmers would plant alfalfa on reclaimed mine land and get good stands, plant regular fields and sometimes it worked, sometimes not.

I, too, had left notill. Started trying it on my own farm in 1982 (my first year farming). Sometimes it worked, sometimes not. Finally abandoned it for conventional. Went the the KFGC Alafalfa Conference in '96 and saw a research study on notill failures and tried the changes (big one was it takes a 1/2 day to adjust a Tye drill that hasn't had the coulters changed in 20 years). Been seeding 10-20 acres per year since then and only had 2 failures. Both were my fault, I didn't use a nurse crop and the sod (fescue) regrew before the alfalfa got established (sclerotina then moved in, there is no resistence to it in plants less than 1 year old). Will be rotating the stands seeded in 1996 out this year after first cutting.

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JIMVA

12-25-2002 09:16:15




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: will disc harrows prep fescue sod field for no till?? in reply to davig, 12-25-2002 05:18:22  
Well i had the failure, i wasnt the only one the county too, I'll use conventional practices for the rest of my days, never had a failure with that.

If u would have plowed the ground u wouldnt have worry about the previous crop regrowing or coming back and pushing the other crop out.

Me personally having to spray with roundup, mow plant one or two nurse crops,then plant the crop i want, is more work and expensive then just goin ahead and plow, disk, fertilze and plant. Every time u do that, its fuel, labor, seed cost, fertilizer cost, and the rent of the drill.

Make a good seed bed to start off with,plant fertilize and not have to do it again for the next 5 or 6 years.

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Charlie G

12-24-2002 18:50:04




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 Re: will disc harrows prep fescue sod field for no till?? in reply to dan, 12-24-2002 15:30:47  
If you are going to no-till, there is no more you need to do. Be sure to use a good drill as sugggested. Adequate down pressure is a must to get good seed-soil contact. I also think soil type has an effect as stated. Perhaps check with the locals to see if no-till works around there. Ive had the same problems with a good stand using no-till here in e Iowa.



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JIMVA

12-24-2002 16:13:17




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 Re: will disc harrows prep fescue sod field for no till?? in reply to dan, 12-24-2002 15:30:47  
me personally i would plow and disk and then plant, my past experiences with alfalfa and no till drills was pretty sh****, I no till planted 35 acres of alfalfa came up great the first year, 2nd year it was okay 3rd year hardly any alfalfa. So the 4th year i plowed, disked and then planted with a regular drill, that was 5 years ago, and the alfalfa is still just as good as the first year it came up. I put the same amout of fert. as i did the first time with no till and the same every year. In my opinion your just wasting time with the no-till, the ground has to be worked, its too hard on the seed, now i know that there will be others who whole-hartly disagree with this, but this was my experience with no-till. But now no till is good if your planting every year, but i want to plant one time and not have to worry about it for the next serveral years.

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