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Sickle Bar Rivets

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Indiana Jones

09-05-2001 17:59:42




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Thought I'd post this message for those out there who know even less than me. Recently I decided to replace all the knives in an old (1946) sickle bar mower. I got the knives and a few extra rivets. Never having done this before I experimented on a couple rivets with a 3 pound hammer. Mostly they just bent over. I could see that wasn't going to work. Later I happened to be in a Amish type hardware store and asked about riveting sickle knives. The gentleman explained that I should gently use a ball pein hammer with the rivets backed up on a dead weight surface. So my process went like this - 12" piece of railroad rail sitting on a big stump for backing, gently tap the outer edges of the rivet with the ball pein hammer until it forms a round head. It takes maybe 30-40 taps to do this. But it works and looks great.

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Nuts n Bolts

09-06-2001 05:17:00




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 Re: Sickle Bar Rivets in reply to Indiana Jones, 09-05-2001 17:59:42  
If you are switching to nut n bolts you usually have to put on "high clearance" hold down clips to replace the original ones soince the nut/bolt is taller than a rivet head. These are available for almost all older units. Try Shoup Mfg. for a cheap source.



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magpie

09-06-2001 09:10:48




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 Re: Re: Sickle Bar Rivets in reply to Nuts n Bolts, 09-06-2001 05:17:00  
Well in my case the bolts I got are tapered and set very low with lots of room under the knife holders. The problem is with the nuts, which if I dont grind down they will scrape on the shank of the guard. I also had problems with them coming l
oose, so I overtightened a few and broke them off. I suppose Im doing something wrong here.



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paul

09-06-2001 10:15:16




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 Re: Re: Re: Sickle Bar Rivets in reply to magpie, 09-06-2001 09:10:48  
In all cases I've seen, the bolts go in from the bottom, with the nuts on top of the sickle bar. Are you putting them in from the top down? Don't think that's how it's supposed to work.

--->Paul



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Tim(nj)

09-06-2001 11:15:36




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Sickle Bar Rivets in reply to paul, 09-06-2001 10:15:16  
Also make sure they didn't sell you countersunk bolts to use. My Hart-Carter floating bar on the Gleaner uses countersunk bolts, and they won't work in anything else.



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Bob Kerr

09-05-2001 22:33:08




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 Re: Sickle Bar Rivets in reply to Indiana Jones, 09-05-2001 17:59:42  
I remember Grandpa talking about changing segments in a sycle bar. I was too young to remember him doing it but he said he would clamp the bar in the vise and smack the back edge of the segment with a hammer. It would shear off the rivits and the ones that didn't just fall out he would tap lightly with a punch to clean the hole.He would have the whole bar ready to rivit in just a few minutes. Anybody else use that technique? I have been looking for a sycle bar to put on my F-12 and will end up working on it I am certain. Grandpa isn't around to ask anymore.

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yup

09-07-2001 13:20:04




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 Re: Re: Sickle Bar Rivets in reply to Bob Kerr, 09-05-2001 22:33:08  
Have used the method you described. Although it's called replacing SECTIONS on a SICKLE.



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Bob Kerr

09-10-2001 07:37:51




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 Re: Re: Re: Sickle Bar Rivets in reply to yup, 09-07-2001 13:20:04  
I knew better than that! Must have had a tired brain malfunction . It was late when I wrote "segments" and I only had 3 hours sleep the night before.



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TomH

09-06-2001 16:51:34




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 Re: Re: Sickle Bar Rivets in reply to Bob Kerr, 09-05-2001 22:33:08  
That's the best way to remove old rivets. Using a punch or drill enlarges the hole in the knife. Close the vise so you can just slide the section into it point down, but don't tighten the jaws on it. Then give the back of the section a good whack with a big hammer (I use about a 1 pound sledge, even a big ball peen isn't enough). You think you're going to damage the knife by hitting it that hard but I've never hurt it.

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Keewaydin

09-06-2001 07:52:58




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 Re: Re: Sickle Bar Rivets in reply to Bob Kerr, 09-05-2001 22:33:08  
We've used this method of taking the old sections out for many years ever since an old timer showed it to me long ago. Takes a rugged vise and a fairly heavy hammer. Don't close the vice to tight. Two people, one holding the knife bar and sliding it along and the other with one hand on the vise turning bar and the other on the hammer, can do it more than twice as fast as one.



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Indiana Jones

09-06-2001 04:46:46




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 Re: Re: Sickle Bar Rivets in reply to Bob Kerr, 09-05-2001 22:33:08  
Should have mentioned I took the easy way out and used a 4" metal cutting blade in my hand grinder. I cut the heads off on the segment side so as not to damage the bar.



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gy3020

09-05-2001 21:59:13




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 Re: Sickle Bar Rivets in reply to Indiana Jones, 09-05-2001 17:59:42  
Just wanted to say a big A-men on the comments about the bolts. I have a 469 new holland haybine and have had up to 3 haybines at one time and the bolts are the only way too go. Costs is more but convience and ease of replacement out weighs the cost at least in my eye. I will never use another rivet unless I just have no other choice. Hope you have good luck with it!
Gary



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Indiana Jones

09-06-2001 04:54:45




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 Re: Re: Sickle Bar Rivets in reply to gy3020, 09-05-2001 21:59:13  
This one was a 1946 Co-op Blackhawk - an antique. It will mostly just be a show piece. The rivets look better in this case. If I had a sickle mower I used for real work I'd definitely go with the bolts and nuts. You could probably change just one segment out in the field without pulling the entire bar.



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paul

09-06-2001 10:12:32




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 Re: Re: Re: Sickle Bar Rivets in reply to Indiana Jones, 09-06-2001 04:54:45  
Pull the bar??? To replace a bunch as you did of course, but I replace rivets on the combine or mower or moco in place all the time. Take a gaurd off, drill out the old rivet, and I have an old axle shaft that I can place under the bar to use as the lower weight to hold the rivet in place.

You sure described replacing the rivets very well, that was a nice message.

--->Paul



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gy3020

09-06-2001 08:39:49




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 Re: Re: Re: Sickle Bar Rivets in reply to Indiana Jones, 09-06-2001 04:54:45  
That would be cool in that case. How long is the sickle 7' or 9'? Also what type of mount does it have to go on the tractor?



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TomH

09-05-2001 18:13:25




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 Re: Sickle Bar Rivets in reply to Indiana Jones, 09-05-2001 17:59:42  
Two other alternatives. You can get a combination punch/press tool that punches out the old rivet and forms the new one, works really well with no hammering (about $50). But I prefer using bolts instead of rivets, much faster. For doing an entire knife I chuck a socket in an electric (reversible) drill and go right down the row in a few minutes.



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wilson

09-05-2001 20:48:18




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 Re: Re: Sickle Bar Rivets in reply to TomH, 09-05-2001 18:13:25  
I tried the bolts Tom, I think I will stick with the rivits. I have a JD#5 mower and their dosent seem to be enough clearance for the bolts. I got the bolts from the JD dealer. Mabey the mower is too old I dont know.



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paul

09-06-2001 10:03:42




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 Re: Re: Re: Sickle Bar Rivets in reply to wilson, 09-05-2001 20:48:18  
There are 'universal' hold downs available at farm supply stores, or I'm sure your dealer has them also if that is where the clearance problem is.

I have a 1209 mower conditioner, & lots of hills with rocks. I seem to chip a sickle every 5-10 acres. Oh how I hate those rivets under the reel. Everything new going on is bolts...

--->Paul



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Brian G. NY

09-05-2001 19:25:24




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 Re: Re: Sickle Bar Rivets in reply to TomH, 09-05-2001 18:13:25  
Tom, I've never tried the bolts; do the farm dealers sell bolts made specifically for this purpose?



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Alvin NE WI

09-05-2001 19:44:59




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 Re: Re: Re: Sickle Bar Rivets in reply to Brian G. NY, 09-05-2001 19:25:24  
You bet they do, or get then at a farm supply store, don't know what you got in your area, ace or Fleet farm here.



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paul

09-06-2001 10:07:00




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Sickle Bar Rivets in reply to Alvin NE WI, 09-05-2001 19:44:59  
There are several different types to fit most anything, different lengths, and round pan head or resessed head. It's no big deal on my sickle mower or combine to use rivets, but on the mower conditioner I seem to eat sickle sections and with the reel in the way I can't swing a hammer to get the old out or the new in...

--->Paul



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