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Implement Alley Discussion Forum

Disc Rule of Thumb?

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Steve in IL

05-05-2008 13:44:24




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Is there a rule of thumb for how large of a disc a certain HP tractor can pull? Like how about 2 ft/10hp? I know that ground conditions and disc type can cuase this to vary, but I'm just looking for some directional guidance... Thanks, Steve




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thurlow

05-06-2008 12:54:14




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 Re: Disc Rule of Thumb? in reply to Steve in IL, 05-05-2008 13:44:24  
Y'all are really confusing me; not to disparage the original question, but it's almost like asking, "How long is a rope?" Because of variations in soil conditions, weight/efficiency of disc, weight of tractor, what you're trying to accomplish, etc., the question is essentially un-answerable. I often 'see' where folks are pulling an 18--20 ft disc with an 806 or 4020 or other 90 (pto) hp tractor..... NOT AROUND 'HERE'. Have had AW, BWF, 235 John Deeres, 2300 and 2500 A-Cs and some others I've forgotten; have pulled 470 IHs; these are all tandem disc (harrows); in my soil conditions and the way I wanted them to work, it took about 6 or 7 (drawbar) hp per foot of cut.

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Hugh Mackay

05-06-2008 17:47:22




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 Re: Disc Rule of Thumb? in reply to thurlow, 05-06-2008 12:54:14  
thurlow: Knowing that there are disks with 7.5" spacing and disks with 9" spacing, maybe couple others, can one really count on hp per foot. In my neck of the woods, disks are always measured by the blade, then you have to factor in size of blade, weight of disk per blade, concave of blade.

On the spacing issue, I do question whether a blade moving 7.5" of soil requires the same hp as a blade moving 9" of soil, just maybe one has to factor in spacing.

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thurlow

05-06-2008 19:26:05




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 Re: Disc Rule of Thumb? in reply to Hugh Mackay, 05-06-2008 17:47:22  
I think the fellows who've ever pulled a "DISC", are pretty much in agreement; as to whether or not various spacings affect how hard the disc will pull, I can't say; not sure I've ever had anything except 9 inch, except for a PKH John Deere off-set. Don't know what the spacing was on it, but it was more than 9 inch.



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Hugh Mackay

05-07-2008 02:26:24




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 Re: Disc Rule of Thumb? in reply to thurlow, 05-06-2008 19:26:05  
thurlow: I've pulled a few disks myself, having bought 3 new disks and 3 used disks lifetime. My first one a Cockshutt that came with the farm I bought from my dad 28-16" blades 9" spacing and it could make Farmall 300 sweat. My first new disk was a 44 blade, 18" blades on 7.5" spacing and it was a load for 60hp. My 2nd new disk was a Bush Hog 246 offset with 24-26" blades on 12" spacing, 100+hp. My 3rd new disk was a Bush Hog 88-20" blades on 9" spacing, 125hp. My 2nd used disk was 16-16" blades on 7.5" spacing, took 20hp. My 3rd used disk was 24-18" blades 9" spacing, and it needs 30+hp.

With the exception of the Bush Hog offset, and that is another class of disk, as was your John Deere PKH. Those 5 tandem disks I bought in my lifetime all required roughly 1.25 hp per blade. If you calculate the hp by the foot, it comes out quite different. I'll let you do the figures for yourself. My point is 7.5" spacing pulls much harder by the foot than 9" spacing. You openly admit, you've never had anything but 9" spacing.

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NawlensGator

05-06-2008 12:09:40




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 Re: Disc Rule of Thumb? in reply to Steve in IL, 05-05-2008 13:44:24  

Just got a new set of discs with 4 axels and 16 blades 18" diam (serrated). Weighs about 600 lbs. My 140 pulls them with no problem. Figure 23 HP / 16 blades = 1.4 HP / blade in 2nd gear.



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Hugh Mackay

05-06-2008 02:14:30




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 Re: Disc Rule of Thumb? in reply to Steve in IL, 05-05-2008 13:44:24  
Steve: It really boils down to hp per blade, then you have a wide variety of blades. On the average farm disk with 16" to 18" blades you can figure on 1.25 hp per blade. If you hear tell of someone pulling more, very likely he's rumming worn out blades, and worn out blades don't cut well.

Remember also a disk the had 18" blades when new, and is now worn down to 16". That will not be as effective as a new 16" blade. I'm not saying it's worn out. If your buying just be aware of what a new blade looks like. The effective concave is near the outer rim of blade.

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TomTex

05-06-2008 05:32:54




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 Re: Disc Rule of Thumb? in reply to Hugh Mackay, 05-06-2008 02:14:30  
Hugh, your HP per blade is only good IF you say "tandem disk" in the description. Tom



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Hugh Mackay

05-06-2008 14:43:03




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 Re: Disc Rule of Thumb? in reply to TomTex, 05-06-2008 05:32:54  
Tom: I could point out that if it's not a tandem disk, it ain't much good for anything.



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TomTex

05-06-2008 20:51:53




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 Re: Disc Rule of Thumb? in reply to Hugh Mackay, 05-06-2008 14:43:03  
Hugh, I cant for the life of me figure out what you are talking about when you say "Tom: I could point out that if it's not a tandem disk, it ain't much good for anything".
Most real farmers around here have what we call an "offset disk" and you can be they are reallly worth something. Many use them to turn under last years oat crop and get ready to drill in this years crop. An offset will cut the ground MUCH BETTER than a tandem disk. I have an old JD offset that cuts 7 1/2 feet; has 10 disks on the front gang, and 10 on the rear gang, plus a real small one to not leave too much ridge at the edge of the cut. The blades/disks are 22 inch. And you need 10 HP per foot to pull it. Sometimes I use a tandem disk to re-stir and smooth after putting out fertlize, but it wont cut anywhere like the offset. Tom

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Hugh Mackay

05-07-2008 01:48:31




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 Re: Disc Rule of Thumb? in reply to TomTex, 05-06-2008 20:51:53  
Tom: What is an offset but a form of tandem disk, ONE GANG BEHIND THE OTHER. I thought you were refering a single inthrow or out throw disk. Why anyone would drag one of those around is beyond me.

Now getting back to what I said, that being 16" to 18" blades required 1.25 hp per blade. I guess the exception would be primary tillage disks, but not many of them are equipped with 16" or 18" blades.

Folks get on here chirping up about how much harder and offset pulls, what they seem to forget, most offsets have 24" to 28" blades. I know, I had a 246 Bush Hog 24 x 26" blades and it pulled almost as hard as my regular tamdem Bush Hog with 88 x 20" blades. I tried a 88 blade offset with 20" blades, very little difference between it and the regular tandem. Where the difference comes is the difference between primary and secondary tillage disks, and I've seen both in regular tandem or offset version.

I've also yet to see a heavy frame disk equipped with 16" or 18" blades

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Allan In NE

05-05-2008 17:08:07




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 Re: Disc Rule of Thumb? in reply to Steve in IL, 05-05-2008 13:44:24  
Just went thru this; let ya know in a few days.

Dealer told me to figure on 6 hp per foot of cut and that my tractor will never pull it.

We'll see when this latest snow clears out 'cause I've got weeds comin' like crazy. :>(

Allan

third party image



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Willy P

05-05-2008 18:54:01




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 Re: Disc Rule of Thumb? in reply to Allan In NE, 05-05-2008 17:08:07  
Allen, you know that farmall will pull it,I pull one just like it with a 1066 with the axles buried to the ground and it roars like a lion. I put them 20 inch cone disc blades on the front and they pull harder with single tires but they do have water in them.Have fun plowing.



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Allan In NE

05-06-2008 05:28:38




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 Re: Disc Rule of Thumb? in reply to Willy P, 05-05-2008 18:54:01  
Hi Ya Willie,

Yeah, I "think" it's gonna work, emphisis on the "think" part. I turned the screw up on 'er a little last year and it seems to pull strong.

HOwever, always a bit "nervous" whenever I pull a stunt like this tho.

If it doesn't handle it, guess I'll have to drag that toy clear back to town again. :>(

Allan



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rednekelmo

05-07-2008 00:33:41




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 Re: Disc Rule of Thumb? in reply to Allan In NE, 05-06-2008 05:28:38  
hey allan if that 1066 cant pull that disc then you either have the hardest pulling ground in the world or the weakest 1066.our negibor pulled the same disk with a 1206 for years. 20 years ago I spent a spring pulling a 22' deere disc with a 3 bar harrow useing a 1066 hi 1st all day long never any power problems just hated that green disc after being around redones all my young life.



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Allan In NE

05-07-2008 04:49:24




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 Re: Disc Rule of Thumb? in reply to rednekelmo, 05-07-2008 00:33:41  
For sure.

Those JD discs sure cut nice, but they just can't compare to the way the IHs level the ground.

Allan



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rednekelmo

05-07-2008 09:12:19




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 Re: Disc Rule of Thumb? in reply to Allan In NE, 05-07-2008 04:49:24  
I agree dads 480 would level as nice or nicer than that JD disc with the 3 bar harrow



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TomTex

05-05-2008 14:08:40




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 Re: Disc Rule of Thumb? in reply to Steve in IL, 05-05-2008 13:44:24  
Depends on whether you are taling about tandem disk, offset disk, or disk breaking plow.

For what around here we call an "offset" disk (2 gangs/or axles, front throws right rear throws left), blades/disks are about 22 or 24 inches, you need 10 PTO HP per foot of cut.

What we call "tandem disks" (4 gangs in shape of X) , with blades/disks of about 16, 18 or 20 inches, require a lot less, maybe about 5 HP per foot.

For a "disk plow" which has about 30 inch disks each mounted on its own strut (no common axle thru center of disks) needs about 14 HP per bottom/disk/blade, each one of which cuts about 11 inches.
Tom

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Steve in IL

05-05-2008 14:21:35




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 Re: Disc Rule of Thumb? in reply to TomTex, 05-05-2008 14:08:40  
Thanks Tom. I did find document that has disc and other implement estimates...

Link



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RodInNS

05-05-2008 13:51:26




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 Re: Disc Rule of Thumb? in reply to Steve in IL, 05-05-2008 13:44:24  
Not really... It would depend entirely on the disc. Some work well with probably 3-4 hp per foot and some want 10+ hp per foot. Depends on the weight of the disc, the blade size, the working depth and the soil type.

Rod



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dwrk

05-05-2008 18:53:06




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 Re: Disc Rule of Thumb? in reply to RodInNS, 05-05-2008 13:51:26  
REALLY varies. We're using a 22' Ezee-On with a 115 hp JD 7510 most of the time. Guys on heavier ground run the same disk on 180 hp tractors and have to push them hard. Offset disks here we can run about 8 hp per foot.



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