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want to do my own hay..Conditioner question

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Neal in PA

05-04-2008 07:49:54




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Hi, Ive got about 16 acres available to me that i want to put in hay. It should be more than I need for my own animals and I should be able to sell off the excess. Ive found a s69 baler, a really old side delivery rake, and a wagon. I"m looking for a tractor and something to cut with. My question concerns the use of a mower conditioner. What advantages does using a mo-co have over just using a sickle bar mower. How much faster does the hay dry. Is the hay of better quality when its crimped. I"m more concerned about having better hay(nutrition is important)plus im looking to make a grass hay that they wont waste so much. The farmer that bales closeby usually cuts one day, flips the next and bales the third. He doesnt condition it. Any input would be greatly appreciated, Thanks Neal

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Neal in PA

05-07-2008 03:11:16




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 Re: want to do my own hay..Conditioner question in reply to Neal in PA, 05-04-2008 07:49:54  
Thanks for all of the responses. I"m leaning toward using a conditioner at this point. Seems that the price for a mo-co, even though a bit more than a sickle bar alone, will help make better hay,quicker. Thanks again, Neal (near York,PA)



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kmcampbe

05-05-2008 16:43:31




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 Re: want to do my own hay..Conditioner question in reply to Neal in PA, 05-04-2008 07:49:54  
Running a moco will allow the windrow to stay up some what and allow some air to pass through as the hay cures. A Sickle mower will lay it flat on the ground causing more dry down time. If it was me, I'd get the moco, what you loose in time of mowing you'll make up in dry down time and quality



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Finn Md

05-05-2008 11:08:35




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 Re: want to do my own hay..Conditioner question in reply to Neal in PA, 05-04-2008 07:49:54  
if you are going to cut grass hay, like Orchardgrass, you don't absolutely have to use a mower/conditioner and can get by OK with a sickle bar and a tedder. Just keep an eye on the weather. I currently do this with 40-acres of Orchardgrass in northern MD near PA line, with a Ford 515 sickle bar, Pequea 710 tedder, and Ferguson side rake. They're all 7-foot lengths and it works good when you can match such equipment. But, the mower/conditioner is an improvement over the traditional sickle bar. A lot depends on what you really want and your budget. The nutritional quality of hay won't matter for sickle vs mower/conditioner, as long as you keep moisture down about 18%. For tall grass like Orchargrass it's best to cut before it gets real stemmy and when the seed heads are all out, the leafy blades dry out easy. The sickle bar mowers are much cheaper and don't take much storage space, but require some learning to adjust - not difficult though. If you have more money available and indoor storage space get a nice mower/conditioner. If your still looking for a tractor try calling Nolts Equip. in Newville, PA. Not sure where in PA you are, but those folks at Nolts are honest people. They usually have decent used Massey Fergusons and also sometimes have used sickle bar mowers. The MF Dynabalance was a good sickle bar. I'd get a tractor with at least 50 PTO hp for baling. If you get a mower/conditioner you'll need remote hydraulics too, which is also needed if you later decide to get a round baler.

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jhilyer

05-05-2008 07:25:16




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 Re: want to do my own hay..Conditioner question in reply to Neal in PA, 05-04-2008 07:49:54  
Get a tedder. I live in NW PA, and a tedder is the best investment I ever made. I have a cut/conditional that is almost worn out (not much, if any, crimping action), and I think the tedder is doing way more than the cutter for drying time.

The thing is getting that cut hay "on the bottom" up to the sun. I used to cut had, leave it sit, and 3 days later the top was dry but the bottom was wet like the day I cut it! You can use a rake to roll it over for a day, but this doesn't work as well as tedding. Man, I love my tedder.

I think the color of the hay is important; I've always heard that good color = nutritional value.

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garytomaszewski

05-04-2008 16:41:08




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 Re: want to do my own hay..Conditioner question in reply to Neal in PA, 05-04-2008 07:49:54  
Conditioning is valuable in alfalfa/ clover not a big benefit in grass. You have no tractor an older baler and only 16 acres to me a conditioner seems like over kill. They are hi-maintenance and to me not worth the headache. Cut one AM, rake the next day when the dew is off, bale the third after the dew is off, if it has to lay an extra day all you lose is color. Whatever you are feeding won't know the difference, and if they do throw in more hay and maybe you won't have to worry about the surplus.

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Matt F-8

05-04-2008 16:36:57




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 Re: want to do my own hay..Conditioner question in reply to Neal in PA, 05-04-2008 07:49:54  
Neal,

Where abouts are you in PA? I am located in PA as well and maybe able to help.

Matt



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johns48jdb

05-04-2008 15:15:37




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 Re: want to do my own hay..Conditioner question in reply to Neal in PA, 05-04-2008 07:49:54  
i use to cut and bale for the public with 2 990's like one of the other guys has talked about. in n al i any hay i cut before dinner one day i raked and baled the next. with the price of fuel i would buy a mo/co and leave a off a tedder. they are nice if your crop gets rained on. first off don't take the chance. any time there was a 20% chance of rain i never cut. get to be friends with a guy at the nearest us weather office. they'll tell you straight on the weather without guessing at it. next you don't need wagons to haul hay on. they are to hard to back into a unloading place. unloading place - best if you have a shed that you can drive through that is closed in all the way around and big doors to open and drive through. shipping plates are good if you can't do better to stack on. always turn the first bale up on edge. the rats want eat the strings off of them as ease. get a cat. i actually prefer to haul hay on a one ton truck. have some side boards on it that only go back about 3/4 of the length of the bed. leave the end of the side borads off near the rear end. nothing fancy just some 2x4 and 1x4's and your good to go. using a rack on the sides and front keeps from having to stop and tie the hay off in the field if you try to stack it to high or don't have good help who knows how to stack right. if you don't mind losing a few bales to start with try stacking the first bale down flat against something at its back. next bale goes on its edge in front of the first bale. the next run goes across these two first bales and that makes a natural tilt to the stack from the word go. if you stack real high you'll see why thats important real quick. advertise your hay to be picked up in the field on a first come first serve bases. if they want you to leave them some to pick up don't unless they bring you a trailer and let you load it for them and them come pick it up. people have a tendency to not show and at dark your out there trying to pick up the hay you left for them. i actually prefer to have enough trailers around to stack all i'm going to bale in a days time on. if its fixing to rain or to hot to unload then you have the hay on trailers and you can unload them at night or early the next day. putting the hay on trailers means you can put it under a shed or cover with a tarp if you have to to beat the rain. at least its not laying in the field bailed and getting rained on. never cut all of it at one time. if your going to cut the field at two different times just cut a third of the field the first time, if your laying off the field all the way around. which is what you should to to cut down on the number of times you make turns at corners on your hay stand.

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John S-B

05-04-2008 13:50:10




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 Re: want to do my own hay..Conditioner question in reply to Neal in PA, 05-04-2008 07:49:54  
You MAY be able to find a sickle bar mower that has an option to run a conditioner off the back of the mower with a pto extention. I know Oliver made one. I've seen several plain conditioners for sale cheap.



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Randy-IA

05-04-2008 12:53:57




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 Re: want to do my own hay..Conditioner question in reply to Neal in PA, 05-04-2008 07:49:54  
I started with a old Oliver sickle . I had a lot of rained on hay the first year . And it was badly bleached before it got dry enough to bale . I am now using a old IH 990 . It has needed a fair bit of work to get it working right but I have it closer now and on the grass hay I cut I can cut one day in the afternoon , and sometimes bale late the next day . Mostly on the second and third cuttings when it's really hot out . On the alfalfa /grass mix it's always three days minimum mostly because I have a full time job and can't cut till late afternoon . Hay NEEDS to be cut as early in the day as possible - with a mo-co that will be as soon as most of the dew is gone . If the reel is adjusted well a little dampness doesn't bother it like with a sickle . You'll figure out what's too damp for the conditioner you buy . I like my 990 because the rolls open when it's lifted in case it gets plugged with wet hay . And it's a swather as well as a windrower . I've never used anything but this one but when looking at them at auctions it appears that most are strictly windrowers . The pro's will correct me on this . I still keep the sickle around as a backup and the year before last I had to use it when my PTO bearing quit on the first round on a Sunday on my big tractor . My Farmall M doesn't have hydraulics so I used a come-along to lift and lower the sickle . A LOT of work but I got it done and also got pretty good at square corners so I wouldn't have to lift the bar so often . So unless you have a large budget for 18 acres do some research and look at what you can get in your price range . I got mine for less than $500 and have put less than $200 into it ( new guards and knife ) and I'm satisfied with it for now . It's worn out but it works and it's all I can afford for six acres . AND it's pretty easy to work on compared to some of the tales I hear on this forum about having to take most of the machine apart to replace a belt . Good luck with whatever you decide ! ...Randy

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Leroy

05-04-2008 11:44:38




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 Re: want to do my own hay..Conditioner question in reply to Neal in PA, 05-04-2008 07:49:54  
As others have said, faster dry time and sopter for more palatibly. Then there is the real that if for some reason the grass starts to lay down the reel will pick it up to cut at proper height instead of sliding over the down stuff and possibly leaving 2/3 of the stalk left fast to ground for wast and pulling green hay into the winrow when rakinr and into the bale for spoilage. Then there is anouther thing to think about and that is your pets that would want to wander into the field or other wildlife as rabbits. With a cycle mar mower when they hear it comming will croutch down to hide from it thinking if it can't see then they will be safe instead of running to get away, have mowed up many a cat and rabbit that way. Now on the mower conditioner the can see the whole width of the unit comming and therefore will try to get out of its way instead of croutching down thinking it will go past them. Worth the mower conditioner just for that reason.

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Gerald J.

05-04-2008 09:16:33




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 Re: want to do my own hay..Conditioner question in reply to Neal in PA, 05-04-2008 07:49:54  
Conditioning into a windrow saved me a day of drying. Conditioning into a wide as possible swath, then raking saved another day. In central Iowa that got me down to 3 days and let me make more hay without getting it rained on.

When making alfalfa hay, conditioning gets a lot more leaf because the conditioning makes the stem dry nearly as fast as the leaf. All the value is in the leaf, the only value of the stem is as leaf holders.

Gerald J.

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Billy NY

05-04-2008 08:27:18




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 Re: want to do my own hay..Conditioner question in reply to Neal in PA, 05-04-2008 07:49:54  
Being in PA, you probably get similar weather and when it's raining often in hay season, the hay cut with a conditioner will need less dry time.

Way back, when I was real young we had an 11 acre field of thick hay grasses, behind our ford tractor dealership, was like orchard grass or similar, with some timothy, over an area that is an aquifier, water table only a few feet down, so it grew well dry weather or not, really thick crop, we used to have a side sickle mounted on a 64 4000 ford, later on had 2 ford mower conditioners, the dry time was much faster using the conditioner. Just going from memory, been a long time, though I often wondered that if you had enough dry time, after cutting with a sickle how much better was the uncrimped hay, if not rained on, or bleached by the sun, so many variables, preferences by location and methods to consider, I think the conditioner would be better, as it dries faster, not bleached by the sun as long to dry, that is if it dries, that field here was really tough to dry hay in sometimes. No hay expert just remembering things we did here. At one time, that's all there was around here, sickle mowers, the old timers would know, they too had to get hay in with what they had then.

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HAYBOY1

05-04-2008 08:24:41




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 Re: want to do my own hay..Conditioner question in reply to Neal in PA, 05-04-2008 07:49:54  
for an operation of that size and given your warmer climate than here, you may be able to get away with a sickle mower. I personally, would never try to put up hay without having it conditioned simultaneously. I am not sure what you will be feeding, but if it is for horses you will want to be very careful about putting up damp hay. Cattle and such are a litle more tolerable of dust vs. horses. You will certainly be baling sooner if the hay is conditioned, and besides putting it up earlier, the hay will be a little softer for palatibilty. You can try mowing with a sickle, and then hopefully find yourself tow behind conditioner. But to me that seems foolish (more trips around the field) You will save time by looking for a decent NH, JD, or even a Hesston mower conditioner. Just my two cents!! Good Luck

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