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Implement Alley Discussion Forum

Do I need an over-running clutch for 4ft mower?

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BBurton

04-22-2008 06:56:58




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I have a 1948 Ford 8N. Will I need an over-running clutch with a four foot brush hog or will it not be needed for that small a mower ?




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MF Poor

04-24-2008 07:05:20




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 Re: Do I need an over-running clutch for 4ft mower? in reply to BBurton, 04-22-2008 06:56:58  
In answer to the actual question posed, YES, an over-riding clutch is best. It"s possible to "get by" without one, but the ramifications of "getting by" can be disasterous.

Since, as you stated, you already have the N, and you"re looking to continue using it, and NOT asking what top 2 million other tractors options might be better/easier/more or less expensive, I"ll stick with a simple YES answer to your question.

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buickanddeere

04-24-2008 06:12:28




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 Re: Do I need an over-running clutch for 4ft mower? in reply to BBurton, 04-22-2008 06:56:58  
For the price of a Massey 35/135, 65/165 vs. the going price for the little Ford flippers. For the same money and the price of a couple of diners out.
Purchase the Massey with a diesel engine,live pto, a drawbar, real hydraulics, more transmission gears and power steering.
The Ford 2N,9N & 8N suffer from Ford loyalty and the disease called "lowest price no matter what".



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JK-NY

04-23-2008 18:36:01




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 Re: Do I need an over-running clutch for 4ft mower? in reply to BBurton, 04-22-2008 06:56:58  
Yes I would reccomend an overrunning clutch for any brush hog used on a tractor without live or independant pto.



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buickanddeere

04-23-2008 13:23:09




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 Re: Do I need an over-running clutch for 4ft mower? in reply to BBurton, 04-22-2008 06:56:58  
Ford mooched the three point hitch off of Fergason on a handshake deal. Once Ford had the hitch Mr. Fergason was shown the door. Fergason then went and made a deal with Massey. I may bleed JD green but those little Massey 35/135/65/165 were a very good tractor. They are cost competitive on the used market with any Ford and are a far superior tractor.



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MF Poor

04-24-2008 03:32:50




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 Re: Do I need an over-running clutch for 4ft mower? in reply to buickanddeere, 04-23-2008 13:23:09  
Sorry to muddy up a good "spin" on reality with something so useless as THE FACTS, but I guess there's still a place for the truth with a few of us.

Harry Ferguson patented his 3-point hitch and draft control in 1929. He put it to use on the Ferguson "Black" tractor as a way to demonstrate his idea. A few years later, he incorporated the hitch with a tractor built by David Brown. Known as the Ferguson Brown, it failed to take the world of agriculture by storm. In 1938 Ferguson presented his idea to Henry Ford, who was trying to develope a small, economic tractor to take advantage of the increasing demand for "mechanized" farming in the US and abroad. Ford had the marketing and production capabilities. Ferguson had the design. First the 9N, then in the WWII years, the 2N were wildly successful. Both Ford AND Ferguson were happy with their famous HANDSHAKE AGREEMENT. NO ONE "MOOCHED" anything. When Henry Ford died, and his son took the helm of Ford Motor Company, he decided to leave Ferguson out of the picture as a new model, the 8N was being developed. Ferguson was no longer receiving his "cut". At that point, In late 1947, Ferguson went to British Automobile manufacturer, STANDARD Motor Co. and offered to put their now post WWII idle manufacturing plants to good use with a tractor line. Standard was already building a tractor. Fergusons hitch, draft control, and hydraulics were incorperated in the STANDARD designed chassis. The TE-20 was born. Ferguson launched a lawsuit against Ford Motor Company.

The TE-20 was a slightly better tractor overall. Ford had a huge advantage with a well established dealer network and production capabilities far beyond that of Standard Motors/Ferguson. For those reasons, the 8N initially outsold the TE-20.

Ferguson was an inventor. He was NOT a marketing genious. His efforts to create a dealer network in North America never really got rolling. Even after establishing production facilities in the US, he never really managed to turn a profit. The proceeds from the lawsuit won against Ford for patent infringement were all that stood between Ferguson and "red ink".

In 1953, Ferguson started negotiations with the management at Massey Harris. MH had an established dealer network in the US and Canada. They had a big share of the North American combine market as well as a great line-up of implements. MH was behind the curve as far as their tractor line though. August 12, 1953, the 2 companies combined. It was termed a merger by some (Harry Ferguson primarily) , but in all actuality, Ferguson was bought out. He was paid off in stock in the new company. He stayed on in an advisory capacity for a few years, but became disenchanted with his ever DECREASING role in the design end of the business. Ferguson was also involved with the developement of an "all wheel drive system" he was working on. That took most of his time. (The 4WD system ended up on an F1 race car and is the basis of the all wheel drive system STILL used by Range Rover to this day)

Massey Harris Ferguson continued as one company selling 2 seperate lines for a few years. Massey Harris dealers sold MH, and Ferguson dealers sold Ferguson, even as the products became more simular.

November 19th, 1957, the company was renamed Massey Ferguson. The famous TRIPLE TRIANGLE badge was introduced. Ferguson left the company in 1958 to pursue his other interest's.

Design work on tractors was continued under the guidance of former Ferguson associate, Herman Klemm.

Shortly after Ferguson left the company, the "DX" line of tractors began their developement. (100 series/1000series) No single model since has came anywhere near the production numbers of the hugely successful 135.

Massey Ferguson continued on as one of the largest and most successful farm equipment manufacturers in the world until corporate raider Conrad Black got his hands in the till. That started a chain of events that led to AGCO's eventual purchase of MF.

Harry Ferguson made his name in the world of agriculture during WWI. He was the importer who bought Waterloo Boy tractors to the British Isles to sell as rebadged "OVERTIME Tractors". Just as WWI was ending, the Waterloo Boy line was purchased by John Deere.

Imagine the possibilities IF Deere and Ferguson would have linked at that point!

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JK-NY

04-23-2008 19:01:10




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 Re: Do I need an over-running clutch for 4ft mower? in reply to buickanddeere, 04-23-2008 13:23:09  
Harry Ferguson approached Henry Ford to develop/market a small tractor using Fergusons patented 3 point hitch.They entered into business with the famous "handshake agreement" which lasted till after Henry Ford Sr passed on. At that point the Ford 8N was developed and the haandshake agreement was terminated . Mr Ferguson sued Ford Motor Co., and began production of the Ferguson tractors , later ine the mid 1950's merging with MH .

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kossuth

04-23-2008 14:40:22




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 Re: Do I need an over-running clutch for 4ft mower? in reply to buickanddeere, 04-23-2008 13:23:09  

buickanddeere said: (quoted from post at 13:23:09 04/23/08) Ford mooched the three point hitch off of Fergason on a handshake deal. Once Ford had the hitch Mr. Fergason was shown the door. Fergason then went and made a deal with Massey. I may bleed JD green but those little Massey 35/135/65/165 were a very good tractor. They are cost competitive on the used market with any Ford and are a far superior tractor.
I'll challenge that one. Yeah the 35, 135, 65, and 165 were/are good machines but you are comparing apples to oranges here. The 8n is essentially a mid to late 1940's design the tractors you mentioned are late 50s to early 60's designs. If you want a fair comparision compare the TO-20, TE-20, and TO-30 to the 8n. The Ferguson tractors seemed to have alittle more power but they were also infamous with their reputations of cracked blocks. Granted this happens usually if the cooling system or something else is neglected, but how many of these old machines have seen neglect from somebody at one point in their existence?. The Ferguson tractors are also alittle more thristy than the little N's Plus the early Ferguson machines are essentially 95% the same in design as the little fords. The little ford's have their problems too IE cracked oil pickup tubes Lack of a factory temp gauge ect ect but either machine is a good one just depends how they are maintained.

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Gerald J.

04-23-2008 14:30:48




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 Re: Do I need an over-running clutch for 4ft mower? in reply to buickanddeere, 04-23-2008 13:23:09  
Actually the handshake worked from 1939 to 1948. Then they had a falling out. And Ferguson went to Massey-Harris.

Though I have to agree that the MF-35 and MF-135 make the 8N look like a toy. I had an 8N once and I farm 23 acres with a 135. Twice the power and weight sure does make it work the ground well. To say nothing of having 12 speeds forward to match the task to the ground speed.

Gerald J.

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JK-NY

04-23-2008 18:41:05




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 Re: Do I need an over-running clutch for 4ft mower? in reply to Gerald J., 04-23-2008 14:30:48  
Actually Harry Ferguson made/marketed the Ferguson tractors a few years after parting ways with Ford and didnt merge with Massey Harris till about 1955 or 56.



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prawnfarmer

04-22-2008 15:45:10




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 Re: Do I need an over-running clutch for 4ft mower? in reply to BBurton, 04-22-2008 06:56:58  
I am a forum reader and rarely post, however, you do need an over-riding clutch. A little over 20 years ago,despite warnings of fence post and tree climbing risks from my wife's grandpa and my father-in-law, I ended up mowing the bottom of a 14ft deep pond with a 4ft bush hog hooked up to an 8N. Don't count on putting tractor into neutral to get out of trouble. It don't work that way. Family and friends still rib me about it - and it is hard to live down.

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NawlensGator

04-22-2008 13:28:45




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 Re: Do I need an over-running clutch for 4ft mower? in reply to BBurton, 04-22-2008 06:56:58  

I've been mowing with a 6 ft finish mower for about 25 yrs and I have to push the clutch in everytime I stop. Hasn't been a problem. I can flick the pto out of gear with a simple flick of the pto lever which I do on occasion.



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johns48jdb

04-23-2008 16:02:35




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 Re: Do I need an over-running clutch for 4ft mower? in reply to NawlensGator, 04-22-2008 13:28:45  
there is a lot of difference in the monentum between a bush hog and a finish mower. you still need to get the over riding clutch. i tried setting some trusses with a home made rig one and spent 6 days in intensive care with 24 staples in my head. the crease thats there still itches to remind me that being cheap isn't being safe. you can't put a price on your life or anybody else who might use your tractor and not be use to it. why be sorry when you can be safe.

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buickanddeere

04-22-2008 17:21:11




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 Re: Do I need an over-running clutch for 4ft mower? in reply to NawlensGator, 04-22-2008 13:28:45  
Incident, not accident over due to happen.



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NawlensGator

04-23-2008 06:55:42




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 Re: Do I need an over-running clutch for 4ft mower? in reply to buickanddeere, 04-22-2008 17:21:11  

Point well taken. How would I go about installing an over-run clutch on a 140 PTO?



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SuperA-Tx

04-23-2008 10:02:43




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 Re: Do I need an over-running clutch for 4ft mower? in reply to NawlensGator, 04-23-2008 06:55:42  
Gator,

They just have one "pin" you hammer in and then screw the greese zerk on. Takes a minute at the most.

I found it handy when you have to do a lot of backing up when your mowing. Before I got the clutch I had to wait for the mower to stop but with a clutch you can engage it without it comming to a complete stop and it just picks right back up.

Since your adding about three inches you also want to make sure the shaft on the mower that is comming off the pto is not to long. Shouldnt be a problem unless you mow in ditches but if you do then the two parts of the shaft can bottom out and bend. Cousin did that one time.

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James Howell

04-22-2008 12:56:12




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 Re: Do I need an over-running clutch for 4ft mower? in reply to BBurton, 04-22-2008 06:56:58  
Yes, use an over-run clutch on your tractor.

The rotary mower will still "push" your tractor unless you put the tractor in neutral.

Hope this helps.



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BCnT

04-22-2008 10:51:44




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 Re: Do I need an over-running clutch for 4ft mower? in reply to BBurton, 04-22-2008 06:56:58  
it will make your life easier...i shredded for many years without one on a small ford with no real problems but recently picked up a '52 8N that already had the orc on it...sure is nice to be able to stop tractor anytime i want without kickin tranny into neutral.

as far as buyin a newer tractor with all the bells n whistles PFFFFF FT!
that 8N will still be shreddin when that new one is on the slow boat back to china.

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old

04-22-2008 07:02:23




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 Re: Do I need an over-running clutch for 4ft mower? in reply to BBurton, 04-22-2008 06:56:58  
YES you need one. Doesn't matter the size of the hog because it will push you just like a 5 or 6 footer



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buickanddeere

04-22-2008 06:59:50




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 Re: Do I need an over-running clutch for 4ft mower? in reply to BBurton, 04-22-2008 06:56:58  
Yes or land upside down dead in some ditch or pond. Best solution is to trade for something with live pto, power steering, diff lock, a proper drawbar, rear hydraulic remotes and a model without the tendency to flip over onto the driver.



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usetabesteve

04-22-2008 13:30:35




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 Re: Do I need an over-running clutch for 4ft mower? in reply to buickanddeere, 04-22-2008 06:59:50  
Don't hold back, now. Tell us how you really feel. I agree that the Ford N family is overrated compared to a lot of other tractors, but they sold so many of them and so many of them are still in use that they must have done something right.



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buickanddeere

04-22-2008 17:19:51




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 Re: Do I need an over-running clutch for 4ft mower? in reply to usetabesteve, 04-22-2008 13:30:35  
Low price and Ford Loyalty sold so many of the little killers.



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RickB

04-23-2008 02:47:41




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 Re: Do I need an over-running clutch for 4ft mower? in reply to buickanddeere, 04-22-2008 17:19:51  
Not to mention the three point hitch that the whole world adopted.



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