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Implement Alley Discussion Forum

Plowing

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Walterep

04-18-2008 09:03:09




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I just plowed my first furrow with a Ford 101 14" two bottom plow in stony loam. The first bottom is turning the sod nicely but the second bottom ends up just pushing the sod to the side. Basically the first bottom picks up the sod and pushes it up and to the right. The sod is still attached at the bottom so over it goes. The second bottom does the same thing but when it pushes to the right there is no resistance and so the sod just slides to the right rather than going up and over. I've tried speeding things up but the same thing still happens. The plow is cutting 7" deep, so I guess that's working right. Almost seems like it would work better if the first bottom was the left hand one and the second bottom followed on the right, but these things were worked out years before I was even born I am sure. This is my first step towards teaching myself to plow. Thanks in advance for any help.

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johns48jdb

04-19-2008 17:59:41




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 Re: Plowing in reply to Walterep, 04-18-2008 09:03:09  
after the first round your plow should be set where the frame is level from front to back and side to side too. does the points on the plows look to be the same shape and size. somebody may have the wrong points on the rear bottom



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M Moline Fan

04-19-2008 04:37:16




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 Re: Plowing in reply to Walterep, 04-18-2008 09:03:09  
What you're describing sounds like a rusty plow shear that's not scouring. If your plow shear is rusty and soil sticking to it, you need to polish it to get rid of rust.



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Gary,kansas

04-18-2008 09:39:20




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 Re: Plowing in reply to Walterep, 04-18-2008 09:03:09  
Walter, from what you are saying,if the sod is still attached at the bottom, you are most likely taking to big a cut,(more than 14") While it may visually look better on the surface it is not cutting the roots and will show up later with a green strip. You must either adjust your right wheel. or adjust your plow farther to the right. It also sounds like your plow does not have a land polish and is not scouring, this will cause your plow to crowd (push away from the already plowed ground) causing the first bottom to take a wider cut. You can hand polish the moldboards making them as polished as you can and then fight it to a land polish which will most likely mean running it in sandy conditions or fighting it over numerous acres and cleaning the moldboard of dirt often. Now if the problem is on top of the ground, do as the previous post suggested and adjust the coulter for a smooth cut. Plowing is sort of an art, it takes time and experience to get good at it, small acreages do not help. Good Luck.

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Walterep

04-18-2008 13:41:39




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 Re: Plowing in reply to Gary,kansas, 04-18-2008 09:39:20  
Thanks. When I say my first furrow, I mean my first furrow. So there is nothing to the right of my plow but green grass. The first bottom cuts and pushes the sod up and rolls it right over. If I had only one bottom I'd consider myself pretty good. The second bottom is doing the same thing, only just as the strip of sod is about to roll over. it slides a little to the right and back down the mouldboard without flipping. Neither mouldboard is bright shiny, but nothing is sticking to them. The coulters appear to be doing their job and cutting the sod.
I'm definitely going to have green strips if I plow like this. Every other furrow is still right side up! The plows seem to be running straight, and about where they should be. Does speed make a difference? Maybe I'm poking along too slowly.
Thanks for your encouragement and advice.

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M Moline Fan

04-19-2008 12:49:08




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 Re: Plowing in reply to Walterep, 04-18-2008 13:41:39  
Now you remind me of dad's old Little Genius plow. On the plow shears there were rectangle plates bolted on, about 6" long as I remember. Those plates pushed the soil farther over so the sod didn't fall back upright. That sounds like what you need. Also, in tall grass he used to hook long wires to the coulters. Those rode up over the grass as the ground was being turned and held the grass down so it was covered.

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Billy NY

04-19-2008 10:57:12




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 Re: Plowing in reply to Walterep, 04-18-2008 13:41:39  
I'm not much of an expert on the terminology, or plow techniques and adjustments, but am familiar with the 2 bottoms like these.

Last week I had a Harry Ferguson 2 bottom behind my 850 ford, not that different from the Ford plows, and at first it did similar to what you describe, front bottom went in, rear just scuffed the surface. That was ok, as I was trying to flip an old windrow of soil, humped up along where an old silt fence was installed, wanted to level er off. Kind of using it like a 1 bottom.

Well, I decided that I'd best do the width of my disc, so I adjusted the top link so the plow had a more aggressive bite, and immediately it was sinking in hard, so I backed er off a little, close to level, also adjusted my level box on the right 3pt arm, so that side was slightly lower, supposed to be level, but it helped keep that furrow flipping over on opposing slopes. I pulled it in 3rd gear which is a good speed on this tractor to keep some motion on those furroughs flipping over. I don't think my position control works properly, does not adjust for draft when in that position, so I did it by hand, which was not often, the plow seemed to work efficiently as adjusted, especially if I could pull it in 3rd gear, so I was probably close to a good adjustment with the top link and level box. This plow is a friends, someone broke the tail wheel off and it's missing the front coulter, never been painted after use either ( I agree on that, just the right thing to do) but in these soils it scoured up in one pass, moldboards take longer, somewhat pitted, and those are what will hold soil if wet or fine silty type, sticky gumbo, I'd think that would be real important. I'm fortunate that every time I've used this plow, I've been able to easily make the adjustments, on the flat level side to side with the level box, and front to back with the top link, it works pretty good, though I think the furrows might flip easier with smoother moldboards, the idea is to completely turn over the sod, and not leave any exposed, sometimes that is not always the case with this one. I had fun with it, got it scoured up for my friend, he needed to use it for a small plot.

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Walterep

04-21-2008 13:54:32




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 Re: Plowing in reply to Billy NY, 04-19-2008 10:57:12  
Thanks Billy. I made a few more passes. It may be that nothing is really wrong...I'm not sure. The sod doesn't quite flip over, its more like its standing up. Its pretty crumbly loam, so there certainly isn't anything sticking to the moldboard. Maybe the shape of the moldboards don't flip the sod as aggressively in sandy loam. I think that things are set up pretty well. Furrows are of equal depths. Let me know if you have any other ideas.

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Billy NY

04-21-2008 18:03:36




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 Re: Plowing in reply to Walterep, 04-21-2008 13:54:32  
Hired help did this once with the same H.F. plow, never adjusted it right to get it to bite in.

I've had that problem on uneven ground, went down into the soil deep enough, just not enough umph to roll it over. I've also plowed with it when the leveling box was still seized, no way to adjust that and it worked good, must have been close to level. With that now working, I sometimes will adjust it to favor the furrough, adjusting that side to be lower, it helps on sidehills when fighting the slope, turns it right over.

Not sure if you also have a combination of things cumulatively working against you, soil too dry, speed not enough to help give it some momentum to roll over, top link set too agressively, digging in causing slippage, loss of speed, more adjsutments to try.


You do have the plow adjusted to the tractor so that the one front wheel, (depends on which way the plow is casting) goes down into the clear cut area near the closest furrough, the plow is taking a correct bite, you're not leaving an unturned green patch between the previous furrough and the one you are now pulling the plow through. Meaning, the plow is not offset too far from the last furrough, it's aligned to take the correct cut and the outside furrough should flop right over.

Soil conditions vary and can dicatate performance, thickly rooted sod, too dry, need to slice that with the coulter.

Trial and error with adjustments, no harm there.

Are the wear surfaces, point, shares all that shined up ? This old H.F. plow takes one pass to polish up, moldboards are slightly pitted but do shine up a bit, not much sticks to em, they certainly don't polish up, or I have not done enough continuous plowing to get them to, seems to roll over most soil here, deeper loam type topsoil even with heavy sod and in drier conditions it will still bite in and make a respectable furrough.

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Walterep

04-22-2008 03:06:54




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 Re: Plowing in reply to Billy NY, 04-21-2008 18:03:36  
Thanks Billy. Your comments are useful. I think with a little more experience, I'll eventually get it right. Thanks again for taking the time to write a well thought out answer. Hope things are thawing out over your way. (I'm in VT.) It was a long winter, but its turned into a hot,dry spring.



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Billy NY

04-22-2008 04:41:30




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 Re: Plowing in reply to Walterep, 04-22-2008 03:06:54  
Only 25 miles west of Bennington, same thing going on here, hot and dry now going on 2 weeks, with another dry spell before that and only one good downpour in between, I did some plowing right after that rain, was not too wet. March was cold and winterlike,no smooth transition, been like summer, leaves are going to pop out any time, seems that happens earlier, used to be in mid May. Might get some rain this week, but dry weather still appears to be prevalent, mini-drought going on here.

Hopefully you'll figure out that 2 bottom

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BushogPapa

04-18-2008 16:54:51




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 Re: Plowing in reply to Walterep, 04-18-2008 13:41:39  
Here, we would call that a "Headland", as opposed to a "Deadfurrow"..

Remember that, to strike a Headland, the plow has to be (as on a 2-bottom) set deeper at the right side for the 1st round... Then, on the second and succeeding rounds, the plow has to be set back to more level settings, because the tractor and right wheel of the plow, if it is pull-type are running in a furrow and the plow will go in too deep if you don't adjust. Let us know how you do...!! Plowing can be "FUN"...!!!!

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Gary,kansas

04-18-2008 15:26:25




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 Re: Plowing in reply to Walterep, 04-18-2008 13:41:39  
Walter, help me quit assuming, how much time have you spent plowing? I can maybe help a little more if I know how familier you are with your plow. It sounds to me like your trying to start a land and are creating a back furrow. The old professionals plowed at around 1 1/2 mph trying not to break their cut so it would look like one long rope of turned earth. The perfect job of plowing disappeared when chemicals took care of that green strip and the plow was no longer the first line of defense in weed control.

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Walterep

04-18-2008 15:50:01




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 Re: Plowing in reply to Gary,kansas, 04-18-2008 15:26:25  
Thanks Gary. I've done about 30 minutes of plowing. I've spent much more than that setting up the plows, and I think I understand how the different parts work. I made one pass and saw that things were not working properly. I'm pretty good with machinery and cutting tools, so I know when something isn't working.
I guess you could say I am cutting a back furrow...its one straight furrow down an unplowed field, where nobody can see me practice. Nothing is bent, damaged or drastically misaligned on the plow bottoms. The only difference in the results I am getting from the two bottoms are because the one on the right has uncut sod to the right of it and the one on the left doesn't. I guess I could now try plowing a second pass to the left of the first,and see if the first bottom still does a good job. That would tell me if the two bottoms are somehow different in a way that I am not seeing. Should the plows be headed straight in the direction they are moving or sightly skewed? Maybe if they were skewed they would flip the sod more aggressively. But then again the way I have it set, they are cutting 14", just like they are intended to do. Thanks again for your advice.

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Gary,kansas

04-18-2008 17:14:25




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 Re: Plowing in reply to Walterep, 04-18-2008 15:50:01  
Walter, most modern plowmen would start a land much the way you did ,except they may try to lower the front of the plow some by lowering it more by lowering the 3 pt . By the time you make your 3rd round your plow should be pretty close to level. If your plow has had a previous owner a lot of adjustments could already be made. Now if you want to be closer to what was done before the use of chemicals to kill that green strip, you will lower the front of the plow by adjusting the 3pt arm on the furrow side , if it is a pull type plow you use the lever on the furrow wheel to lower the front. After you strike your first land reset your plow back to level when your wheel is in the furrow. The use of chemicals has eliminated the plow as the first line of defense , that coupled with larger and better tillage equipment has allowed us to do a sloppy job with the plow. Your plow will never work perfectly until you get a �land polish� on it. Once you get that polish always grease your moldboards even over nite. There is a soft paint you can get but I prefer grease unless you have to store the plow outside. Make a couple more rounds and see if your not more satisfied. Post back and let me know if you think I can be of more help. Good Luck.

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Leroy

04-18-2008 14:01:45




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 Re: Plowing in reply to Walterep, 04-18-2008 13:41:39  
At times speed will cause problems as well, sounds like your plows are bent, the back bottom sprung from catching on something



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BCnT

04-18-2008 09:09:11




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 Re: Plowing in reply to Walterep, 04-18-2008 09:03:09  
thats what coulters are for.
also make sure both bottoms are cutting 7" deep.



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