Welcome! Please use the navigational links to explore our website.
PartsASAP LogoCompany Logo (800) 853-2651

Shop Now

   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver

Attention Forum Users: On the 28th of December 2023 at 9:00am Central Time, we will be taking the forums down for maintenance while we prepare the new forums for your use. Please click here for more information.

Implement Alley Discussion Forum

Pole barn - Concrete Floor - Can I do myself??

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author 
Joe in IN

01-22-2008 06:56:54




Report to Moderator

I have a 36X54 barn with about 5-6 inches of re-crush on the floor. I am wanting to put concrete in. Gravel floor brings in to much moisture and isn't good for my hay....

So, I thought of breaking it into 18 foot sections(posts are 9 feet apart). Each weekend for 3 weekends pour an 18X36 slab. Thought of using 1X4 PT lumber for forms and leaving them in place for expansion joints. Was going to pour roughly 4 inches of concrete(with fiberglass for strength). Each load is about 8.25 - 8.5 yards.

Guy down the road wants $1 a foot to finish. Seems high to me given what I want. I do not need a polished floor, it's a barn. Level it off and smooth but certainly not polished.

Can a do it yourselfer buy a float and a long handle and finish himself given he has no concrete finishing experience? To make look pretty I am sure there is an art which needs skill, but for a barn floor would it be that tough?

What do I not know that makes it seem not difficult to do?

[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
HeyPigFarmer

02-10-2008 14:52:54




Report to Moderator
 Re: Pole barn - Concrete Floor - Can I do myself?? in reply to Joe in IN, 01-22-2008 06:56:54  
I agree with Randy he seems to be on the right track. I used to do this as part of my job, but I was the material's tester/concrete inspector on commercial sites. Watch 1000 yards of concrete get poured every day, day after day.
In my opinion a one man show is near impossible to end up with a good finish.
Randy is dead spot on, Flyash will make the concrete cheaper but will make it harder to finish and less durable. If you can afford it go 4000psi, that is a lot more typical for slabs. Before you pour take a vibratory plate packer to the ground surface, the better the compaction the fewer the cracks later. Always use a vapor barrier. Use a concrete vibrator to get the air out of the slab. Air pockets have zero strength. Do not spray water on it before it cures. After you get your initial set on it you can spray water on it then to help gain some strength because as long as the cement powder is above 70% moisture it will gain strength indefinitely but the gains after 36 hours are minimal. If you pour in more than one section always leave rebar ties from one slab section to the next to connect the slabs, otherwise you get differential settlement and one slab can shift higher or lower than the other.
The only thing I disagree on is the fiberglass in the concrete. That is the biggest farce in the world of concrete today. Use rebar or wire mesh because the surface of the fiberglass is smooth, the concrete has nothing to anchor to so it basically does nothing. If the concrete cracks or pulls it can slip past the fibers. That's why rebar has the raised areas on it, for grip. Wire mesh has the intersection every 6 inches to fight against. If you use wire mesh make sure you either use chairs or tie it to bars to elevate the mesh off the floor or pull it into the mix, otherwise it does nothing.

When it comes to asphalt it will go faster, usually the asphalt company will come and prep the surface before placement. Generally it is cheaper. The down side is it is not as durable. If you are going to be moving heavy equipment across it in the dead of summer it can rut, it starts to become plastic and bend at 77 degrees and gets softer as the temp goes up. You can also dig into it with a loader bucket if not to experienced with the machine. But it would be a good surface to stack on. Good luck.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Ian Jones, Nanaimo, Canad

02-10-2008 08:00:40




Report to Moderator
 Re: Pole barn - Concrete Floor - Can I do myself?? in reply to Joe in IN, 01-22-2008 06:56:54  
DON'T use concrete. Oil based ashphalt paving will pay for itself in the first year. Oil in pavement seals and does not allow moisture tranfer. Did our hay barn 15 years ago(3/4 minus crush base, compacted, 2" layer of ashpalt, placed with road paving machine) Absolutly no more bottom bale problems. No more ankle breaking, rat hiding pallets. End of the year, drop the bucket on tractor and barn is clean. Even the horse girls that won't take bottom bales are cured.( we just throw them on the stack after they leave) AT $7.00 per bale for timothey hay it pays for it self fast.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Randy-IA

01-23-2008 19:45:27




Report to Moderator
 Re: Pole barn - Concrete Floor - Can I do myself?? in reply to Joe in IN, 01-22-2008 06:56:54  
I do this as part of my job . You can do it yourself but not in those sizes . Break it down into more managable sizes . Finishing concrete is tough especially after you've poured it yourself . These guys have some real good ideas on that . We do it with a powered screed either the weedeater type or a delta beam type . 18' wide is to much to hand screed with a weedeater type in one pass by yourself . We just did 45 yards ( 4 different slabs ) two weeks ago and the widest we did was 22 feet and we split that in two parts with 5 healthy twenty-somethings ( plus four of us 40+ somethings ) that do this for a living and a rented aluminum weedeater screed , it took us about four hours to pour and another 4 to finish with a light broom finish . It is the public swimming pool bottom in a town near here . Use the loose fiberglass that they mix in the truck and forget the rebar . Ask for no flyash in the mix , the price goes up there too but it's a lot easier to finish . Glass fibercrete isn't all that easy to work in the first place . A couple of weeks later you can run a weedburner torch over it to melt the fibers that are exposed - makes it less itchy to work on . The more water you put in to make it easier to work the more risk you have for cracking ( that water has to go somewhere ) and with a vapor barrier it all has to come to the surface and evaporate . Four inches of 3500lb mix with glass will carry most tractors you'll get in there but ask for the price difference for 4000lb anyway and make up your own mind . Remember a 2x4 is only 3-1/2 " . Use a 2x6 and bury the extra in the base for a form . Pull strings if you want good formwork . Like was suggested use redwood for expansion joint if it's wood you want in there otherwise just get regular expansion joint from the lumberyard 3/8" will do fine and work better in my opinion . Put it on at the begining of the second pour and don't let any mix get behind it . The more water and the cooler the temps the longer you'll have to work it after it's down ( remember the water thing ? ) It's a balancing act . DON'T try and re-temper with water after it's down or it'll spall . Don't sprinkle powder on it to get it to set faster it'll spall . That's when the surface get's water under it and when it freezes it lifts off in a layer . I know everyone said it ain't rocket science but it is an art to do it good . Don't let me scare you out of doing it but go into it with your eyes open and realize that the people that do it for a living can sometimes save you a bundle over doing it yourself because if it flashes before your ready that's it - you're done - and that's what you have to live with . Good luck with it ! ...Randy

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
rettchr

01-23-2008 10:22:53




Report to Moderator
 Re: Pole barn - Concrete Floor - Can I do myself?? in reply to Joe in IN, 01-22-2008 06:56:54  
Assuming :
1 You are only interested in storage of small bales. If you want to store large bales, either round or square, stop reading now.
2. One-person job is important.

I suggest that you forget about concrete. As implied earlier, you still need something like wood pallets on top of the concrete to prevent spoilage of the bottom layer.
Aside: are the same people using pallets the same ones who moan about how hard it is to get people to help them unload small bales? Old pallets are not nice to walk on while carrying bales- I had a real knack for finding broken boards.

Instead put down a solid, heavy vapor barrier. Putting this on sand over a gravel base would be good. Then lay down sleepers such as landscape timbers although something like 4x6 treated would be better, but a lot more money. Fasten a �floor� of � OSB down to the sleepers. One person can do this and there are not time constraints like you get with wet concrete. However, this wood �floor� will not take any vehicle traffic�Note initial assumptions.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Joe in IN

01-23-2008 11:01:00




Report to Moderator
 Re: Pole barn - Concrete Floor - Can I do myself?? in reply to rettchr, 01-23-2008 10:22:53  
I do use pallets now and have the problems.

I have thought about your suggestions previously, I am trying to think long term. Like the day I no longer want to bale hay and want a shop to fix an old car or a wood shop....whatever my hobby will be at the time.

I want to take something apart(equipment, car, rototiller etc) and not drop a screw into the gravel and spend 10 minute looking for it.

I always find the broken board like you or worse find the spot between boards(not nice to ankles).

Concrete, taxes or no is what I want. Now how to do cheaply.....

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Chas. Ont.

01-23-2008 08:23:22




Report to Moderator
 Re: Pole barn - Concrete Floor - Can I do myself?? in reply to Joe in IN, 01-22-2008 06:56:54  
I put concrete in my barnyard twenty years ago. I was all alone so put down eight inches of crushed stone, leveled it, then I spread six inches of gravel. I calculated how much cement I would need and spread that on the gravel with my 3ph fertilizer spreader. Next came the garden hose for the water content. I set the rotor tiller at five inches and tilled the whole thing adding water were it needed.The only help I had was my wife who handle the water. I made up a darby board and finished it with that. The concrete is still there, only a few cracks. I'd do the same again.
Chas.Ont.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Pitalplace

01-23-2008 07:24:49




Report to Moderator
 Re: Pole barn - Concrete Floor - Can I do myself?? in reply to Tim(nj), 01-22-2008 06:56:54  
Here in Nebraska that concrete floor will cause your taxes to go up not a little but a lot. I only put a floor in half of mine and it made a big difference. I like to use pallets as it allows air movement under the hay.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
LEH

01-23-2008 05:25:54




Report to Moderator
 Re: Pole barn - Concrete Floor - Can I do myself?? in reply to Joe in IN, 01-22-2008 06:56:54  
Hire the guy that does it all the time. Pushing & pulling concrete will pull your arms out of their sockets. Very small areas are no problem for 1 guy {3' X 4'} Been there done that won't do it anymore.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
dlplost

01-22-2008 22:27:46




Report to Moderator
 Re: Pole barn - Concrete Floor - Can I do myself?? in reply to Joe in IN, 01-22-2008 06:56:54  
Just finished a 32 x 56 floor.

Yes you can do it your self!, but you'll need 2-4 helpers.

VAPOR barrier is a MUST, we used 6 mil black plastic.

Just how smooth a finish do you really want?
In an unheated area, a little ruffness will help keep you from slipping on a wet/icy floor.
Get yourself a bull float, pour and screed it off, then wait for it to set some then just go over it with the bullfloat, wont take much, you'll get the hang of it real quick, thats all you need to do.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Joe in IN

01-23-2008 05:59:59




Report to Moderator
 Re: Pole barn - Concrete Floor - Can I do myself?? in reply to dlplost, 01-22-2008 22:27:46  
Yes... using a vapor barrier

This is an unheated barn so a little roughness as you said is not a bad thing.

Everyone is telling me two helpers.

Is this to 'screed' off? Floating?

Since my barn is already built, I do not plan on removing all the steel to get the first(back) section. This will be a pain on the first pour. later pours a helper can be on the back already concrete section to help....

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Bill in NorthCentral PA

01-22-2008 19:07:23




Report to Moderator
 Re: Pole barn - Concrete Floor - Can I do myself?? in reply to Joe in IN, 01-22-2008 06:56:54  
I certianly don't want to offend any of the guys who can really finish concrete, but I'd say go for it - its not rocket science. I'd say make sure the edge form boards are strong, rent a screed vibrator (clamps to a 2x) and use a front loader truck. Have two helpers, one to help run the screed board and one to help keep concrete upto the board (without getting too much to pull). Screed an arms length, pick up, rescreed. Move back and start again. If the screeding goes well, the finish you are asking for is almost done.

Welded wire and fibermesh are shrinkage crack control. They do very, very little to strengthen the actual floor. Use the fiber and don't work about it getting pushed down too far, etc. If you have a section which will get heavy traffic, use a rebar grid, maybe #5 bar, 12 to 24 inches each way. Rebar needs a minimum of 3" cover, so 6+ inches thick in this area. Key the joints with rebar pins stuck through the form board or make a true keyway with a strip centered and nailed on the side of the first pour.

Yea, have at it. You can do it with a little help.

Bill

ps: I do agree about the condensation / wicking issue - use pallets to stack hay on.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
02

01-22-2008 18:31:02




Report to Moderator
 Re: Pole barn - Concrete Floor - Can I do myself?? in reply to Joe in IN, 01-22-2008 06:56:54  
Make sure you use a vapour barrier under the slab since concrete will wick moisture thru .



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Illinois Farmall

01-22-2008 18:09:33




Report to Moderator
 Re: Pole barn - Concrete Floor - Can I do myself?? in reply to Joe in IN, 01-22-2008 06:56:54  
When pouring concrete you can never have too much help. As others have mentioned, rebar or remesh would be a much better option. I've even used old woven wire fence as reinforcing. If you investing this much money just to keep your hay dry, pallets are cheap...even free in many areas. Another thing to consider which no one has mentioned is that the tax assessor will probably pull up right behind the first cement truck and reassess your building as improved causing your property taxes to go up.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
J.C.in AZ.

01-22-2008 16:51:00




Report to Moderator
 Re: Pole barn - Concrete Floor - Can I do myself?? in reply to Joe in IN, 01-22-2008 06:56:54  
As Jeff said you certainly need some help and the float art is easy to aquire. Couple minutes and you will have a handle on the art. I see nothing wrong with your approach to the job except ,I would put down an Plastic Vapor barrier underneath 1/2" rebar spaced about 36" on center and criss/crossed. The game plan of small pours rather than trying to pour it all at once is personal choice I think. I tend to think about doing it all at once and getting it over with but help may be an issue for this operation.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Joe in IN

01-23-2008 05:54:20




Report to Moderator
 Re: Pole barn - Concrete Floor - Can I do myself?? in reply to J.C.in AZ., 01-22-2008 16:51:00  
Yes I plan on vapor barrier.....

Small pours are due to lack of labor assistence... I hope to have 1 helper, maybe by myself....



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Jeff in TX

01-22-2008 16:28:59




Report to Moderator
 Re: Pole barn - Concrete Floor - Can I do myself?? in reply to Joe in IN, 01-22-2008 06:56:54  
Make sure you have at least 2 helpers. Use at least a 3500 pound mix. Instead of treated wood, use redwood.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
7812

01-22-2008 16:09:02




Report to Moderator
 Re: Pole barn - Concrete Floor - Can I do myself?? in reply to Joe in IN, 01-22-2008 06:56:54  
Joe, If your sole purpose for the concrete is to keep the bottom row of bales from spoiling the concrete ain't goin to cut it. My best luck on either a gravel floor or a dirt floor or even a concrete floor is to stack hay on pallets. Either that or let 5 - 6 inches of loose hay build up. 7812.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Joe in IN

01-23-2008 05:52:31




Report to Moderator
 Re: Pole barn - Concrete Floor - Can I do myself?? in reply to 7812, 01-22-2008 16:09:02  
I do use pallets and still lose bottom row....

I find an concrete floor nicer to work on equipment with. I usually end up digging through gravel looking for a small screw or something....



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Gun guru

01-22-2008 15:51:07




Report to Moderator
 Re: Pole barn - Concrete Floor - Can I do myself?? in reply to Joe in IN, 01-22-2008 06:56:54  
If you do it yourself be prepared for it too not look real good. But....You can use a long bristle broom to make it look "okay". (If you do it in sections) The broom helps hide the non-professional float technique that I lack. I had a 6X16 porch poured in 1999 and I used the broom way, it looked okay but I eventually put a 2 X 6 deck over it to raise it up to a correct level with the front door.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
phillip d

01-22-2008 11:59:50




Report to Moderator
 Re: Pole barn - Concrete Floor - Can I do myself?? in reply to Joe in IN, 01-22-2008 06:56:54  
You can do it with help of about 5 guys in one day.We did a 48x56 extension this summer ourselves and are happy.We used wire mesh for reinforcement.We used a 2x4 cut at the approiate length as a guide to level the floor.We left it 4" longer than the desired height from the floor to the bottom of the rafters and just went all over the floor and put alittle dirt here and removed some from there untill it was all level.Then we cut 4" off it to simulate it after cement and used it as a guide again to place 2x2" pegs every 8' both ways so we would have a guide to level the cement.We made a 4' wide 1x6" trowell with a 6' handle and when it was level as we were still pouring,we would jiggle it back towards us to level it.You need atleast one person who knows what they are doing and have alittle experience at it,the rest have to be in good shape with good strong backs because it needs to be drug with a plank to level,and it is very heavy and time consuming.Believe you me it is hard work and you only have so long to get it right,or you will have a mess that you either have to live with,or remove and start over.It can be done,but just be prepared ahead of time.pd.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
hd6gtom

01-22-2008 10:15:46




Report to Moderator
 Re: Pole barn - Concrete Floor - Can I do myself?? in reply to Joe in IN, 01-22-2008 06:56:54  
When I had my shop put up 36x54 the guys recomended concrete with fiberglass in it. It was put up ten years ago and still no cracks. I regret not putting any styrofoam below it. It will sweat in front of both big doors. I would not advise you to do this yourself. They poured mine all in 1 slab. The fiberglas in the concrete can be real itchy, untill it gets worn a bit.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
johns48jdb

01-22-2008 09:26:57




Report to Moderator
 Re: Pole barn - Concrete Floor - Can I do myself?? in reply to Joe in IN, 01-22-2008 06:56:54  
i wouldn't do it myself at all. if this guy does it for a living let him do the whole thing. you can pour it in sections and pour 3 - 9 foot sections at one time. then the next pour you'll have 1 or 2 sides of the first pour to act as sides foir the second pour. put a lot of slop to it and finish it fairly smooth because you may want to keep it swept out and washed out between each seasons cutting. a smooth floor is easier to keep clean. treat the concrete the da its poured with cure hard. it will keep the top from being full of cement dust all the time. i'd still prefer to stack on shipping pallets because concrete will sweat. you can help avoid this by using insulation board under the outside edges of the concrete. cut the board in half and put it down and pour the concrete on top of it. this will insulate the concrete from the outside ground temperature.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Ron-Mo

01-22-2008 08:27:31




Report to Moderator
 Re: Pole barn - Concrete Floor - Can I do myself?? in reply to Joe in IN, 01-22-2008 06:56:54  
I found out the hard way a few years ago not to try by myself. I got lucky and had a friend who had experience and he and I had our hands full. Mostly because I was inexperienced. This is hard work, and you only have a short time to finish it. I had a 30x40 split in half to a 15x40. On the second one my friend had to work, and the truck was coming, so I had my dad come to help. That made two inexperiences hands which nearly spelled disaster, but luckily the friend made it to help finish the job, but it still had some bad spots in the finish. When I moved and was building a new shop I hired the concrete done. Yes, it cost a few $$ more, but I had $2000 in the job, and the concrete alone would have ran over half of that cost, but these guys knew what they were doing, and poured it in one piece then sawed it into 4 sections (crack control). This one has not cracked anywhere so far. It is a 4 inch pad, and I had them put plastic sheeting down for a vapor barrier, and used the wire mesh for reinforcement. I am very happy with how it turned out, and will hold anything short of a dozer or loaded trucks (which will not fit in the door anyway). Up to you, but if you are not going to have heavy equipment on it you will not need the heavy re-bar. My house has re-bar and has several cracks in it. My shop has no re-bar and only the weled wire and has no cracks. I believe a lot of that has to do with the mix, settling, and temperature of when it is poured.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
jonjon

01-22-2008 08:14:08




Report to Moderator
 Re: Pole barn - Concrete Floor - Can I do myself?? in reply to Joe in IN, 01-22-2008 06:56:54  
Just built a 40 x 60. Used keylock insert for form and expansion joint worked great, local lumber store had it.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
BCnT

01-22-2008 07:45:01




Report to Moderator
 Re: Pole barn - Concrete Floor - Can I do myself?? in reply to Joe in IN, 01-22-2008 06:56:54  
dont try and do it alone...concrete wont wait if you get tired and need a break.
lil trick i use for a smoother surface is fill a water hose and plug the ends...then slide hose back and forth and work it down slab...gives a nice finish.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
JMS/.MN

01-22-2008 07:34:16




Report to Moderator
 Re: Pole barn - Concrete Floor - Can I do myself?? in reply to Joe in IN, 01-22-2008 06:56:54  
I would split it differently- do a 9 by 36 each time- could still do two per weekend if the hauling schedule works out. Like one am, other pm. Easier to float across 9 feet than 18. I"d rather use wire or rod here, than the fiber mesh. Mesh doesn"t hold concrete together like wire, in this area. For a form I"d use 2 inch- fewer support stakes, but 1 inch can work. I"d just move the form for each strip- and use a fiber board material or styrofoam for expansion joint. Wood is not going to flex in the joint. Pull the first form, set the fiber board, reset the form. Float finish is certainly fine for a hay shed floor. Might also consider a vapor barrier.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Dick Lemmon

01-22-2008 07:27:58




Report to Moderator
 Re: Pole barn - Concrete Floor - Can I do myself?? in reply to Joe in IN, 01-22-2008 06:56:54  
I have always poured that size all at once. Most Concrete places will loan a 4 foot bull float. I cut 3/8" rerod into 2 foot long pieces and set them every 4 to 5 feet apart every direction over the total area. Stretch a line or set with a transit all rerod tops to the floor hight. Bull float to the top of the pins. Step in with your foot and bend the pins down as you pour after your sure you have floated level. Works smoother with a front unload cement truck and a good driver so the driver can not over fill or under fill. So much easier than trying to skreet.
That size I have poured with just one other helper with a front unload cement truck. With a rear dump I would want two helpers.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Ken Crisman

01-22-2008 07:27:17




Report to Moderator
 Re: Pole barn - Concrete Floor - Can I do myself?? in reply to Joe in IN, 01-22-2008 06:56:54  
Sure ya can . Just get a few friends in & have a nice meal afterwards . But also have the wife ready with Ben-Gay afterwards . Be sure to give it some slope or water will just lay in low spots . Have fun . God bless, ken



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy