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Implement Alley Discussion Forum

Treated lumber and cattle

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WCS

01-21-2008 05:00:01




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Can green treated lumber make cattle sick if they lick or eat off a bunk/feed wagon made of the treated lumber that can be bought at lumber yards? I want to feed some ear corn with some shelled corn to pregnant stock cows.Thanks for any replies.




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bellyacre

01-21-2008 19:14:33




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 Re: Treated lumber and cattle in reply to WCS, 01-21-2008 05:00:01  
It won't make them sick but you will be when you realize they just ate your brand new high priced bunk. go with steel or concrete



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paul

01-21-2008 15:36:50




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 Re: Treated lumber and cattle in reply to WCS, 01-21-2008 05:00:01  
The old or new treatment won't hurt them in the quantity they would get. At all. Toss in whole apples & they get arsnic from the seeds, for goodness sakes.....

However, if you someday think of going organic, or you wish to run a dairy, there are some rules forbidding it. Some people got a little over ambusious on the Green Team, and made some rules. There are a lot worst things that should be regulated & are not, but - it's the world we live in.

If a cow chews on that bunk every day she would pick up a tiny tiny bit of the treatment, and she passes on a tiny bit in her milk; and that milk is concentrated down into butter; and if you eat 100 lbs of butter a day that treated wood will likely show up in your blood stream in some billionths per.

Things do get concentrated down on butter & cheese - so it's good people are watching too - don't want to be against all regulations either. ;)

--->Paul

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ClemBert

01-21-2008 12:33:38




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 Re: Treated lumber and cattle in reply to WCS, 01-21-2008 05:00:01  
I don"t know about cows but I"ve seen horses eat and eat and eat pressure treated lumber...both the old formula and the current new formula. Neither has ever killed a horse...but you"d think it would with all the warning labels you see...and I"m talking about a horse eating most of a 1x6x16 pressure treat board.



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Pooh Bear

01-21-2008 12:07:48




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 Re: Treated lumber and cattle in reply to WCS, 01-21-2008 05:00:01  
The old stuff was treated with CCA - Copper Chromate Arsenic.

The new stuff is treated with ACQ - Alkaline Copper Quatenary.

Or in some cases with MCQ - Micro Alkaline Copper Quatenary.

With CCA the arsenic killed bugs and the copper chromate prevented wood decay.

With the new stuff the alkaline properties kill bugs and the copper quatenary

acts as a wood preservative to prevent decay. MCQ is almost the same

as ACQ but the copper quatenary molecule is much smaller allowing it

to penetrate into more of the wood fibers. Stops decay even better.

Pooh Bear (aka Fluff For Brains)

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georgeky

01-21-2008 11:24:34




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 Re: Treated lumber and cattle in reply to WCS, 01-21-2008 05:00:01  
No it won't hurt them. If it does a cow won't live long enough for it to show up. I have sawed lots of old treated lumber, and ain't hurt me yet that I know of. Never ate any though.



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JMS/.MN

01-21-2008 11:20:27




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 Re: Treated lumber and cattle in reply to WCS, 01-21-2008 05:00:01  
We"ve used treated lumber for years in the first 3-4 feet in pole sheds. Bunks as well. If the cattle are eating wood rails, fences, etc., it is a sign of phosphorus deficiency in their diets. Or eating dirt-Add phos.



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rrlund

01-21-2008 08:26:00




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 Re: Treated lumber and cattle in reply to WCS, 01-21-2008 05:00:01  
I think the green stuff's OK. Anybody over 40 here in Michigan probably remembers the problems here with the old stuff right after the whole PBB poisoned feed thing back in the 70s. Cows were getting sick and dying and they blamed the treated wood. I could give you the name and take you to the farm where the biggest problem with it happened.



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Billy NY

01-21-2008 07:27:42




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 Re: Treated lumber and cattle in reply to WCS, 01-21-2008 05:00:01  
The older materials were made with .40 or .60 percent saturated CCA copper chromated arsenate. I'm not up tp date on current wood preservatives, but would be inclined to believe any pressure treated wood materials that have a ground contact rating, would have the most volatile preservative available today.

I spent 4 years working as a truck driver over 20 years ago delivering the older type of materials, and have picked up freshly treated materials directly from the plant. One thing I did notice was that some of the materials would have a heavy crystallized residue on the ends or in the small defects, open voids etc. inherent to any kind of lumber. Some of the individual pieces of lumber had heavy concentrations of this visible, a blue'ish green solid substance that could be scraped off. I'd imagine that this substance was highly toxic. I also believed in keeping the material wet, and or fabricating while still saturated from the plant to avoid the airborne dust and to prevent warpage until after the material was used for constructing whatever it was to be built because when individual pieces were left in the open, especially the summer months, it would quickly become a banana shaped, twisted or otherwise completely warped.

Most of the pressure treated lumber I remember hauling was of the southern yellow pine species, kiln dried first, then pressure treated .40 CCA blue tag or in some instances .60 CCA red tag, last I recall seeing the latter and more heavily saturated was 12" x 12" timbers in the mid to late 80's.

That said, it is hard to predict what surface residue may be left on the lumber, I would think more so when fresh from the plant and still in the bundle. Even with the new material, there would have to have been some kind of analysis done to determine residual surface content of the preservative used, I would suggest getting a Material Safety Data Sheet for the materials you are concerned about. You would think that with age and weathering the surface content of left over residue from the treatment process would be minimal, very hard to make that call and know that to be true, maybe the msds sheets will have some information about this.

The treatment process was something I had never seen as I remember back then, there is a huge pressure vessel in the plant and the unitized bundles were placed inside them to be treated by use of pressurization.

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TWJanak

01-21-2008 06:17:10




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 Re: Treated lumber and cattle in reply to WCS, 01-21-2008 05:00:01  
No, they took the aresenic out a while back. Problem is the lumber costs more and is worse for you than when it had the aresenic.



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johns48jdb

01-21-2008 05:21:38




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 Re: Treated lumber and cattle in reply to WCS, 01-21-2008 05:00:01  
yes i would think so. the tag on each piece says to use a respirator when just sawing this lumber. you'd be better off with a steel plate or even just cut some plastic barrels up and feed out of them. i think that they use arsenic in treating that lumber.



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