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Implement Alley Discussion Forum

Flat belt length

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mark

12-13-2007 12:34:33




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Fellers,

I need a flat belt to run my hammer mill with my Super A. What is the recommended length of the belt...is there a minimum length? What is the ideal width to use? The pulley on the mill is about 6" wide. I have always seen the tractor set quite a distance from the driven machine...but don't know if there is a reason for this....or they just had a long belt. Can you point me in the right direction? Thanks.

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J.C.in AZ.

12-16-2007 19:43:59




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 Re: Flat belt length in reply to mark, 12-13-2007 12:34:33  
Back in the 50's-60's and 70's when I tried Farming I went to a lot of Farm Sales where they had stuff that had been on the Farm since Threshing and Hammer Mill work first started and seems most of them were 6"or 8" wide and 50' long and once in a while a 75' one would come along. We used to talk about all the stuff for sale when we were not interested in the current Auction item. I once asked an old timer why some one would need a 75' [150' end to end]belt and he claimed that 75' worked best with a Steam Engine when it powered a Thresher. Some Steam Engines had 3-4' in dia. Flywheels. The Flywheels on the Steam Engine and the Thresher were usually about 3' at the bottom off the ground. The operators would give the Belt a twist and tighten it up but as use and the day temperature climbed the Belt tended to stretch so being off the ground several feet it could be used with out shutting down to tighten the Belt. The additional weight of the extra 25'[actually 50'] of Belt gave good belt contact. The operators always had a Stick of Belt Dressing that they used constantly so most Belts always had a sticky feeling when you handled them. I had a Belt driven Burr mill and used a 6" x 50' Belt to apply power to it which probably was 70 years old but got the job done.

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mark

12-17-2007 04:45:21




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 Re: Flat belt length in reply to J.C.in AZ., 12-16-2007 19:43:59  
JC,

You have told me more in 2 minutes than I have heard in my brief 50 years of living:)! Now...they also put in twist to reverse direction didn't they?

I watched a sawmill being ran with an old Case steamer a few years ago in Brown County Ohio. They had this belt that had to be 75' long and for the life of me, I couldn't really understand..but now I do, thanks to your explanation.

As for that sawmill: I have no idea what the rated HP for that old steam tractor/engine was....it wasn't a big one..just average sized. They had some dandy logs going through the saw....close to 30" in diameter....I also got to watch a team of oxen drag them around like toothpicks. Anyway....I have watched diesel and electric sawmills operate and heard the pitch of the saw change when it hit wood. Hehehe....when that steam powered saw hit wood...it never seemed to slow a bit! I am sure of course, that it did...some, but I couldn't tell it. There is so much power in steam!

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55 50

12-13-2007 21:02:47




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 Re: Flat belt length in reply to mark, 12-13-2007 12:34:33  
One other thing concerning belt length. The longer the belt (within reason) the less critical it is to get it "lined up" pulley-edge to pulley-edge as mentioned by agpilot.

Brings to mind a show I go to some summers where there is usually a belt driven dyno that anyone can belt their tractor to. I once watched a young feller pull up with a newly restored and painted tractor and first attempt at belt alignment was way off. Some in the crowd watching hollered "It"s not lined up" but this guy "knew it all" and threw the pulley in gear and watched in horror as the belt put several deep gashes in his new paint, then proceeded to chew out the dyno owner as folks said it"s not the dyno operator"s fault.

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Hugh MacKay

12-13-2007 17:35:06




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 Re: Flat belt length in reply to mark, 12-13-2007 12:34:33  
Mark: Bob and Roger both make good points, however there is a 3rd good reason for a long belt. Flat belts have a traction factor on the pullies, slippage creates heat, heat in turn makes slippage worse. The longer belt will have less heat build up, thus less slippage.



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Roger in Iowa

12-13-2007 13:28:04




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 Re: Flat belt length in reply to mark, 12-13-2007 12:34:33  
Longer belt also keeps the tractor (air cleaner) further away from the dust.

Roger in Iowa



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Bob

12-13-2007 13:00:47




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 Re: Flat belt length in reply to mark, 12-13-2007 12:34:33  
The longer the belt, the better. The "sag" of the belt, from it's own weight, between the pulleys, keeps it tight.



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mark

12-13-2007 18:26:00




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 Re: Flat belt length in reply to Bob, 12-13-2007 13:00:47  
Thank you very much for the answers thus far. Now, allow me to ask..... .what length would you recommend....15, 20, 30 feet? What thickness should the belt be? I had had conveyor type belting recommended to me...easier to get than leather, cheaper too. A 4" width has been mentioned to me by others...but how thick does it need to be..1/8", 3/16", 1/4"???

Finally, this is going to be a very ocassional use with a small 8" hammer mill..like demonstrations. Obviously, I want it to work well, but it isn't like I am going to be grinding feed on a regular basis with it.

Merry Christ-mas everybody.

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agpilot

12-13-2007 19:38:11




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 Re: Flat belt length in reply to mark, 12-13-2007 18:26:00  
Hello Mark: I don't have any engineering data to proven suggestions but... I'll pass on what I learned about belts in the early 50's toward your needs. The 4 inch belt on an 8 inch pully seems a bit narrow. The larger diameter of pullies in their center and a wide enough belt work together to provide a self centering action. I'd guess 5 inch belt on your 8 inch pully would give better self centering action. ( again no engineering proof) I'd also guess 15 foot between pullies would be enuff if there is limited room at your demo site. Thickness relates to the diameter of the pullies. Thinner belts follow a smaller pulley better then a thick belt and heat less. (Belt dressing is a good thing to use) The last item takes lots of explaining. Alignment of tractor pully to the hammermill pully... When the line of sight along the outside edges of both pullies are dead on together, you are in great shape. Note:Just like the pullies on your car/pickup fan and power steering pullies etc all line up. No pullies are "cocked" off at an angle to the other pulley. This leads to lots of frustrated tractor drivers now-a-days trying to line up a belt operation. Get close and then shut your tractor off and get off and sight along the outside edge of both pullies to see how they line up. You'll know how when you can get both pully outside edges on the same line of sight from the driver seat. I hope this general info helps. ag

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mark

12-13-2007 20:03:23




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 Re: Flat belt length in reply to agpilot, 12-13-2007 19:38:11  
agpilot,

That's very good useful information. You see, I was fortunate enough to escape those halcyon days of flat belts...LOL! However, now that I want to use one, I have no knowledge base to rely on. When I was a small kid, they sold the old JD hammer mill off the farm and I never got to operate it...lucky me! This ward's hammer mill is a small one, won't take much to run it and it will get little use..just a toy. Thanks for responding.

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agpilot

12-14-2007 06:13:06




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 Re: Flat belt length in reply to mark, 12-13-2007 20:03:23  
Hello Mark: I enjoy seeing any type belt demos at tractor shows. Hope you have a good time too. My job for many years was grinding all the feed for our farm. We had a large enuff mill to be a load for out Farmall Super MD. (about 45 belt HP) Under full load one can see the self centering action of the belt on the non-flat pully face. I forgot to mention using a 2X4 stud held against the outside edges of BOTH pullies as a "sighting gauge" to check alignment. That's somewhat similar to alignment method used on car/pickup engine belts. Gotta have all pullies pointed in same direction for a straight running belt. Be safe. Don't get any kids near a running belt. Enjoy. ag

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mark

12-14-2007 13:10:15




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 Re: Flat belt length in reply to agpilot, 12-14-2007 06:13:06  
agpilot,

Something I enjoy seeing is a Pawnee making low passes over the fields and then dodging the electric wires....gives me the willies...don't know what it did for you....LOL! I was down in Georgia one time and watched a guy (air)spray a field....I thought that dude needs to go to Oshkosh and put on a show!



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Roger in Iowa

12-14-2007 01:15:49




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 Re: Flat belt length in reply to mark, 12-13-2007 20:03:23  
Since you do not want to spend much money, perhaps a well used 5" belt from a JD round baler would work. Farmers have to replace them when the diamond tread gets worn off, but should be very useable for your needs. Might give you one. Check with a JD or other dealer. He might have an old used belt.

Roger in Iowa



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