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Implement Alley Discussion Forum

New Idea 5409 info needed

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Lew Best

07-26-2007 15:15:20

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Hey guys

Had a coupla disc hay cutters follow me home yesterday; one working, one not.

The non-working one is a New Idea 5409; the last disc (end away from the mount & pto) doesn't work; spins VERY freely by hand.

Looks like the long bolt on the bar under the disc holds the bar sections together (see pic or if it don't come thru go to the link below). I've never tried posting pix before here.

Can I try taking this apart by removing this long bolt without things "falling apart" inside or are there precautions I need to take to dissassemble it? Any tips, etc. (including a source for used parts) appreciated.

The other cutter is a Vicon (model unknown as I haven't found a plate on it) It is sposta work but the New Idea has a lonher cutter bar so I'd like to get it going & use it.

Thanks!

Lew Best near Waco, TX

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Lew Best

07-26-2007 15:17:12

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Re: New Idea 5409 info needed in reply to Lew Best, 07-26-2007 15:15:20

well, the pic don't show up on my cptr; link to it is>Link

Lew>Link

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KEH

07-27-2007 10:34:21

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Re: New Idea 5409 info needed in reply to Lew Best, 07-26-2007 15:17:12

Lew,
I'm assuming your Vicon is a 3ph hitch mower with 6 cutterheads, cutting width 7 ft. 10 in. The older version is a model 247. It has the frame made from round steel. The cutterbar is housed in 2 pieces of pressed steel and you have to split it to make any repairs.
The later and current version is model 2400. Very early versions had the round frame, but most had the frame made from rectangular steel. The round frame ones had gearbox trouble. The cutterbar is much improved and the cutterheads may be removed indivually to replace bearings, but the cutterbar has to be split to replace gears. The gearbox looks the same on both the CM 247 and the CM 2400 but they are not.

KEH

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Lew Best

07-27-2007 10:48:03

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Re: New Idea 5409 info needed in reply to KEH, 07-27-2007 10:34:21

Thanks!

The Vicon works ok (now at least); just the New Idea needs "fixing." The Vicon has a round framework that forms the 3pt mount but the piece that holds the gearbox & pulleys is square? Any ideas where the numbers might be located?

Thanks

Lew

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KEH

07-27-2007 15:25:50

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Re: New Idea 5409 info needed in reply to Lew Best, 07-27-2007 10:48:03

On the square piece that you referred to as holding the gearbox there are 2 flat pieces of steel welded to the square piece as reinforcements. On the 2400 the serial number plate is riveted to the top piece, directly under the end of the big spring. It's somewhere in the same area on a 247. Another difference between the 2 models is in the breakaway device. On the 247 there is a special small bolt that breaks when the blade hits an obstruction and sometimes when it dosen't. It is located close to where the right 3ph hitch arm attaches to the mower. On the 2400 there is a spring loaded trip mechanism located in the same place.

Reccommend you drain the gearbox and cutterbar and refill with new 80-90 gear oil. Don't overfill the cutterbar, it will blow seals. On the 247 I was told to set the cutterbar upright and let it set overnight, then unscrew the filler plug on the top of the cutterbarand fill to the hole. On the 2400 I was told to set the end of the cutterbar on something 15 inches high, then take out the filler plug and check the level.
Those 3 blade cutterheads mow great, don't they?

KEH

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Lew Best

07-27-2007 18:31:55

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Re: New Idea 5409 info needed in reply to KEH, 07-27-2007 15:25:50

Thanks!

It is a 247. Couldn't find numbers but the breakaway is as you described. Looks to just have a regular bolt in it; would I be better off getting cat 5 or 8? Plan to go to TSC & get some to have on hand before using it.

I have some 90-140 lube & some straight 140 (I think; might be straight 90 wt); which would be better or should I pick up a bucket of 80-90?

Thanks again!

Lew

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Lew Best

07-28-2007 16:19:56

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Re: New Idea 5409 info needed in reply to Lew Best, 07-27-2007 18:31:55

thanks murn ga & KEH

I dug out the buckets of grease & one is 80-90 :)

Found an allen head screw on the edge of the bar; iirc just above the second disc (bar standing up); I'm guessing this is the fill plug? Is there a separate drain plug or do you just let the bar down level to drain it thru that hole?

Lew

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KEH

07-28-2007 16:37:25

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Re: New Idea 5409 info needed in reply to Lew Best, 07-28-2007 16:19:56

That's the filler plug. Drain plug should be at end of cutterbar. Never drained mine because it had a leaking seal and leaked where the 2 pieces of steel that form the cuttterbar so it changed its own oil. Let bar sit upright several hours after draining and fill to filler plug. Don't overfill. Gearbox obviously drains out of filler plug when bar is upright.
Check tightness of bolts that hold cutterbar to gearbox, this is a weak point. Check tightness of bolts in gearbox.

KEH

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murn ga

07-28-2007 16:46:27

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Re: New Idea 5409 info needed in reply to KEH, 07-28-2007 16:37:25

KEH, this is a mistake a lot of farmers make,the gearbox is a sealed unit. To check the gearbox,lay the bar down, you should have a top fill plug and about half way down a check plug. At least this is the way it is on ever Vicon that I have sold parts for.

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murn ga

07-28-2007 16:52:17

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Re: New Idea 5409 info needed in reply to murn ga, 07-28-2007 16:46:27

KEH,sorry,I misread your post, I'm sure you new the gear box was seperate.

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KEH

07-28-2007 19:07:47

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Re: New Idea 5409 info needed in reply to murn ga, 07-28-2007 16:52:17

Murn,
I may not have been too clear in my post. I assumed Lew know that the gearbox oil and the cutterbar oil are separate. However, this brings up another problem I have had. If the bottom seal in the gearbox goes bad, the oil will leak down into the cutterbar, overfilling it and leaving the gearbox dry. If the oil stays up or overfills in the cutterbar while the gearbox oil drops, this most likely what is happening. I guess what I'm saying is to check for the source of leaks. Where in GA are you? I've been through a lot of GA going to the Moultrie Expo?

KEH

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Lew Best

07-28-2007 16:52:10

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Re: New Idea 5409 info needed in reply to murn ga, 07-28-2007 16:46:27

Thanks guys; I'll look again.

Lew

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murn ga

07-28-2007 15:42:12

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Re: New Idea 5409 info needed in reply to Lew Best, 07-27-2007 18:31:55

Lew, the most important thing I have found on these mowers is to use a GL5 grade 80w90 so it does not build up pressure and start leaking. Don't forget the gear box.

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KEH

07-28-2007 15:35:07

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Re: New Idea 5409 info needed in reply to Lew Best, 07-27-2007 18:31:55

Lew,

On an old worn mower the 80-140 should be ok. Don't know about grade of bolt, I always got them from dealer
and changed them fairly often before they broke. I would put 2 nuts on them and check for tightness occasionally. If they were slightly I figured the bolt was stretching and replaced it. I would guess grade 5 would be ok.

KEH

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murn ga

07-26-2007 16:26:11

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Re: New Idea 5409 info needed in reply to Lew Best, 07-26-2007 15:17:12

That New Idea looks like it has seen a few rocky hay feilds. Each module is sealed and driven with one long shaft so you can unbolt all those cutter units,when assembling just keep in time. I would suspect a broken shaft or a striped gear.

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cannonball

07-27-2007 05:19:15

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Re: New Idea 5409 info needed in reply to murn ga, 07-26-2007 16:26:11

the 5409 had both shafts..one the whole length and one going from one segment to the other..the 1997 we had was 7 shafts...i put a single shaft in, the 7 shaft would wear on each end and by the time you got to the end cutter head it would be way off.. you need to pull head off and check gears...

MAY GOD BLESS THE USA

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Lew Best

07-26-2007 16:31:24

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Re: New Idea 5409 info needed in reply to murn ga, 07-26-2007 16:26:11

Thanks!

That's what I figured but didn't want any surprises (been there done that before going blindly into something)!

Lew

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TxFarmer84

07-26-2007 18:33:54

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Re: New Idea 5409 info needed in reply to Lew Best, 07-26-2007 16:31:24

Like it was mentioned eariler the gears are probably stripped. You will get both gears if you order from a dealer, they are not available seperate. The bearings are nothing special any bearing house can get them. Kyle

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Lew Best

07-26-2007 18:41:33

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Re: New Idea 5409 info needed in reply to TxFarmer84, 07-26-2007 18:33:54

Thanks Kyle

There's a dealer in Temple & Hillsboro (funny Agco don't list Tipton Interntional in Waco but only the branch in Hillsboro. I'll call them here first once I get it apart (if it ever stops raining!).

Lew

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