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Implement Alley Discussion Forum

hp needed for baler operation

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Blackberry Hill

04-11-2007 09:45:25




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I have a John Deere Model 850 tractor which delivers approximately 23 hp to the PTO. Will I experience problems related to power requirements when using a John Deere Model 336 square baler? I keep hearing that larger tractors (35hp and greater) are needed for square baler operation. Thanks for your help here.




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hay master

04-17-2007 07:18:46




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 Re: hp needed for baler operation in reply to Blackberry Hill, 04-11-2007 09:45:25  
As the others have stated, you will need more horsepower. I run a NH 315 square baler and pull a 16' wagon with 2 farmhands and use a JD 4020 diesel. I believe the HP on the 4020 is 95. I have one hay field that is flat and one has moderate slope. The 4020 has no issues in either field. It's probably an overkill for HP and I run that baler at a little slower RPM that way I don't tear it up. I was always told by equipment dealers that you should have a minimum of 50 HP to run modern balers. Now antique balers are a different story. Good luck baling and pray for no breakdowns.

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LE Smith (W/ Central MI)

04-12-2007 09:25:53




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 Re: hp needed for baler operation in reply to Blackberry Hill, 04-11-2007 09:45:25  
Years back when I was just starting to help my neighbor bale hay, he used an Allis CA and a JD 14T with a wagon in tow. Seems like baling was mostly in 1st gear and there were issues when it came to the hills and valleys. Glad I do not bale that way today!!!!



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MLD

04-12-2007 06:55:01




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 Re: hp needed for baler operation in reply to Blackberry Hill, 04-11-2007 09:45:25  
I'm not sure the size of the 336, but would say that the 850 should run a small square baler on level ground. Those big flywheels keep alot on momentum but if it ever gets blugged that little tractor might have a problem starting it back up. I would suggest finding a larger tractor, try it this spring & see how it goes.



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vally farm

04-11-2007 20:31:25




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 Re: hp needed for baler operation in reply to Blackberry Hill, 04-11-2007 09:45:25  
I pull a NH273 with kicker and 16' wagons with a Farmall Super H. Up the bigger hills...30* at most I am in 1st gear with the wagon over 1/2 full, otherwise I'm in 2nd gear. This was 30 hp when new, and am still waiting to do the first rebuild. Just remember TORQUE has a lot more to do with tractors. High rpm will give less torque. Father's Oliver 550 can't hold up to bailing. The Sup H will smoke the 550 pulling a haybine too. 550 is around 45 HP. Mike

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johns48jdb

04-11-2007 18:37:26




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 Re: hp needed for baler operation in reply to Blackberry Hill, 04-11-2007 09:45:25  
i use to bale for the public. from what i can see here i guess the main thing that needs to be asked is how much bailing are you going to do and how fast do you want to do it. in thin hay and small wind rows i guess you could make a case for a cub to bale hay with, even thought the pto turns the wrong way.



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Blackberry Hill

04-11-2007 19:00:44




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 Re: hp needed for baler operation in reply to johns48jdb, 04-11-2007 18:37:26  
Approximately 10-12 acres of pasture with hopefully 3 cuttings per year. Last fall (August) was my first cutting after acquiring the pasture and we put up about 310 bales. So, we may be talking 800-1000 bales per year. Speed is not that important and the pastures are relatively flat.



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Loren in MN

04-11-2007 20:49:20




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 Re: hp needed for baler operation in reply to Blackberry Hill, 04-11-2007 19:00:44  
Also, you won't get three times the amount of hay as your first crop. Plan on about 1/3 in your second crop and maybe less in the third crop. You may get 500 total.



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Blackberry Hill

04-12-2007 03:59:33




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 Re: hp needed for baler operation in reply to Loren in MN, 04-11-2007 20:49:20  
Loren... thanks for the reply. That August cutting that I was referring to was probably the third cutting of the season. The pasture had been cut twice already by the previous owner for cow hay (round baled). So, do you think we will still be down around 500 bales or closer to 800-1000?



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Loren in MN

04-11-2007 20:44:50




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 Re: hp needed for baler operation in reply to Blackberry Hill, 04-11-2007 19:00:44  
I have used a Super-C to run a NH baler. It worked, but was very hard on the tractor. If you don't have live power, be sure (when possible) to let the baler empty the chamber before stopping to make adjustments. I also have doubts about the horsepower ratings of newer vs. older tractors. -I could be wrong on this. I think your setup should work but I'd use a bigger tractor for baling. I have a D-17 for baling and I haven't found anything better. I've used several Farmall's -400, 460, 560, 706, and 756 and none have been as nice for baling as the Allis. (I collect Farmalls and Molines) One of the more common yet the most uncomfortable to bale with is the old workhorse -the Allis WD45. -Just my opinion.

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georgeky

04-11-2007 21:33:38




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 Re: hp needed for baler operation in reply to Loren in MN, 04-11-2007 20:44:50  
Loren, I agree about that Allis. We baled hay when I was a kid with a D-15 and that hand clutch is the trick for running a square baler. Wish I had it back.



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paul

04-11-2007 20:30:50




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 Re: hp needed for baler operation in reply to Blackberry Hill, 04-11-2007 19:00:44  
You will be underpowered, but you can get by if you have to. I hope it has a live pto (not familiar with JD), or it could be a miserable experience, but you can get bales made.

The baler will take 15-18 hp. Does not leave much to move the tractor & baler. Nothing to pull a wagon behind.

--->Paul



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georgeky

04-11-2007 17:56:24




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 Re: hp needed for baler operation in reply to Blackberry Hill, 04-11-2007 09:45:25  
I have baled thousands of bales with a 23 HP Super C I have pulled several different balers with it. 430 IH, 530 Ford,Super68 NH,276 NH. I think your tractor will be fine.



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TMay

04-11-2007 16:57:28




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 Re: hp needed for baler operation in reply to Blackberry Hill, 04-11-2007 09:45:25  
I have a 135 massey which is about38 hp and a 1020 jd which is about 40 hp. They both handle my 273 NH square baler anywhere but I won't put a wagon behind them on the hilly ground.



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Larry NE IL

04-11-2007 16:28:07




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 Re: hp needed for baler operation in reply to Blackberry Hill, 04-11-2007 09:45:25  
I've got a JD 950 with a loader. There is no way your going to pull AND run that 336 baler. As a matter of fact, lots of them tractors were sold without live power (2 position clutch) and without that it's a real pain to do any pto work.

As the others said; move up to more HP or borrow/rent somthing.



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johns48jdb

04-11-2007 14:55:18




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 Re: hp needed for baler operation in reply to Blackberry Hill, 04-11-2007 09:45:25  
i had a 36 hp ih 364 diesel and it was all the tractor could do to handle a square bailer. my 574 54 hp was ok but i've seen times when it would grunt on a clump of hay. i don't think the drive train will hold up long on that small of a tractor. use it to rake with and trade some tractor time out with somebody to use their bigger tractor to do the bailing and you rake for him. better chance of getting your hay up any way before it snows, i mean rains, if it ever warms up around here this year.

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FreeRanger

04-11-2007 13:29:42




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 Re: hp needed for baler operation in reply to Blackberry Hill, 04-11-2007 09:45:25  
I know nothing about JD 850 or a JD 336, but I think any 23HP tractor will have problems pulling a hay baler and a flat rack with or with haybales on a hill. Just not enough physical weight in the tractor even with wheel weights. My 1955 Ford 600 [34HP liquid filled tires and big wheel weights] can (barely) pull and operate a NH 66 baler with wagon on flat and gentle slopes but fully loaded hay wagon just pushes my tractor down the hill in steep areas.

If you keep hearing 35HP and greater, I here to tell you get 50HP or greater. I sure wish I did.

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old

04-11-2007 09:52:52




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 Re: hp needed for baler operation in reply to Blackberry Hill, 04-11-2007 09:45:25  
Well if you have flat ground and a live PTO it might, if your lucky pull it ok. May self I found my ford 841 was worked hard pulling a JD-14T because it didn't have live PTO but my Oliver 77 did well but it has live PTO. What was real funny is the ford is rated at 45HP and the Oliver is 38HP

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Mike (WA)

04-13-2007 12:33:05




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 Re: hp needed for baler operation in reply to old, 04-11-2007 09:52:52  
You really need more horses. You might be able to operate that lash-up for awhile, but you'll end up tearing up the tractor, with more repair cost than an old workhorse tractor would have been. A good AC D15 or Oliver 77 or 88 can be had for about 2 grand, and are excellent for baling.



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