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Implement Alley Discussion Forum

How much can you guys pull?

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Don-Wi

03-25-2007 20:09:48




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We've always been looking to upgrade our tillage equipment after getting our 1855 and just kinda wondering whats the most you guys pull with 105HP? I saw an IH feild cultivator that has much more clearance under it than our 18' springtooth to let more trash flow through instead of plugging with corn stalks. NOt sure how big it is, guessing it's a good 20-24', and it has 3 rows of leveling teeth on the back to leave a good finish. The springtooth does a good job, but in chiseled corn feilds the stalks are a major problem.

We can pull the spring tooth in 4th gear easy on the 1855. Before we got the 18 we pulled it with our Massey 285 in 3rd low. I'm guessing a bigger cultivator like this one would be a 3rd gear pull with the 18, but that wouldn't be a problem.

Donovan from Wisconsin

Another problem with our 18' spring tooth, is that the teeth are getting extremely hard to find. They're the type that mount onto a pipe like on the really old IH spring tooth sections. I just bought 15 from Nebraska Cowman last month, and the machine is missing, I think, 9 at this time.

It's not made to be used as the primary tillage after the plow, but for now it's the only thing that's big enough to give the 1855 a remotely noticable load. We used a 12 or 15' glencoe before the S-T, and we still use it for spots that get drowned out or small strips.

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Hugh Mackay

03-27-2007 02:59:00




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 Re: How much can you guys pull? in reply to Don-Wi, 03-25-2007 20:09:48  
Don: Buy a cultivator with S tines, they are tough, shanks are very reasonable to replace, they do a good job and under most conditions they are going to require 1.5 hp per shank.

I pull 17 shanks with my Farmall 140, Gary pulls I'm guessing around 120 shanks on that 180 hp tractor. As I see it very little difference, Gary claims his tractor is loaded, I can tell you mine is loaded as well. You do the math, we're both damn close to 1.5 hp per shank.

Stay away from those older cultivators with hinged shanks. The shanks don't stand up as well as S tines and they are about 5 times more expensive to buy shanks for. That factor alone makes those old cultivators little more than scrap metal.

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IaGary

03-26-2007 18:05:51




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 Re: How much can you guys pull? in reply to Don-Wi, 03-25-2007 20:09:48  
third party image

If you use straight shovels you will not knock all the weeds out.

Shovels should be 2 inches wider than the spaces to ensure good coverage of the weeds.

Now if your following right behind the disc then weeds aren't an issue.

But I go right into bean stubble 6" deep, one pass with the field cultivator and plant.

Disc cornstalks once early then go over once just before planting.

This is a 30 footer with harrow and its a load for 180HP at 7 MPH

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JMS/MN

03-26-2007 09:02:03




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 Re: How much can you guys pull? in reply to Don-Wi, 03-25-2007 20:09:48  
Another consideration is what type of teeth are on the cultivator. 20 foot machine will have about 40 teeth, and it takes more power/traction to pull 6-8 inch sweeps compared to 2 inch quack tooth or 4 inch duckfoot. Six inch sweep will till every square inch of area. Compare front rank to rear rank spacing as well as ground clearance. Newer machines have greater distance to let residue flow through easier. You can add/subtract a shank or two on each side of recent machines to tailor the width. With that hp in two wheel drive, about twenty feet might be a good match., depending how it's equipped, along with field conditions.

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Don-Wi

03-26-2007 09:48:01




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 Re: How much can you guys pull? in reply to JMS/MN, 03-26-2007 09:02:03  
I think it had swweps on it, but we pull just striahgt points on most of our stuff at home. Putting on regular points wouldn"t be too bog of a deal, maybe leave the sweeps up front for a little more roughing action, don"t know.

Our 18 has duals on for most tillage, and has fluid in the rear as well as a rops/conopy over the rear tires, and the front has 4 slabs (was tols 105lbs each) and the starter plus 1 stack so there"s a good amount of weight on it to put the power to the ground.

Donovan from Wisconsin

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JMS/MN

03-26-2007 23:02:56




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 Re: How much can you guys pull? in reply to Don-Wi, 03-26-2007 09:48:01  
Straight points are ... how wide? Regular? points-- what size are 'regular'? Sweeps (what width) up front? ...All points on the machine should be the same width, whatever you run. You need the same coverage/tillage across the whole width of the tiller. Simply makes no sense to mix shovels. Front weights mean little in regard to traction unless the field cultivator is mounted.



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Don-Wi

03-26-2007 23:23:26




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 Re: How much can you guys pull? in reply to JMS/MN, 03-26-2007 23:02:56  
A straight point, to me, is just as wide as the shank, maybe a little more, so I'd say 2". No idea how wide the sweeps were that were on the machine.

I'll have to call again on Wed. and see if it's still there- sales guy said he was just talking to a guy this morning about it.... Don't know if he was being honest or not, but I may try to go out there on Thursday before I have to go to work and look it over some more. May be worth it, may not.

Donovan from Wisconsin

I should add, there are several farmers in the area that mix-n-match swweps and points, pretty much always sweeps up front and points everything else.

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JMS/MN

03-27-2007 11:48:14




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 Re: How much can you guys pull? in reply to Don-Wi, 03-26-2007 23:23:26  
Shouldn't have been so hard on you with the comment about mixing points- I just figure that the seedbed prep should be uniform- don't understand why about 1/3 of the ground should be treated differently by using sweeps on one rank and not the others. Regarding power requirements- used to run a 4020 with 18 foot mounted Glencoe- they run on a 7, not 6 inch spacing. (fewer shovels). Went to a 4430 (2wd) with 24 foot pull-type...extra hp would match the increase in width- on paper.....worked fine until the narrow shovels wore out and I replaced with 4 inch duckfoot. Then used a 2470 Case 4WD, 175 hp, went to 6-7 inch sweeps. Worked fine with that hp and traction. Now pull it with 4450 MFWD rated 145 but cranks 190 hp. With the 15 speed Power Shift transmission, I need to watch the temp guage because it will pull more than it should. Simple answer is- wider shovels move more dirt, take more hp/traction. Sometimes better to run narrower and faster- then you can sail through the mud so it can dry out, rather than pull wide and slow.

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Don-Wi

03-27-2007 23:53:05




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 Re: How much can you guys pull? in reply to JMS/MN, 03-27-2007 11:48:14  
I think the mud is part of the reason we use the points instead of sweeps, but in the past the machine would be just as wide as the dualed up 285 so you couldn't get very close anyway without risking getting stuck. That was pulling a 14' or so Glencoe with a 2 bar harrow on the back. The 18' spring tooth we have now is a little wider than our dualed up 1855, and has a harrow on the back, but it's not very good and the whole angle iron is what does most of the smoothing, not the teeth welded to the angle.

For weeds, the only one we really have much trouble with is quack at times, so a point rips it out better than a sweep in our area too. We hardly ever use the disk, unless it was spring/summer plowed after 1st crop. Even then we don't like to disk much. It just cuts up the quack roots and makes it come back even stronger.

I gotta go on Thursday to return a carb kit I got for my 1600 (cranked it once more before taking the carb off, and sure as the sun was shining it popped right off... as opposed to last weekend when I needed it and it just refused to start...) Figure I'll take Dad with me and we can both kick the tires, do a little jaw jacking, and decide if it's really worth much, or if it's just another worn out machine.

I'll have to watch the auctions, there is a FFA consignment auction in the same town as the dealer the last Saturday in April, they have some good stuff and some bad stuff. We got a 24' spike tooth there for around $100, then we sold our smaller, worn out 20 footer(same make) on the road for $150 to a developer... My dad got that one at auction a couple years earlier (maybe $135) and while it worked, it would have cost us a good chunk just to replace all the bad teeth.


2 or 3 years ago I got another Glencoe with manual wings, think it's a 16'er, for $100 from a local auction. Good points, no harrow, no paint. It hadn't been used since the guy retired about 15 years earlier, and it sat in a dirt floor shed, along with everything else. Everything on the auction was pretty rusty, but nothing was rusted through. We came out of the auction with a small gravity box, the Glencoe, and a Kools blower for about $250.

I just wanna know where everyone is finding these 18-20' machines so cheep, and if they see a decent one within a towable (maybe 100 miles max) distance I wouldn't mind hearing about it...
Donovan from Wisconsin

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JMS/MN

03-30-2007 08:21:09




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 Re: How much can you guys pull? in reply to Don-Wi, 03-27-2007 23:53:05  
I noticed the 645 'chisel' on the frame- does that have heavier shanks than the field cultivator? Also noticed on another post that the shanks are spaced wider. As far as cheap diggers, southern MN auctions they run cheaper than north of here- simply too small for most farmers in the 18-20 foot range. Southern crop farmers are pulling much bigger sizes than what's found in the livestock areas. Oftentimes in the 3-500 dollar range.

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Don-Wi

03-30-2007 12:47:20




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 Re: How much can you guys pull? in reply to JMS/MN, 03-30-2007 08:21:09  
yeah, now that I think about it the shanks do seem rather far apart... I think I count 7 on the front bar of the main frame, and another one on each wing..... To me though that is a far cry from any kind of a chisel. Guess we have different terms over here than the boys did at IH...

I'm looking in the papers for auctions that list a 18-20ft or so cultivator. I've got a wedding to go to tomorrow, my fiance is standing up in it. May have to ge tout of the ceremony if something pops up though....

I think another good thing, if we can find one with wings and then a narrow enough of a main frame, we can still pull it behind our Massye 285 which is at the shop right now getting a major overhaul. Probably hook that up to the glencoe and drag that around while the 18 is pulling the bigger one this year. May have to pull the 3-16 plow with it to help break the engine in...

Donovan from Wisconsin

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JMS/MN

03-31-2007 20:34:23




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 Re: How much can you guys pull? in reply to Don-Wi, 03-30-2007 12:47:20  
It's very common for a FC to have a 14 foot center unit, and wings beyond, especially with a total width of 20 feet or more. My 24 foot Wilrich has 14 foot center, tandem wheels, with 5 foot wings with wheels that lift. Those 6 wheels are an asset when lifting in mud. Most 18 footers have only two wheels, so going beyond that, either find tandems on the main frame, or at least 4 wheels (that lift) on 20 foot. Some 20 footers have guage wheels on the wings, but they do not lift (and carry in mud) on the wings. Take your time to find what works for you- tillage machines are low on the trade list- likely you'll have it for a long time.

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fixerupper

03-26-2007 04:08:04




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 Re: How much can you guys pull? in reply to Don-Wi, 03-25-2007 20:09:48  
I used to pull a 21' JD C11 3pt field cultivator with a stock 1070 case (108 hp) at about 4mph. Jim



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paul

03-25-2007 21:50:59




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 Re: How much can you guys pull? in reply to Don-Wi, 03-25-2007 20:09:48  
In my soils, a 16' field cultivator was hard to get any speed with an 85 hp tractor, and my 140hp tractor is well matched to the 22' IHC 45 vibrashank. I could likely tow a few more feet at times, but seems to be a nice sweet spot where I can go faster or get things done even if it pulls hard. It's one pass after the molboard plow.

I'm not really sure what the spring tooth round pipe shank you have really is, so hard to compare.

--->Paul

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