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Implement Alley Discussion Forum

NH baler broke needles..why, how to fix?

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Edd in KY

02-27-2007 14:06:28




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Tired of winter..ready to make some hay.

Last year I bought a NH 273 baler that had been in the shed for about 10 years. I went thru it thoroughly, greased it, slowly started it up. adjusted the knotters and after about 15 broken bales it made 30 or 40 good ones. Good knots, and nice straight bales.

Suddenly it broke both needles, smashed them into 3 pieces, and spun one of the bill hooks (probably when the tip of the needle hit it).

First, what did I do wrong? what should I have checked? Is the needle stop the key to not breaking needles? If the needle stop is in place to protect the needles,does the needle stop go into the chamber every time the needles cycle?

Next I recently bought a set of used needles. Do I just bolt them on or do they need to be adjusted?

Then I have to fix the knotter, could the hit on the bill hook have forced the billhook gear into the wrong position on the drive gear/wheel? It does not seem to have sheared the billhook pin.

Finally, how should I restart it to be sure the problem is fixed, especially since it was baling well then just suddenly broke the needles?

One more question, if you bought a used baler at auction and could not talk to the previous owner, how would you go about starting to bale with it?

Thanks for all your help and input.

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Edd in KY

02-28-2007 04:17:37




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 Re: NH baler broke needles..why, how to fix? in reply to Edd in KY, 02-27-2007 14:06:28  
Thanks for the feedback and advice. I went out and got a manual from a friend. I do have quite a bit of experience with other NH balers. Question, The needles were in all the way with the tips by the knotters when hit by the plunger, doesn't that indicate it was in a full tie cycle rather than just shaking loose due to a weak knotter brake? Second the knotter shaft has quite a bit of end play so the billhook gear may have been jammed out of position (time) is that possible? Can I try to force the gear back into position, then reduce the endplay? I know from previous reading that any manual is unlikely to cover these complex issues.

This my current idea of what happened, first the knotter brake did not hold tight enough to pull the needles back out of the chamber, and then the plunger stop was frozen and did not go into the chamber, so the plunger broke the needles due to 2 malfunctions? What do you think?

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RickB

02-28-2007 09:24:41




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 Re: NH baler broke needles..why, how to fix? in reply to Edd in KY, 02-28-2007 04:17:37  
I think the billhook pinion jumped time mid-cycle which failed the knotter shearbolt. As the needle latch is inoperative and the knotters stopped mid-cycle, the plunger came back and wiped the needles out. The brake doesn't force the needles to move; only keeps them stationary when the knotter clutch disengages. Loosen the needle crank arm and capbolt at the right end of the knotter stack to increase knotter endplay so you can put the billhook back in time. Then reset the endplay. Bring the knotter 'home' and replace the shearbolt. Check knotter timing and 'home' position

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johns48jdb

02-27-2007 16:26:32




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 Re: NH baler broke needles..why, how to fix? in reply to Edd in KY, 02-27-2007 14:06:28  
be sure the plunger stop is working freely and not frozzen up. it sounds like the brake holding the needles in place isn't working properly. after you get new needles in try to push down on the carrier for the needles. it shouldn't move easily. i also expect a pen to be sheared in the bill hook or the gear that drives it. for sure the first few times you try the baler you need to turn it over by hand and let it go through the complete cycle. you'll have to pull the new knot off the bill hooks each time after it ties if your not feeding any hay into it, which is what i would do. all the books in the world are no comparsion to a good old mechanic who is familiar with this machine.

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TomTX

02-27-2007 16:12:51




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 Re: NH baler broke needles..why, how to fix? in reply to Edd in KY, 02-27-2007 14:06:28  
As others have said, as to your question: "First, what did I do wrong? what should I have checked?", you got to get a NH Operator Manual and Parts Manual. Follow the manual to the letter, and use the parts manual to understand what parts look like. You could have already paid for the Manuals cheaper than broken parts. You need them as a reference, even in the field. Tom



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RickB

02-27-2007 15:53:43




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 Re: NH baler broke needles..why, how to fix? in reply to Edd in KY, 02-27-2007 14:06:28  
The needle latch does cycle every time the needles do and should prevent broken needles in almost all cases when the latch is adjusted and working properly. The billhook is out of time because the pin that affixes it to the billhook pinion is sheared; or the knotter stack has so much endplay the billhook pinion has jumped time. Replacement needles must be properly adjusted on two axis; Parts failures and failure to tie will result otherwise. The knotter brake has less to do with needle breakage than most folks think; properly setting the knotter 'home' postition is the most overlooked knotter adjustment and is directly related to failed shearbolts or needles if the latch is not functioning properly. Carefully check the plunger to knotter timing. An operator's manual for your 273 will give you enough info to fix everything.

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Coloken

02-27-2007 15:02:15




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 Re: NH baler broke needles..why, how to fix? in reply to Edd in KY, 02-27-2007 14:06:28  
On the end of the knotter shaft is a brake. Its is there to keep the needles from bouncing out of place between bales, then tney are broken. If it is loose or gets slick it will cause busted needles. YOU GOTS GET A BOOK,to adjust



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Weldin man

02-27-2007 14:30:03




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 Re: NH baler broke needles..why, how to fix? in reply to Edd in KY, 02-27-2007 14:06:28  
Ed, Sounds like the thing could have jumped time. Have seen a lot of broken needles on New Holland bailers over the years and have welded a few dozen also. You really need to get a owners
manual for the bailer. It fully explains the timing and adjustment procedures for it and is quite simple if you just go through the steps. I don't know if they are still available from the dealer. I might have one if I can get time to look.

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