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Implement Alley Discussion Forum

Paul, LA , Hugh, Allan, LeRoy..IH planter

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RC farms

02-05-2007 07:24:13

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I'm very sorry that I didn't get back to you guys over the last few days in regards to my IH 4 row planter question. I managed to mess up my computer trying to download an update for tax software and my computer like me is getting alittle older. Don't blame you for being mad at me.
I need to take a good look at that planter...I'm not a very good judge at figuring age but I would say late 50's early 60's model but I'm not sure. Would a picture help out?
The planter plates I have are from Lincoln Ag and are Ivory in color and have 16 cells. Each of the four planters are driven by a chain from a sprocket on a bar upfront and that bar is driven by a bigger chain (there are several sprockets located where the big chain hooks to the bar that drives the four planter chains)that I believe is driven by the lift wheels (not the press wheels...but ya know I'd better look at that to be sure. Again, I'm sorry about not getting back, and LA, man I could use the help to figure this thing out...from all of you for that matter.
Ron

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Hugh MacKay

02-08-2007 09:30:39

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Re: Paul, LA , Hugh, Allan, LeRoy..IH planter in reply to RC farms, 02-05-2007 07:24:13

Ron: Send me an e mail, my e mail is open. I have some info to share with you.

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RC farms

02-07-2007 05:58:32

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More Photos of IH 4 row planter at Implement photo in reply to RC farms, 02-05-2007 07:24:13

I post more photos of my for row planter in th3 impleement Photos section, added phots' 7 thought 14. Hope I didn't over do with the pictures but I thought it would be helpful with the different shots.

Thanks,

Ron

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gary tomaszewski

02-07-2007 09:56:21

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Re: More Photos of IH 4 row planter at Implement p in reply to RC farms, 02-07-2007 05:58:32

This is either a 450(check or drill) planter, or a 449(drill). The manual is the same for both the difference is the trip(check) arm on the gearbox-with the 234 arm near the center of the shaft that drives the four box drive chains. I will look up the manual I have and would be glad to e-mail you any info I can.

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RC farms

02-07-2007 10:40:01

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Re: More Photos of IH 4 row planter at Implement p in reply to gary tomaszewski, 02-07-2007 09:56:21

Thanks Gary,
e-mail is on it's way.

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Hugh MacKay

02-07-2007 06:40:58

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Re: More Photos of IH 4 row planter at Implement p in reply to RC farms, 02-07-2007 05:58:32

Ron: As I see it the chances of you ever nailing down the exact planter model are quite remote. It is 1950s vintage and at that time IH were turning out so many configurations of that basic planter, each with it's own model number, it's going to be a guess at best. Bear in mind even if you get the wrong manual that seed drive reduction will likely be the same on all models.

Having said that, the key to success in what your trying to achive lies in that chain drive with unused sprokets. One of those sprokets is designed to slide on shaft allowing you to align all combinations. To slow those seed plates down, giving longer seed spacing you need to go smaller on driver and large on driven sprokets.

I said one of those sprokets is designed to slide on shaft making it possible to align any combination of two sprokets. Given the age of that planter, very likely that sliding sproket is frozen to shaft with rust and crud. It will have detent balls designed to hold it in any given position. My recomendation is start right now with a penetrating oil every 3-4 days. after about 2 weeks start tapping it ever so gently. By planting time you may have it free. That failing you could take that complete shaft off the planter and use some heat and pulling devices. Be CAREFUL those sprokets will be very brittle.

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RC farms

02-07-2007 06:56:20

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Re: More Photos of IH 4 row planter at Implement p in reply to Hugh MacKay, 02-07-2007 06:40:58

Hugh, many thanks for taking the time to look at this for me. I will take your recommendations and start working with the sprocket set-up and hopefully get them all broke free and adjusted. I might report back this spring to let you know how it all worked out..I know this is practically a relic but I was hoping to get some more life out of it before retiring it completely.
Thanks,

Ron

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RC farms

02-06-2007 06:27:27

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Photos of IH 4 Row Planter in reply to RC farms, 02-05-2007 07:24:13

I posted 5 pictures of my planter titled IH 4 Row Planter in the implement photo section. It was around 4:30 pm and overcast so my full view shot may not be very good...the other took ok. I hope these are enough to help ientify it...if not, let me know and I will take more pictures. All further comments on what model and how to make adjustments are welcomed.

Thanks,

Ron

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jack-ia

02-07-2007 15:38:38

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Re: Photos of IH 4 Row Planter in reply to RC farms, 02-06-2007 06:27:27

Its a 450A had one.And thats what the label said.

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JOHN HARMON

02-07-2007 07:23:43

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Re: Photos of IH 4 Row Planter in reply to RC farms, 02-06-2007 06:27:27

Your Planter is a "450" built in the 60's .

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JOHN HARMON

02-07-2007 12:22:26

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Re: Photos of IH 4 Row Planter in reply to JOHN HARMON, 02-07-2007 07:23:43

Sorry about not knowing where to get a Manual. I probably have thrown away dozens of the manuals that came with that planter. I worked for IHC in the 1960's at their Hickory Hills Farm for the Advertising Dept. and we would get numerous models of these planters in to take Photo's to be used in IHC Planter Advertising and Manual uses etc. and after we were thru with them they were sold to Dealers. Seems like half the time the Planter left the premises with out the Owners manual attached. The Dealers found it quicker to order new Manuals from Parts than try to track down the missing Manual. I farmed at the same time I worked for IHC and my Planter of choice was an IHC "440". Basically two Horse Planters hooked together. It would do a good job dropping Seed when you hit a hard spot for sure.

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RC farms

02-07-2007 09:31:54

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Re: Photos of IH 4 Row Planter in reply to JOHN HARMON, 02-07-2007 07:23:43

Thanks John,
That was one of the two Hugh thought it might be...so I'm glad you narrowed it down. Any idea if and where a manual might be for that model?

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Hugh MacKay

02-06-2007 07:22:43

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Re: Photos of IH 4 Row Planter in reply to RC farms, 02-06-2007 06:27:27

Ron: The planter is too old for me to call it without a bit help. I went to the book 150 years of IH. It's definitely 1940s or 1950s vintage, 1950s most likely. I'm coming up with two model numbers 242 and 450. A photo across the back similar to your front end shot could be helpful.

I think the chain drive you've shown us in no. 3 is the key to your rate of planting. That triple sprocket will be designed to slide on shaft, careful, I bet it's stuck. If you get that chain from the smallest driver to the largest driven sproket, my guess is you'll be going back to your 24 cell plates. Is it possible to get a shot all in one showing power train from drive wheel through various shafts to seed unit. I want to be sure I'm not missing something.

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RC farms

02-06-2007 08:20:58

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Re: Photos of IH 4 Row Planter in reply to Hugh MacKay, 02-06-2007 07:22:43

Thanks Hugh, I'll try to get those other photos tonight.

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RC farms

02-06-2007 08:20:55

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Re: Photos of IH 4 Row Planter in reply to Hugh MacKay, 02-06-2007 07:22:43

Thanks Hugh, I'll try to get those other photos tonight.

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OH Boy

02-05-2007 17:50:14

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Re: Paul, LA , Hugh, Allan, LeRoy..IH planter in reply to RC farms, 02-05-2007 07:24:13

I have an IH 256 2 row planter and have the manual for it, I bet the sprocketing is the same as the 456. I would be happy to send you a photocopy of the charts if that would help you out.

Not sure what questions you have but email me if you like.

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RC farms

02-06-2007 06:04:39

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Re: Paul, LA , Hugh, Allan, LeRoy..IH planter in reply to OH Boy, 02-05-2007 17:50:14

Oh Boy, thanks, I may take you up on that offer but I plan to post a picture of my planter today, so check that when I get it posted in the implement photos and see if it's the same.

Thanks again,

Ron

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OH Boy

02-06-2007 14:32:26

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Re: Paul, LA , Hugh, Allan, LeRoy..IH planter in reply to RC farms, 02-06-2007 06:04:39

That planter is a different design than my 256, mine has big metal drive wheels way back at the rear of the unit. A lot of the parts look the same though.

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paul

02-05-2007 17:38:30

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Re: Paul, LA , Hugh, Allan, LeRoy..IH planter in reply to RC farms, 02-05-2007 07:24:13

Glad you got the computer working.

As everyone says, that set of sprockets near the shaft drive is your planter transmission, and changing sprockets will change your planting rate. Different seed plates will also change rates. You will be amazed at the several dozen different seeding rates they can get out of those sprokets..... It should be simple to count out & do the math, but it isn't - there are a lot of options in there.

A manual will _really_ help you out. You can get one from a Case dealer, or if they don't sell them any more (I'd be real surprised) the on-line places like this site will get you one.

A planter, a combine, and a baler are the 3 implements I _must_ have a manual for. Anything else is pretty easy, but there is way too much set-up with those 3 to be without a manual.

I ran a very old Case planter, now a JD 7000 & a 'bean bar' with IHC 295 planter units on it. Saw a lot of 56 Internationals, but never ran one so I can't give you 1st hand info. Your planter will be some version of the 56 tho. Any machine of that age will have a model/serial plate on it somewhere. They generally are rivoted to the frame (not a flimsy removable piece anyhow), and a bit out of the way so they don't get messed with. Sometimes under a skin of grease from the transmission area or something. I would look the frame of the machine over real well to find that plate. Take both the model number & serial number when looking for the manual. Many times there were model revisions, and the serial number will point to one of 2-3 different reprints of the manuals - might as well get the right one. Dealers generally charge 10-20 bucks for such a thing, well worth it.

Pictures, more description, more questions, keep 'em coming. :)

--->Paul

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RC farms

02-06-2007 06:49:05

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Re: Paul, LA , Hugh, Allan, LeRoy..IH planter in reply to paul, 02-05-2007 17:38:30

Thanks Paul...no more top brand tax software for me...thing still won'tlet me file electronically...and there's no one to help...going to try a free one.
Might take it back.

Well I guess I'm going to have to start looking for that model number plate...and I should have remembered to get those numbers of the gear box.
Hopefully the pictures will help.

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paul

02-06-2007 11:23:57

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Re: Paul, LA , Hugh, Allan, LeRoy..IH planter in reply to RC farms, 02-06-2007 06:49:05

Looks like you'll need to plant watermelon with it for your crew. :)

--->Paul

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RC farms

02-06-2007 12:28:59

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Re: Paul, LA , Hugh, Allan, LeRoy..IH planter in reply to paul, 02-06-2007 11:23:57

If you're talking about Mr. Beans he does eat water melon, doesn't care bout cantaloupe, loves greenbeans, keeps the mice down....he was a youngin there, now about 15 lbs of Whoopxxs

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paul

02-06-2007 15:24:47

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Re: Paul, LA , Hugh, Allan, LeRoy..IH planter in reply to RC farms, 02-06-2007 12:28:59

Go figure - my herd will eat cantalope - got to the point they would help themselves in the garden - but won't touch watermelon.

Sorry for the thread drift....

--->Paul

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wayne from wi

02-05-2007 11:22:26

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Re: Paul, LA , Hugh, Allan, LeRoy..IH planter in reply to RC farms, 02-05-2007 07:24:13

Hey all, what were the 4 row IH plate type planters? I remember the 450, 456, and 56 series. Were there other series? Seems like there was an older one called 449.

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Hugh MacKay

02-05-2007 10:57:09

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Re: Paul, LA , Hugh, Allan, LeRoy..IH planter in reply to RC farms, 02-05-2007 07:24:13

Ron: I see the suggestion I gave you on looking at YT implement photo gallery, was not a great suggestion. Nothing in there but 5 John Deere and a Cole. We'll have to get after Allan to get that IH 500 air planter in there. Then when you take your photos, you'll have the first IH plate type planter.

Those chains with extra sprokets will give you more or less seed population. A manual should have a chart for driver and driven sproket and a breakdown of 16, 20 and 24 cell plates.

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LA in Wi.

02-05-2007 09:10:28

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Re: Paul, LA , Hugh, Allan, LeRoy..IH planter in reply to RC farms, 02-05-2007 07:24:13

You need to send us a picture of that planter, then maybe Hugh or Allen can ID it, then you can call Binder Books and order a manual for it. With a manual you can figure out your "Driver sprocket to Driven sprocket" settings, that's the first thing. I think you also need a 24 cell plate. I'll check out the plate (Ivory, 16 cell) when I get to my shed, but it's -16 this morning and I ain't going out for that!

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Hugh MacKay

02-05-2007 11:03:32

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Re: Paul, LA , Hugh, Allan, LeRoy..IH planter in reply to LA in Wi., 02-05-2007 09:10:28

LA: Think a minute about what you said, 16 cell drops 16 seeds per revolution, 20 cell drops 20 seeds per revolution and 24 cell drops 24 seeds per revolution. I know, that you know the answer, it's this damn cold weather, makes planter figuring tough.

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RC farms

02-05-2007 09:28:31

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Re: Paul, LA , Hugh, Allan, LeRoy..IH planter in reply to LA in Wi., 02-05-2007 09:10:28

Thanks, I'll take a picture of it this afternoon and try to post it tomarrow. or tonight if this computer will cooperate. There's some numbers on the gear box will that help too? It was 12 here this morning with a wind chil of -2...so getting out there to planter on this ice might be a challenge...suppose to be in low 40's tomarrow.

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Allan In NE

02-05-2007 09:24:46

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Re: Paul, LA , Hugh, Allan, LeRoy..IH planter in reply to LA in Wi., 02-05-2007 09:10:28

A left field method, but I'd just put a handful of seed in a hopper and drag 'er across the yard for 10 feet.

A guy should get a pretty good idea of how it is dropping and wheather or not it needs a sproket change.

Dunno,

Allan

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OH Boy

02-07-2007 13:57:46

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Re: Paul, LA , Hugh, Allan, LeRoy..IH planter in reply to Allan In NE, 02-05-2007 09:24:46

Set it up on some jack stands or sawhorses or something, so the wheels are off the ground.

Measure the circumference of the tires. Then spin them and count how many seeds drop on each revolution of the tire.

A little simple division will tell you the spacing it is set at, beware of it dropping more than one seed at a time, or skipping a seed, though. That will throw off your math.

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RC farms

02-08-2007 06:23:54

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Re: Paul, LA , Hugh, Allan, LeRoy..IH planter in reply to OH Boy, 02-07-2007 13:57:46

Thanks, it's worth a try.

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RC famrs

02-05-2007 09:33:34

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Re: Paul, LA , Hugh, Allan, LeRoy..IH planter in reply to Allan In NE, 02-05-2007 09:24:46

Thanks, I tried that last year on our gravel driveway and the planter wasn't too steady ...kinda hopped alittle and the seeds bounced around on the ground...not looking for anything excact but maybe i need to try it again once I figure out how to make the adjustments.

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Allan In NE

02-05-2007 07:38:03

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Re: Paul, LA , Hugh, Allan, LeRoy..IH planter in reply to RC farms, 02-05-2007 07:24:13

Can't see your planter, but the "multiple sprokets" would be the adjuster for the seeding rate.

A lot of sprokets just seemingly doing nothing? They are your optional speeds.

Allan

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Hugh MacKay

02-05-2007 11:08:36

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Re: Paul, LA , Hugh, Allan, LeRoy..IH planter in reply to Allan In NE, 02-05-2007 07:38:03

Allan: 4 row, seed cans driven by lift wheels. IH would make it a number 56 in the 1960s. From there my brain is not working, what came before the No. 56?

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IaGary

02-05-2007 20:16:02

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Re: Paul, LA , Hugh, Allan, LeRoy..IH planter in reply to Hugh MacKay, 02-05-2007 11:08:36

1948-53 was the 42 series

Then the 50 series

Then the 56 series

IH also had a 58 series in there somewhere.

Gary

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Hugh MacKay

02-06-2007 01:27:04

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Re: Paul, LA , Hugh, Allan, LeRoy..IH planter in reply to IaGary, 02-05-2007 20:16:02

Gary: Just looked through a 1968 buyers guide, and listed for that year was a model 54 - 12 row, 20" rows; the 56 - 2, 4 or 6 row narrow or wide; the 58 - 4, 6 and 8 row and it lists 400 and 600 fertilizer carriers, tool bar planters, that could be equiped with 185 unit planters.

Those older units you mention are all listed in 150 years of IH.

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RC farms

02-06-2007 06:31:03

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Re: Paul, LA , Hugh, Allan, LeRoy..IH planter in reply to Hugh MacKay, 02-06-2007 01:27:04

This one looks like it was equipped with fertilzer cans at one time...but now long gone.I've owned this for one season...this will be my second attemp to plant with it. I guess I just need to figure out the sprockets...and get a manual once the model is Identified.

Thanks,

Ron

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Allan In NE

02-05-2007 12:14:37

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Re: Paul, LA , Hugh, Allan, LeRoy..IH planter in reply to Hugh MacKay, 02-05-2007 11:08:36

I have no idea, Hugh. That's as far back as I can remember also.

The point I was getting at, it just can't be that complicated. The ground drives 'er; one way or the other.

Allan

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RC farms

02-05-2007 09:38:05

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Re: Paul, LA , Hugh, Allan, LeRoy..IH planter in reply to Allan In NE, 02-05-2007 07:38:03

Small sprockets low speed...larger sprockets higher speed??

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