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Implement Alley Discussion Forum

IH versus JD plows -Please ! no color wars

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Randy as in Ran

01-28-2007 14:36:32




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Hi , I have a Farmall M . I'd like to get a plow for it for fun type plow days . I have the opportunity to buy a 555H JD 3-14 but was leaning towards keeping it in the family with any IH on rubber . I want the plow to be easy to pull and have good parts availability . I have a good dealer network for both brands . Still , I'm open to any color that was available from '47 on . I have a Oliver 565 and like it for the big tractor but now I want one for the little tractor comparitively speaking . I'd go for another Oliver also if the parts are readily available . I don't want to rip the tractor apart but just have a no hurry fun day a couple times a year in unknown soils . Thanks ...Randy

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JLG

02-01-2007 14:39:36




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 Re: IH versus JD plows -Please ! no color wars in reply to Randy as in Randy-IA, 01-28-2007 14:36:32  
I'm late posting on this, but I'll tell my experience. I have a John Deere G and recently found an F630, 3-16" plow for it. (Its a newer, updated 555 pretty much, built in the early 60's) I put all new parts on it ( which were easily found) and set it up exactly like the owners manual tells you to. I was shocked that my little G pulled it real good in 2nd gear, which is about 3 1/2 mph. I was even more shocked when my uncle's bone stock Farmall M pulled it in 2nd also. We were in bean stubble and later corn stubble, little bit of clay, about 8" deep. I know all soils are different, but I wouldn't under estimate that M. It was getting dark on my way home so I had it in road gear almost full throttle and my plow was following really nice. I dont know a lot about the 555H, but if has the new style bottoms with throw away shares and shins you can find parts from Deere or aftermarket. When I got mine set up right it did a beatiful job, almost didnt need disked. They seem to be a pretty good plow to me. I dont know how important matching the tractor and plow brands are to you, but when I started looking for a plow, for the same reason as you, it had to be a John Deere so it matched my tractor. As time went on and plow days got closer, I didnt care what it was as long as it had 3 bottoms and wheels! I just happened to find mine within 2 hours drive.

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Randy as in Randy-IA

02-02-2007 16:37:41




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 Re: IH versus JD plows -Please ! no color wars in reply to JLG, 02-01-2007 14:39:36  
Hi , Glad you wrote ! I'm still considering that 555 along with a few others . If I miss out on it something else will come along . There aren't many pictures of them in the implement photos section here on this site . There's a IH #15 for sale also I'd like to know more about but can't find ANY info on it at all . Might just forget that one since if no one has one to post a picture of then parts might be just as scarce ! Take care ! ...Randy

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LA in Wi.

01-31-2007 06:33:48




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 Re: IH versus JD plows -Please ! no color wars in reply to Randy as in Randy-IA, 01-28-2007 14:36:32  
Randy, some comments on this thread about a "crazy wheel"; I'm assuming they mean the tail wheel on a trail type plow. For going down the road with one, just adjust the levers so the bottoms are set low to the road, about 4-5" off the road. My plow does not sway and I can pull it at 1/2 throttle with my H in 5th gear. Also, when backing up a pull type, especially off a trailer and by hand, just snap a Vice Grip onto that curved rod that lets the wheel swing around; then you have a solid wheel and can back it up easily. Learned to plow in good ol' Grundy Co. years ago!

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Randy as in Randy-IA

02-02-2007 16:50:59




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 Re: IH versus JD plows -Please ! no color wars in reply to LA in Wi., 01-31-2007 06:33:48  
Hi , That's a idea I will remember when I get one ! Thanks ! I was kicking the idea around in my head about the possibility of mounting a gauge wheel on the rear beam and lifting the plow as high as possible then lowering the gauge wheel and use it as a carry wheel with the tail wheel off the ground a little . I don't know if it would work or not . It wouldn't be steerable is the problem . But it's not a insurmountable problem . I'm just up in Butler county not to far from Grundy . Take care ! ...Randy

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Leroy

02-01-2007 06:02:39




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 Re: IH versus JD plows -Please ! no color wars in reply to LA in Wi., 01-31-2007 06:33:48  
That could work to some xetent on some makes of plows but not all, lowering does help some but will not eliminate all wabble. And that wheel is not designed to run in a straight line with the ground wheels so there is always tire chewing when pulling, the wheel is set at an angle so it works against the sidedraft of the plow and if you were traveling 10-20-30 mile you would not want to run at 1/2 speed, would be over before you got there.

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LA in Wi.

02-01-2007 08:04:48




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 Re: IH versus JD plows -Please ! no color wars in reply to Leroy, 02-01-2007 06:02:39  
LeRoy, you're right about going 10-30 mi, I should have mentioned I only go 1-2 mi when pulling plow down the road. Putting plow on a trailer is best. I learned about setting plow down low on road to avoid swaying when one time I forgot, pulled onto road, put H in 5th gear with low throttle, and barely got going when there was a lot of fierce activity behind me!



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James22

01-30-2007 11:33:06




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 Re: IH versus JD plows -Please ! no color wars in reply to Randy as in Randy-IA, 01-28-2007 14:36:32  
We always used 2-14 on the H and 3-14 on the M. I would think 2-14 on the M would be a little small, unless you are plowing some mighty hard stuff. Always prefered to match colors if possible. A noted professor in the 50/60's used 12 hp/14 inch bottom as the ideal. Remember that draft/pull goes up as the square of the pulling speed, so you can always slow down.



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Leroy

01-30-2007 17:24:11




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 Re: IH versus JD plows -Please ! no color wars in reply to James22, 01-30-2007 11:33:06  
The ground is now all pulling harder than it did in the 50's, minimum now here for 12" bottom is 14 HP, 14" is now about 17 Hp and 16" is up to 20 HP per bottom and our ground is acording to some the easier to plow ground.



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Randy as in Randy-IA

01-29-2007 19:11:48




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 Re: IH versus JD plows -Please ! no color wars in reply to Randy as in Randy-IA, 01-28-2007 14:36:32  
Hi All , First of all Thanks for all the info ! The good thing about these old plows is that they don't cost an arm and a leg so if I choose one that doesn't work well then changing it for something else shouldn't be a problem . I was thinking about a 3-14 just because there's one nearby for sale . I'd go with a 2 bottom also because like I said I don't want to rip the guts out of my tractor . Leroy made a good point about that . Hugh's point about all the plows being good ones from that time period makes good sense too . I'm not to concerned with the color other than I don't like Deere the same way I don't like the Harley-Davidson company . The only thing special about them is that they are legends in their own minds . So their prices are higher for things that aren't that special . But I still own a Harley and wouldn't own anything else . I just don't proclaim them the best .

Anyway , I'm trying to keep the size to about 32-36" of total width . But the one near me is 42" ( 3-14 ) . I'm just looking for now anyhow because I need to get the trany on the M rebuilt first . I think I want a hydraulic lift but I haven't seen the others in use so I don't know for sure . I really don't know much about older plows so I'm starting to learn . Problem is , reading isn't doing so I have to go to the school of hard knocks . Thanks again ! ...Randy

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Leroy

01-30-2007 05:35:30




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 Re: IH versus JD plows -Please ! no color wars in reply to Randy as in Randy-IA, 01-29-2007 19:11:48  
A 2-14" hydrolic is the way to go. At a plow day there will be all makes and models in all sizes, 12", 14" & 16". The owner of the ground will probably be glad if you have a 14" as it will help keep the field more level as following a 12" you will not make as big of a ridge on each pass as a 16" would or following a 16" it will not make as big of a ditch as a 12" would. the smaller tractors are more likely to be using a 12" plow, like a F-12 Farmall or a John Deere H and you will find as many of those kind of tractors as you will find WD-9's with 4-16" bottoms. At least that is hou it is here in Ohio. And the hydrolic lift will be easier to handle if pluging you can get the plow out of ground to clean it out without draging more trash in it and the trash lifting the plow completly off the ground. Also if you get to a spot that you can't pull it then you can lift it up while setting still to get out of the bad spot without having to have someone come with a chain and hook on to you. And if you are not familar with the clutch at the ends of the furrow you can stop and lift the plow if you need to for close turns. I myself would say the John Deere No. 44H would be your best as it would have the carry tail wheel and I am not sure of any other make in a 2 bottom that would have that, all the IHC plows that I have seen do not have it. At home with your other tractor you could use a 3 point boom to unload a plow with a crazy wheel on the back but you would not have that in the field at a plow day so you need to think about unloading the plow off the trailer as well. Seems as tho the ones with the bigger tractors and plows awlaws come to a plow day as a groupe and they have there help to unload with them.

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Randy as in Randy-IA

01-31-2007 05:07:25




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 Re: IH versus JD plows -Please ! no color wars in reply to Leroy, 01-30-2007 05:35:30  
Hi Leroy , you've given me much to ponder about this plow purchase along with all the other good replies . i don't have a trailer to haul anything on so I'm stuck with plow days that are close by . But that's not a problem as there are plenty to choose from within a couple of miles of here . The guy's I plowed with last year drug their crazy wheel plows 10 miles or so to the one I went to . I followed in my pickup for the last 3 miles at about 3 miles an hour on the blacktop . They were both on rubber and one of the plows wheel lived up to it's name - it was every which way but straight ! After he got to the field he found out he had a bad bearing or bushing in the verticle ( sort of ) shaft that held the rear wheel on the tail of the plow . Got to get to work now . Thanks ! ...Randy PS --- It's -10* outside right now with a strong wind out of the southwest . This is the first day of below zero weather predicted for the next 5 days or so , the high on Sunday is supposed to be 0* .

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Leroy

02-01-2007 05:56:10




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 Re: IH versus JD plows -Please ! no color wars in reply to Randy as in Randy-IA, 01-31-2007 05:07:25  
You could make a small trailer just big enough for the plow easily and hook that to the tractor, around hear people will go over 50 mile to a plow day



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paul

01-29-2007 19:35:45




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 Re: IH versus JD plows -Please ! no color wars in reply to Randy as in Randy-IA, 01-29-2007 19:11:48  
If you have hyds available on your tractor, hyd lift plow is a lot nicer. You get a world of education unplugging corn stalks from a trip plow when it plugs up.....

--->Paul



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Bob seND

01-29-2007 18:50:01




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 Re: IH versus JD plows -Please ! no color wars in reply to Randy as in Randy-IA, 01-28-2007 14:36:32  
Randy,
This 555H was a nice match to my M at the plow day last fall. It is 3-14s. I had a 555H 4-14s on my JD 70. I should have had 3-14s for that one as well as the plow was too much for the tractor. This is pretty heavy ground, but my M has been overhauled I believe to Super M specs (before I got the tractor). I have not dyno'ed it. I think 15 hp per bottom for a 14 inch plow is accurate.

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Leroy

01-29-2007 16:07:09




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 Re: IH versus JD plows -Please ! no color wars in reply to Randy as in Randy-IA, 01-28-2007 14:36:32  
I am going to address things different than all others. Remember when you bought your big plow one of the questions I put to you was would your tractor handle it? Well that is one of the questions now, you say unknown soils so as the Farmall in a lot of conditions was only a 2 plow tractor with easier plowing 3 plows so you do not know if your M could pull the plow in all conditions. You like the 16" plows, personally I do not like that big of a bottom. In our soil we would be pulling a 3-12" plow with an M Farmall, if we had to go with a larger bottom then the limit would be 2-16" plows so forget the 3 bottom for that. You are not in a known situation and are not trying to see how much you can turn in a day. You are in it just for the fun. I have been to several plow days and have hosted one and I know prety much how they work. I also know what it is like to go to a plow day, Tractor and plow Dad bought new as a combination in 1944 and used here at home for years. Got there and could not move that plow, not a good feeling so you want to be sure that does not happen to you by getting too big of a plow for what your tractor can handle and traction will also be a big problem, for 3 bottoms you will need loaded tires plus possibly 3-4 weights on each wheel. That is a lot of weight to haul as I dought you would be close enough to drive the tractor to any of the plow days and if you were that plow would not want to trail but wipp all the time. So think of this as well, A 2 bottom with a carry tail wheel you can drive up on a trailer and then back it off again by yourself, a wheel that carries the back end of the plow you cannot back off, you will need help to guide that crazy wheel to get it off the trailer, Then a plow that carries the tail wheel you can let stick out past the back end of the trailer if you have to to get it on a shorter trailer, the crazy wheel plow the trailer has to be long enough for that wheel to rest on the trailer, at least 4 more feet to trailer. A 3 bottom as well as possibly not moving it in the feild and hurting your pride will require a lot longer trailer and will need not one but 2 to help you unload the plow by hant before you can get the tractor off the trailer. Also with the aditional weight needed for traction plus the aditional weight of the plow will require a lot heavier truck and trailer to haul it. A lot more to think about than just Red, Green, Dark Green, Yellow or Orange. You would rather be able to handle the outfit by yourself than having to round up several others to help you unload, they always are having trouble unloading thiers as well, and then you do dot want the experiance of not moving your tractor and plow in field either by spinning out or running out of horsepower to pull it and have to have someone hook to you with a chain to get you out of the furrow so the rest can keep on going. Long post but I have seen all this happen.

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RickL

01-29-2007 06:07:36




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 Re: IH versus JD plows -Please ! no color wars in reply to Randy as in Randy-IA, 01-28-2007 14:36:32  
Randy I have a little genuis IH plow good usable unit appears but would need tires. should be pic on my website Ricksales.com



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jwal10

01-28-2007 19:29:46




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 Re: IH versus JD plows -Please ! no color wars in reply to Randy as in Randy-IA, 01-28-2007 14:36:32  
I have a Farmall H and pull 2x16 model #60 hyd pull plow. I have pulled most brands, they all pull different in different soil. I like the Oliver and IHC the best but I am color blind to red. Buy what you like, be proud of it. GOOD LUCK & HAVE FUN..... ..James



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old

01-28-2007 19:21:36




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 Re: IH versus JD plows -Please ! no color wars in reply to Randy as in Randy-IA, 01-28-2007 14:36:32  
The last time I checked I could still get all the parts that I ever need to either one of the 2 Oliver plows I have or should I say the parts that you need to replace every so often. I think this Oliver 2-16 on rubber would look good behind your tractor



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paul

01-28-2007 19:15:22




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 Re: IH versus JD plows -Please ! no color wars in reply to Randy as in Randy-IA, 01-28-2007 14:36:32  
Generally Oliver was the most respected plow of that era around here in the heavy clay. Pulled the easiest, and were well built. Oliver made plows for many others, like Ford, & most of the current Agco brands.

But, as the others say, will be hard to go wrong.

--->Paul



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Lou

02-01-2007 08:26:35




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 Re: IH versus JD plows -Please ! no color wars in reply to paul, 01-28-2007 19:15:22  
About a year ago I got lucky and found a 3x14 Oliver 3 pt hitch plow, in very good shape, works with the MF 175, even when in heavy ground.



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Mark N.

01-28-2007 16:18:40




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 Re: IH versus JD plows -Please ! no color wars in reply to Randy as in Randy-IA, 01-28-2007 14:36:32  
As the other post implies, it won't matter since these old plows all did a good job when set right. I've only attended a few plowing competitions but usually each brand of tractor had a corresponding plow attached to the back. It always came down to the operator and not the plow so rest assured you can do it however you would want. I will tell you that the Green will probably hold more of it's value over time than the red but for what you are doing it won't matter. Have fun.

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Hugh MacKay

01-28-2007 15:56:56




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 Re: IH versus JD plows -Please ! no color wars in reply to Randy as in Randy-IA, 01-28-2007 14:36:32  
Randy: I'm going to be a great help. In the era your speaking of, there was no such thing as a poor built 3x14 trailer plow. Just poor operators and poor adjustment. There has probably been more championship quality plowing done by 2 and 3 bottom trailer plows than any other class of plow in history. Anyone who tries to tell you different is full of balony, or worse. Your Farmall M will not care what color the plow beams are, or what color the wheels are for that matter.

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Stan - Florida

01-28-2007 16:59:30




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 Correction! in reply to Hugh MacKay, 01-28-2007 15:56:56  
That should have been 52+ years ago. Sorry!

Stan



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Hugh MacKay

01-28-2007 17:33:43




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 Re: Correction! in reply to Stan - Florida, 01-28-2007 16:59:30  
Stan: Maybe that is why the trophy looks so good.

Got the grandson back here this weekend, 9 months and I think he can do 10 mph on hands and knees. Grandma and grampa's house is not child proof. He walks holding onto chairs, etc. He's terrorized our old cat to the point she took refuge in the basement. All is well and we're having fun.



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Stan - Florida

01-29-2007 04:50:15




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 Re: Correction! in reply to Hugh MacKay, 01-28-2007 17:33:43  
Hugh,

Now I know what I have to look forward to (with our new grandson) in 6 more months. Gonna have to dig a basement for the critters to hide in, I guess...hope they can swim...LOL.

Stan



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Stan - Florida

01-28-2007 16:57:43




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 Re: IH versus JD plows -Please ! no color wars in reply to Hugh MacKay, 01-28-2007 15:56:56  
Hugh,

Amen, brother! My one and only plowing match was in about 1954. I used a '49 JD 'A' with a 44H 2-14" plow. The guy that beat me used a Co-Op E-4 (proabably one of those Canadian built tractors) and (most likely) a Co-Op 3-14" plow. I did do a better job of plowing than he did, but he won on fuel economy. Dang!!

As it turned out, his tractor was owned by the local Co-Op dealer, so he was disqualified. Should I return the trophy that I got 42 years ago?

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Hugh MacKay

01-28-2007 17:06:33




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 Re: IH versus JD plows -Please ! no color wars in reply to Stan - Florida, 01-28-2007 16:57:43  
Stan: Well, Cockshutt were hard to beat, remember they were the folks that built those 20+ bottom plows that broke the Canadian Prairies.

You best keep the trophy, it's looks good on you.



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