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Implement Alley Discussion Forum

Why is hay dusty??

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PW in ON

01-23-2007 05:04:59




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I am fairly new at this , but last summer I small sqaure baled some hay and it looked excellent when I baled it and put it in the barn. Now when I feed some of it it is dusty. Some is alittle dusty and some is very dusty. Why would this happen? It does not appear mouldy or smell bad. Thanks Paul




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MyrlfromPA

01-24-2007 05:08:57




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 Re: Why is hay dusty?? in reply to PW in ON, 01-23-2007 05:04:59  
I have said before and again if you want your hay to not get dusty SALT it Salt will draw the moisture out of the hay and also preserve it in the mow. I aint gonna say how long i been baling hay or how many bales a year i do but I never had hay get dusty for me and so far never burnt a barn ..... knock on wood !!! I dont own a moisture tester either and only use a tedder before june first or after a rain. So take it for what its worth bale square and SALT it for horses.

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Iowa Jim

01-25-2007 08:39:23




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 Re: Why is hay dusty?? in reply to MyrlfromPA, 01-24-2007 05:08:57  
The perpetuation of the salting myth is troubling. Salt does indeed kill bacteria, but it must have DIRECT contact with the bacteria. Simply spreading salt on the surface of the hay will not results in the dispersion needed to prevent mold throughout the bale.

Jim



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Ken Macfarlane

01-25-2007 08:24:04




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 Re: Why is hay dusty?? in reply to MyrlfromPA, 01-24-2007 05:08:57  
Salt has been proven to do almost nothing for drying hay but it sure does improve the taste for animals.

A slighty too wet bale has about 5 lbs too much water in a 50 lb bale. Now put 1000 of those in a barn. Figure out how much salt it takes to soak up 5000 lbs of water. Maybe what, 20,000 lbs of salt? No one does that.



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kyhayman

01-23-2007 18:56:40




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 Re: Why is hay dusty?? in reply to PW in ON, 01-23-2007 05:04:59  
You're getting a pretty good discussion of hay here. I only know of 3 ways to get dust in hay: mold, plant dust and pollen, and dirt. As to the last two, unless there are significant weeds pollen is a non issue. Dirt from the field can come from the rake. I get into this working on wet ground. Wheel rakes seem to pick up more than bar rakes.

Mold dust doesnt have to be a pile of white mold. If you can see that, its a sign of big problems. Microscopic molds will colonize in hay, if moisture is present above the threshold level (bulk density is a real factor here). There are a lot of ways to 'eyeball' when hay is 'ready' but there's no substitute for a moisture tester or oven drying a sample to be sure. I've taken more than a few bales out that I 'knew' were dry enough (even recently), and thats with experience since 1983. You can estimate stem moisture but you cant know unless you measure.

I normally use a straight disc mower, followed with a tedder. The haybine runs for square baled alfalfa after first cutting (sometimes) and in soybeans for round baled silage. Otherwise its a pasture ornament. Nutrient loss to days of curing is not a huge issue. Sun bleaching will degrade beta carotene but protein and energy arent going anywhere in a reasonable period of time (give or take a day or two without rain).

Back to the dust though, density is a huge issue. I barn store a lot of round bales which go into high end brood mares. The greater density of a roll makes it even more critical to ensure that hay is below heating threshold. Two years ago I was in the same field with a square and round baler. Hay I 'knew' was dry. Square bales did fine. Out of 1400 I had 4 that were dusty. Round bales were a different story, at day 2 I could smell them in the barn, and it wasnt a good smell. Temperature in the center (that run was 3 rolls tall, 14 rolls deep, and 15 rolls wide) was up into the 120's. I got them out but fast. Made cow hay that was ok for me, but were very dusty.

What I lost on that one barn in sales would have paid for 3 moisture testers.

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Dave H (MI)

01-24-2007 08:06:08




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 Re: Why is hay dusty?? in reply to kyhayman, 01-23-2007 18:56:40  
I want to add something here. Density IS a huge issue! I have found in small squares that, if I check the first round of bales and there is indication of too much moisture, I can back off on the chute pressure to get a lighter bale and save a lot of hay. I will usually get dust in the heavier bales and not the light ones. I then hold it for a couple of weeks and break open several samples to test quality before I sell it.
I discount this hay if the bales turn out too light. I think the density issue is important.
I suspect that if I ever go to round bales I will have to learn how to handle hay all over again.

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wolfman

01-23-2007 17:27:27




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 Re: Why is hay dusty?? in reply to PW in ON, 01-23-2007 05:04:59  
If your hay is dry And cured enough to bale (down to --% moisture), you won't have much or any dust. All newly baled hay goes through a little sweat or heat because of this moisture. If the hay rattled as it was being baled, it was dry enough to bale. Too much moisture (above --%) and it is a noticable sweat. Force your hand down to the center of bale-if it feels warm, the moisture was too great. If it smells like silage it is way too much moisture & too much sweat and if it makes it til next winter it will be dusty. Too much sweat & heat & you lose nutrient. The % I forget cause I'm an old dude. But still bale a few thousand a year.

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wolfman

01-23-2007 17:31:40




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 Re: Why is hay dusty?? in reply to wolfman, 01-23-2007 17:27:27  
The little heat that stacked hay goes through is why you never feed horses 3 or 4 day old hay. most horse people don't want new hay. Also this is why you ALWAYS must stack baled hay cut-side down. the heat rises and actually aids in the curing-out process.



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Dave H (MI)

01-23-2007 12:11:18




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 Re: Why is hay dusty?? in reply to PW in ON, 01-23-2007 05:04:59  
Here is what I have learned baling hay in some of the worst unpredictable weather. If the hay is dusting up on you but otherwise looks good and smells reasonably OK you probably just had too much moisture. Usually some of the flakes will be stuck hard together where the dust is the worst. Sometimes you get a little musty smell but sometimes no. We always have some like this because our field is so inconsistent in growth and some parts are near the woods and don't dry well. I have found if I rake it once early in the morning after two good dry days and then bale it that afternoon late I will usually avoid dust.
Push it to beat a storm and I will lose some of it. I would watch putting it in my barn until I was sure I had good dry hay. I won't sell it if I think it might have this problem. I'd rather throw it all in the woods than risk a barn fire.
I kept all my fall hay in 2006 because I pushed for weather. Turned out fine but I couldn't be sure.

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Hugh MacKay

01-23-2007 11:51:31




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 Re: Why is hay dusty?? in reply to PW in ON, 01-23-2007 05:04:59  
PW: Did any of this hay get rained on while in windrow? I've always found that to be the case even though one gets it dried well before baling. Some species will have more dust as well, and those will be worse if rained on.



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PW in ON

01-23-2007 12:22:25




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 Re: Why is hay dusty?? in reply to Hugh MacKay, 01-23-2007 11:51:31  
Hugh ; Some of this probably did get rained on and then dried and baled. I had forgot about that . Thanks.! Does a haybine really make that much of a difference? I am using a sickle mower and some of the field is heavy and some lighter??



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Hugh MacKay

01-23-2007 12:55:01




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 Re: Why is hay dusty?? in reply to PW in ON, 01-23-2007 12:22:25  
PW: I think there are two benefits in favour of the haybine. Number one is the conditioning rolls speed up drying time. I also found out 30 years ago when I started doing haylage. I was putting that hay into windrow right from haybine. I had always mowed hay out flat even with the haybine. In 1967, (surprise close to 40 years) for haylage I started mowing right into windrow with haybine. Everyday I was plagued by hay that was too dry for haylage, thus everyday I was out raking and baling this material, most of it mowed less than 30 hours. I thought to myself, what a great problem hay too dry and much to quickly. The beauty of the windrows is you can adjust to keep tractor wheels off the hay.

We have always declared sun cured the hay, however air flow through that undisturbed windrow is a far more important factor. Needless to say I never mowed hay out flat again. On many ocasions since, I've baled 4 ton per acre yields of alfalfa-timothy within 24 hours of mowing, Two day hay sure cuts down that risk of having it rained on.

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Farmall Don

01-23-2007 09:13:08




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 Re: Why is hay dusty?? in reply to PW in ON, 01-23-2007 05:04:59  
Review this link on hay discussions for great information.
http://horsedoc_org.tripod.com/hay_quality1d5.htm



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johns48jdb

01-23-2007 07:09:51




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 Re: Why is hay dusty?? in reply to PW in ON, 01-23-2007 05:04:59  
any hay left in the field a day longer than it should losses 80% of its food value. you should buy hay thats only been cut with a mower/conditioner. hay cut with that comb will dry more even throughout and can be baled at least one day sooner there by insuring that you get the best food value for your dollar. the post about not feeding molded hay to horses is right on. i see some guys set round bales out to horses in the open field. i don't know why they don't die from that unless it just not warm enough for mold to form in the winter.

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Hard Knocks

01-23-2007 09:03:12




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 Re: Why is hay dusty?? in reply to johns48jdb, 01-23-2007 07:09:51  
Baling hay too damp is far worse for the nutrient
level than a little too dry. hay that is molded throughout is pretty much useless escept for mulch



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Iowa Jim

01-23-2007 08:26:31




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 Re: Why is hay dusty?? in reply to johns48jdb, 01-23-2007 07:09:51  
Where do you get the assessment that the hay loses such a great amount of the food value? I'd like to see the nutritional analysis or research to prove this as I think you assessment is complete bunk!!!@!


I agree that hay should be put up as quickly as possible, but it must be put up correctly to minimize the possiblity of mold and yeast growth.

Jim



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johns48jdb

01-23-2007 19:41:28




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 Re: Why is hay dusty?? in reply to Iowa Jim, 01-23-2007 08:26:31  
sorry you disagreed with my statement so much. i use to bale hay for the public for over 10 years and had the guys from the agi office come out and check my operation out. they were the ones that came up with those figures. i do seem to recall that that was for just straight grass hay or pasture clippings. i worked for a man who sold hay through his business in town and he never had a complaint with the way i put my hay up or any of his customers. i cut hay for as picky a horse woman that was ever born and i never picked up a bad bale from her. when it looks like straw with no hint of any thing green in it, i don't see it having much food value. i always cut everything i baled with a mower conditioner to help beat the weather and dry the hay good as possible in as short of a time as possible. water under the bridge now. just wish i had my back like it was before i started hauling hay.

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David Snipes

01-23-2007 10:09:20




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 Re: Why is hay dusty?? in reply to Iowa Jim, 01-23-2007 08:26:31  
You are right on that. I have read studies that listed the annual loss in food value of hay. I can't remember the exact figures, but it was something like 16% the first year of storage. The pecentages were much smaller (single digits)for every year after that.



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Larry NE IL

01-24-2007 18:46:24




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 Re: Why is hay dusty?? in reply to David Snipes, 01-23-2007 10:09:20  
What hay losses in storage most is vitamine A. The rest don't change much.



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souNdguy

01-23-2007 07:01:31




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 Re: Why is hay dusty?? in reply to PW in ON, 01-23-2007 05:04:59  
Is it mold dust.. or just dust from the hay. If i buy hay that is a season old.. it will be dusty just fromt he hay breaking down... If it's not moldy.. the cows eat 'dusty' hay just fine.

Soundguy



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Sam (Mo)

01-23-2007 05:20:49




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 Re: Why is hay dusty?? in reply to PW in ON, 01-23-2007 05:04:59  
Heres my two cents. More than likely the hay wasn�t as dry as you thought when you baled it. Even grass hay needs to be tedded and turned to dry its top, bottom and middle before baling. Three days of good sun should be enough time to dry grass, however if there is clover or alfalfa mixed in�or even broadleaf weeds�be sure the hay is good and dry before you bale it, or dust molds will form. Once it�s moldy or dusty, there isn�t much you can do to improve it. You can feed it to beef animals if it isn�t too bad, use it for mulch on the garden or return it to a field as a good carbon source. Be sure to avoid feeding it to dairy cows or horses, which could develop health problems from it.
Sam

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