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Implement Alley Discussion Forum

augering frozen ground

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Deerekkk K

01-19-2007 06:09:53




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I was thinking about a new pole shed this spring. But then I thought maybe I can start now. I dont have an auger for post holes, so I will be borrowing or renting or hiring. Only 8 holes. We are in the dead of winter, there iwll be at least 12" of frost in clay. Can this be done with a 3ph or honda engine powered auger? Not much experiennce with them. The phone poles continue to be put up, maybe I have to hire an industrial contractor with a fancy outfit. Thoughts?

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derek mcpherson

01-21-2007 08:48:18




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 Re: augering frozen ground in reply to Deerekkk K, 01-19-2007 06:09:53  
I'd try n find somebody with a kinghitter post
driver come out & pound em. You'll want to find
somebody that has a 14' post capacity driver. I own a shaver 8 post driver, b/c I'm a fence builder, but man a post driver will punch them
post regardless how frozen that ground is. It will save a ton of time also.



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RodInNS

01-20-2007 13:48:39




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 Re: augering frozen ground in reply to Deerekkk K, 01-19-2007 06:09:53  
I think I'd do the layout, then hire a backhoe. Dig a trench for the poles, set them in place, and backfill it right away. If the auger was the only way to go, then I'd get a skid steer mounted auger with good bits. That might go down. It might not.... Good luck.

Rod



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mike. a tenn.

01-19-2007 18:31:10




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 Re: augering frozen ground in reply to Deerekkk K, 01-19-2007 06:09:53  
fort 67...how big of a hole do you drill for fences? Deerekkk is talking about at least a 12 inch diameter hole, most likely bigger. if the ground was real wet and then frozen solid, to set a telephone pole, we'd sometimes have to put that 18 inch auger down, put the whole weight of the truck on it and let it spin for a long time til it finally cut thru.
...if i myself was renting equipment or paying someone by the hour to drill my holes, i'd be patient and wait til after thaw.

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fort67

01-21-2007 14:31:03




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 Re: augering frozen ground in reply to mike. a tenn., 01-19-2007 18:31:10  
Hey Mike. We dig anywhere from 6" to 14" to 4' deep depending on application. This is done with either a grond hog or little beaver ( 1 man machine) The bits you use are the biggest determining on what your drilling. By the way the Bobcat idea won't work unless you have rear stabilizers. Know from experience.



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fort67

01-19-2007 18:16:45




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 Re: augering frozen ground in reply to Deerekkk K, 01-19-2007 06:09:53  
Not to my horn but i"m professional fence contractor. You can drill in frozen ground with a good two man machine. General or Ground hog. (usually at good rental place) and use the bits designed for frozen ground. we dig thousands of holes a year in all types of soil from sand to rock.Just my two cents



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AlanIA

01-19-2007 07:59:55




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 Re: augering frozen ground in reply to Deerekkk K, 01-19-2007 06:09:53  
When I worked for Morten many many years ago, we would pile up bbq bricketts and thaw out as much as we could before we started with auger. We only needed an 8n to run auger.



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Deeeerek K

01-19-2007 07:55:07




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 Re: augering frozen ground in reply to Deerekkk K, 01-19-2007 06:09:53  
Great comments. Thanks guys. I think I can do a few things now reading these and planning. Maybe take and old burlap bag of wood chips, soaked in diesel and let it burn for a while. Probably smolder for days and draw the frost out. I have heard of sign post being done that way in the bush. Then get the big truck in that does phone pole holes, hydraulic auger. 8 holes shouldnt take them forever if I tune the access up and have a burn bag over my spots. I do want to put in treated utility poles so thinking about it, a small auger wont help me anyway. I want big deep holes. We will see what I get into, this is good planning time.

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AlanIA

01-19-2007 10:51:06




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 Re: augering frozen ground in reply to Deeeerek K, 01-19-2007 07:55:07  
Thawing shouldnt take too long. I think we started thawing first thing in the morning, laid out the site, then started drilling after lunch.



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sharkie

01-19-2007 07:11:48




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 Re: augering frozen ground in reply to Deerekkk K, 01-19-2007 06:09:53  
If i was thinking of drilling holes,i would throw down a bunch of old hay where you what the holes,sometimes the ground from below will thaw out the area where the hay is.It may take some time .I would over do it with the hay..Marsh hay works best. I'am still working on my third barn and drilling holes in wi clay should rent a skid steer with an post hole digger.. Just my 5 cents. good luck.



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digger 2

01-19-2007 07:11:33




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 Re: augering frozen ground in reply to Deerekkk K, 01-19-2007 06:09:53  
When Morten set our poles it was in the dead of winter. They can dig the holes through 1-2 feet of frozen clay. But with a hand held motor auger you would be there until spring when it thawed out.



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Michael Soldan

01-19-2007 06:44:09




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 Re: augering frozen ground in reply to Deerekkk K, 01-19-2007 06:09:53  
Deerekkk..not a chance with tractor mounted or hand operated!!! All the auger does is dance around on top of the hard frozen ground. If you took a pickaxe and chopped down a foot or so and got into thawed ground you might be able to do the job with a hand held. Hard clay can push a tractor mount to its limits. Check you building codes as well. My new shed required 18" holes and we had to put 6 inches of cement in the bottom and let it cure before setting the posts. This is to prevent the 6x6 post from sinking once the weight of the shed is on it

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nballen

01-19-2007 06:34:49




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 Re: augering frozen ground in reply to Deerekkk K, 01-19-2007 06:09:53  
Well, I have only used a gas-powered auger one time (helping a friend)...but I would never rent or own one. Of course, at 5'8" and ~150#, I don't have the "beef" necessary to control the auger or the weight to make it dig in a clay-type soil.

If I had to rent, I'd look at renting a 20 hp tractor w/ a pto-driven auger, or a skid-steer with a hydraulic auger.

Nathaniel



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RayP(MI)

01-19-2007 16:48:23




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 Re: augering frozen ground in reply to nballen, 01-19-2007 06:34:49  
I agree with Nathaniel - those 2 man augers are really 4 man machines. You're going to be augering down to probably 4 feet, and that means lifting the machine to almost head high. Lotta lifting, also a lot of battling the machine, especally if you're going to run into rocks! We had a 5.5hp unit and it humbled another fellow and me. He went right out and bought a tractor mounted auger - wasn't going to do that anymore!

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mike a. tenn.

01-19-2007 06:31:07




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 Re: augering frozen ground in reply to Deerekkk K, 01-19-2007 06:09:53  
i used to put those telephone poles in the ground for a living. we had large boom trucks with heavy duty hyraulic powered augers and drilling those holes thru frozen clay even with those rigs could be a major chore. even tho you wouldn't be drilling an 18 or 20 inch diameter hole like for a telephone pole, i don't know how well a rented auger would work, or even a 3ph auger, but i have a feeling it wouldn't work very well. you might want to wait til thaw out.

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johns48jdb

01-19-2007 06:30:12




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 Re: augering frozen ground in reply to Deerekkk K, 01-19-2007 06:09:53  
i had to put some holes in an exact spot for a customer who was building some working pens inside of a barn where he had put chert. in n al we call chert a mixture of red clay and rocks of all sizes. the first day the auger went everywhere. that afternoon i went home and took a 18" long x 10" diameter pipe and welded two 2 -3 foot long pieces of 3 inch channel at one end of the pipe where it looked like a "t" when i got through. i burnt a 3/4 hole in the end of each channel. when we got to the job the next day, i drove a 18"piece of rebar through each hole after locating the pipe over the center of the spot where the hole was to be dug. the auger stayed in place after that and the guy was real pleased that the holes were being put where he needed them. as always be careful around an auger and don't wear any loose clothing around it where it can get caught. i always keep my hand on the pto control when i'm runnning an auger and watch all the guys around it real close. i don't give it very much gas either, just enough to do the trick

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big hunter

01-19-2007 08:04:32




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 Re: augering frozen ground in reply to johns48jdb, 01-19-2007 06:30:12  
speaking of staying out of the way a friend of mine was drilling hole with a rig for soil samples so the engineer could design the building, he reaching in to grab a little dirt to look at it, squeeze it etc. the auger grabbed him, ripped his arm of up to his shoulder, pulled some of his lat muscles out to



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fixerupper

01-19-2007 17:31:41




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 Re: augering frozen ground in reply to big hunter, 01-19-2007 08:04:32  
I remember seeing a video of a guy getting his shirt ripped off by the pto shaft on a post auger. I happened so fast that it took a few seconds before he realized he didn't have a shirt on anymore.Jim



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Crem

01-20-2007 19:55:03




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 Re: augering frozen ground in reply to fixerupper, 01-19-2007 17:31:41  
Many years ago by brother stood on a post hole digger to add weight. The pto caught his coat and he was pulled in. He ended up wrapped up with his feet sticking straight up in the air after the tractor engine killed. Luckily it was a small Ferguson tractor running pretty slow so that the engine stopped from the extra load.



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johns48jdb

01-21-2007 13:07:29




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 Re: augering frozen ground in reply to Crem, 01-20-2007 19:55:03  
i had a guy i graduated from high school with get caught up in one. his clothes didn't tear off and it nearly killed him. i welded some angle iron on the sides of my digger and found some weights that would slide on and off real ease to use on it there by keeping guys from having to ride it in. most of the time you need a new point if that happens very much. on hard dry ground weight is a must in n al.

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