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Implement Alley Discussion Forum

Kuhn discbine eats pto shafts

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Josh in Pa

11-02-2006 06:13:02




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A neighbor has a kuhn discbine that is having problems with the pto shaft. The shaft will shear the pin holding it to the gearbox on the mower, and shortly afterward if not noticed, with nothing to hold it there the pto shaft slides off and makes quite a racket banging around before you get the tractor shut down. It is an extending shaft, and the surfaces of the shaft get real chewed up, with metal flakes. It has done this to 3 shafts, and not cut much hay (20 acres?) I don't think that the shaft is too long and binding, as we turned the tractor till the wheel touched the mower, and the shaft still didnt bind. The mower runs smooth and quiet, it doesn't seem like it is vibrating. What could cause this?
Josh

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johndeereman

11-02-2006 16:58:28




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 Re: Kuhn discbine eats pto shafts in reply to Josh in Pa, 11-02-2006 06:13:02  
we had same problem on a new holland haybine turns out we had shaft put together wrong so the solid parts of the yoke was fighting each other and binding hop this helps



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JiminIA

11-02-2006 15:17:34




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 Re: Kuhn discbine eats pto shafts in reply to Josh in Pa, 11-02-2006 06:13:02  
Is the pin shearing backing out? I have a kuhn and I have lost the wedge shaped pin in the past on the mower end. I run mine on 540 more than 1000 doesn;t seem to make a big difference. I would make sure the shaft is not binding. It should not shear 3 pins in 20 acres. ...Jim



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RodInNS

11-02-2006 14:16:24




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 Re: Kuhn discbine eats pto shafts in reply to Josh in Pa, 11-02-2006 06:13:02  
Is this a Kuhn or a Vicon. If it's a Vicon, then it should have a gyro 2 point hitch. The Kuhn may also have a gyro hitch. If it does, then the shaft isn't going to scope anyway.

Depending on what series of shaft this is, you may well be over torquing the shaft. Most times, 540 isn't recomended for more than 70-80 hp. If it's getting 100 into it steady, it may be a might bit much torque, and the tube will twist... I find grease to be moderately useful on those shafts, but I never over do it. A little's as good as more.
The other consideration is that the mower doesn't have the correct shaft. If it's an auction special, then who knows what was stuck on there at some point in the past. I've used other shafts in a pinch. Not necessairly the right one either... The shaft may simply be too light. It sounds like the 3 sided Bondolini & Pavesi from the description. There are many many sizes of this shaft.... HTH.

Rod

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buickanddeere

11-02-2006 11:03:33




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 Re: Kuhn discbine eats pto shafts in reply to Josh in Pa, 11-02-2006 06:13:02  
The cheapo pto shaft on my snowblower would either yank the yoke and U-joint off the tractor's pto stub staft. Or press the pto shaft in far enough to pop the snap ring holding it into place internally. This occured when the blower was full of snow, tractor labouring and if I raised or lowered the blower. On the mower I'm wondering about vibration as well. Is the tractor's pto stub and the front spline on the mower on the same angle/slope/plain?

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RustyFarmall

11-02-2006 10:54:43




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 Re: Kuhn discbine eats pto shafts in reply to Josh in Pa, 11-02-2006 06:13:02  
Only 20 acres of hay and already wrecked 3 power shafts? I think I would be letting the dealer worry about this one. Something was not set up correctly.



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the real roger

11-02-2006 10:56:47




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 Re: Kuhn discbine eats pto shafts in reply to RustyFarmall, 11-02-2006 10:54:43  
he bought this mower used it is a vicon not a kuhn. i don`t think he was putting any grease on the shaft



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Josh in Pa

11-02-2006 11:56:17




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 Re: Kuhn discbine eats pto shafts in reply to the real roger , 11-02-2006 10:56:47  
It is a metric shaft, looks like something you would get if you combined a circle and triangle. The shafts were dry with no grease. I'm wondering if greasing them would have enough effect to stop the problem? Definately worth a try.
Josh



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the real roger

11-02-2006 10:54:21




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 Re: Kuhn discbine eats pto shafts in reply to Josh in Pa, 11-02-2006 06:13:02  
i think it is a vicon mower not a kuhn



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Josh in Pa

11-02-2006 11:52:09




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 Re: Kuhn discbine eats pto shafts in reply to the real roger , 11-02-2006 10:54:21  
It is a Kuhn, and it was bought used.



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Roger in Iowa

11-02-2006 10:09:36




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 Re: Kuhn discbine eats pto shafts in reply to Josh in Pa, 11-02-2006 06:13:02  
How big of a horse does he have on the front?

Use the 1000rpm set-up as it will not take as much torque to drive and will allow the shafts to telescope easier.

Roger in Iowa



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Josh in Pa

11-02-2006 10:41:28




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 Re: Kuhn discbine eats pto shafts in reply to Roger in Iowa, 11-02-2006 10:09:36  
The tractor is about 100 hp, and he runs it so that the mower uses all the power the tractor has. I imagine with all the torque that the shaft would be harder to telescope, but the shafts are getting really chewed up in a few hours. Switching to 1000 would be easy, and it is certainly worth a try.
Josh



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Roger in Iowa

11-02-2006 10:49:14




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 Re: Kuhn discbine eats pto shafts in reply to Josh in Pa, 11-02-2006 10:41:28  
Has the telescoping parts been replaced? Is there any gaulling on the slip parts? Is it well greased or does it have an anti-friction coating? Some with coatings are not supposed to be greased.

The 1000 rpm option will certainly help. Don't forget to set your drawbar properly at 16" from the end of the pto shaft to the center of the hitch pin hole!

Roger in Iowa



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souNdguy

11-02-2006 07:35:09




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 Re: Kuhn discbine eats pto shafts in reply to Josh in Pa, 11-02-2006 06:13:02  
Most pto powered equipment i see , that has a telescoping shaft, and uses a shear pin at the input of the implement ALSO has a retainer c-clip installed at the end of the implement input shaft.. that c-clip retains the pto yoke on the implement smooth shaft after the shear bolt is gone.

Remove the shear bolt, and slide the yoke off the input shaft.. look for a machined groove, perhaps right near the end of the smooth input shaft..

if it doesn't have one ( and I'd be surprised if it didnt ), then you should probably drill the end of the shaft ofr a cotter pin, or drill and tap a shallow blind hole for a set screw that would retain the yoke.

Soundguy

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Josh in Pa

11-02-2006 07:55:04




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 Re: Kuhn discbine eats pto shafts in reply to souNdguy, 11-02-2006 07:35:09  
I didn't describe it real well. The shaft has a quick disconnect on each end, so it can be turned around and used for 1000 rpm. The pin that you push with your thumb is getting sheared off. You can see the marks in it that the splines make when it is pulled off of them.
Josh



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RodInNS

11-02-2006 09:41:50




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 Re: Kuhn discbine eats pto shafts in reply to Josh in Pa, 11-02-2006 07:55:04  
It could certainly be the shaft length. You should check this very dilligently through all turns, hitch height positions, and also go through some dips or over some small hills. As the front of the tractor raises or lowers relative to the mower, the shaft will contract or extend.... That's one that's often overlooked, and when the tractor's rear wheels get in a hole, and the nose is up, everything comes to a bind real quick.

The other thing to check is the shaft itself. If this is a metric shaft.... ie. either a Bondolini or the WalterScheid teardrop type shaft, then there is often a poly coating on these shafts. This coating degrades over time and with use, and this will bind the shaft up, and it won't 'scope. Pull it apart and inspect it. If the shaft will not slide easily by hand, then there is something wrong. It's also possible that the shaft is twisted, and this will produce the same result. Any binding in that shaft will cause the breakage you describe, and worse..... HTH.

Rod

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souNdguy

11-02-2006 08:10:12




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 Re: Kuhn discbine eats pto shafts in reply to Josh in Pa, 11-02-2006 07:55:04  
Yep.. you didn't give hardly enough info.

Ok.. so this is a splined yoke.

My guess is the shaft is too ong, and getting under compression, which is then forcing the splines against the locking pin, and shearing it.

Soundguy



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Josh in Pa

11-02-2006 11:54:14




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 Re: Kuhn discbine eats pto shafts in reply to souNdguy, 11-02-2006 08:10:12  
That was my first thought. So the first shaft we cut a few inches off, and put back on with a new pin. And the same thing happened. I will have to make sure that its not too long, but even with the tractor turned so it hits the frame of the mower, there is still clearance.
Josh



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souNdguy

11-02-2006 12:01:22




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 Re: Kuhn discbine eats pto shafts in reply to Josh in Pa, 11-02-2006 11:54:14  
Turning may or may not compress the shaft.. however lifting it WILL.

Did you cut off both sides of the shaft? You have to.

Soundguy



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BigMarv1085

11-02-2006 07:34:57




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 Re: Kuhn discbine eats pto shafts in reply to Josh in Pa, 11-02-2006 06:13:02  
Is the shaft bearing worn out in the gearbox, there has to be something causing that shaft to wobble or the coupling or shaft end is bent.



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