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Tiller vs disc question

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highboyford

02-21-2000 19:55:51




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I was following all the posts on this and you guys seemed to forget one thing.You can buy 160"tillers and let me tell you they take some power and tend to eat a certain color tractors rearend for lunch(hint not oliver or I.H)anyway they are called Howard rotovators,come in alot of different sizes.Or another company made seamen tillers they are a pull type.Or I have never seen one but Oliver offered tillers upto 17 feet wide that ran on 1000 pto.They do note however that the 15,16,and17 not be used for heavy tilling do to their width.Another form of a tiller is the lely rotera but I usually ran a cultimulcher in front of it,alot less compaction then a disc.

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Kemper

02-26-2000 20:44:24




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 Re: Tiller vs disc question in reply to highboyford, 02-21-2000 19:55:51  
Well maybe you had too small of a green tractor,you have to match the tractor to the equipment,and it sounds like a joke to me,I mean tillers are for a garden. Could you imagine the compaction with a tiller in a field at the wrong time,and it would be as slow as moldboard plowing!



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RonMC

02-25-2000 00:18:46




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 Re: Tiller vs disc question in reply to highboyford, 02-21-2000 19:55:51  
Hi - been following this with interest. I'm comsidering buying a 5-foot for breaking up some uneven ground before levelling and for garden tilling for hire in spring, but have been watching a neighbour trying to beat down the weeds on 10 acres by tilling, and here on the wet coast, it doesn't seem to work very well. Too many weeds are left at the surface instead of being buried, and they come right back in a matter of days. Seems a big waste of fuel, have considered taking my 2-14 down there and turning it into for-real dirt for him.

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Tom from Ontario

02-22-2000 07:49:58




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 Re: Tiller vs disc question in reply to highboyford, 02-21-2000 19:55:51  
HBF: You're the guy I want to hear more from about tillers, especially Seaman. I think the company is long gone but I know they offered a wide range of tillers years ago. I wondered if they had turned into the asphalt chompers I see sometimes like LinkBelt and Rex. When you speak of tractors losing their rear ends, could this be the Big Green? I am looking for a tiller right now and then will get the power to suit and I'd like to do it right the first time. I agree with you completely about discs, why pull a huge piece of iron around when you can use a pto driven machine? Tom

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highboyford

02-22-2000 19:47:22




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 Re: Re: Tiller vs disc question in reply to Tom from Ontario, 02-22-2000 07:49:58  
Tom all I was trying to do was point out that tillers do exist larger than five foot wide.As to which equipment is bettor that is up to you to decide.Like Paul pointed out the tiller is going to most likely cost more than a disc,and I myself use a field culitavator and a disc.Do know a family that have used the Howard Rotovator for a long long time,and they seem to get the same yields as the rest of us in the area.Know another who has a 806 I.H with a 903 cummins that pulls the 160 inch rotovator.Whatever tractor you get just see the local dealer and have him tell you if the tractor could handle the Rotovator if you go that way,I know for a fact my local Green dealer(not Oliver) refused to sell tractors to farmers who ran rotovators in my area I do not want to start a "which tractor is best or what is junk or whatever",I am just trying to point out what to look out for if you decide to use a tiller.

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Paul Fox

02-22-2000 10:22:18




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 Re: Re: Tiller vs disc question in reply to Tom from Ontario, 02-22-2000 07:49:58  
"Why pull a huge chunk of iron..." By golly, that's a good question!

I have heard something that seems logical to me, but I'd really appreciate a second opinion:

The theory goes that tillers make the soil tilth TOO fine, it compacts more, and you can actually lose fertility. One sign of fertility is the presence of earthworms. I have a chunk of garden I have tilled Spring and Fall for 10 years or more. I grow pretty good veggies, as I till in composted chicken/sheep/horse manure every Spring, but I see VERY few earthworms. I bought a junker disk with the intention of trying a coarser tilth to compare results.

Any facts/opinions on this subject out there?

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Tim(nj)

02-22-2000 19:22:05




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 Re: Re: Re: Tiller vs disc question in reply to Paul Fox, 02-22-2000 10:22:18  
As far as I know, a tiller should be used when the soil has some moisture in it. It does the most damage when used in dry soil. A tiller improperly used will destroy the soil texture by grinding up large clay particles into small pieces. The resulting dusty soil packs down to brick-like consistency when it gets a heavy rain on it. (Here's a way to visualize: look at ear corn in a 5-gallon pail, and then look at shelled corn in a 5-gallon pail. Note the air space difference between the two) No little air pockets means no earthworms and no root penetration. It also means anaerobic decomposition of organic matter, which makes acid soil.

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Tim(nj) with more

02-22-2000 19:32:22




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Tiller vs disc question in reply to Tim(nj), 02-22-2000 19:22:05  
The only time I have ever used a tiller is for one of my neighbors. Before he decided to concentrate solely on greenhouse plants, he grew 4 acres of flowers for the florist shops in the area. He would spread a concoction of composted horse manure, lime, eggshells and mushroom soil about 3 inches thick on the field in late winter. Then go over with the tiller in the spring when the soil was still wet (not wet enough to compact but still too wet to plow-kind of hard to explain) to mix in that organic material. The tiller was able to evenly mix the material in the top 6-inches of soil, but because of the moisture, still left plenty of coarse pieces for aeration. Right before planting, a trip across the field with a spring tooth harrow with a spike along behind uprooted any weeds that may have started and smoothed the ground enough for the combination bedder and plastic mulch layer to do its job.

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Chris

02-22-2000 14:52:01




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 Re: Re: Re: Tiller vs disc question in reply to Paul Fox, 02-22-2000 10:22:18  
Actually Earthworms don't like tillage. Which is probably a likely reason why you don't see many. Your tilling the soil too much with the tiller to see a whole lot of earthworm activity. Also the disc is the worst machine for causing soil compaction. Think about it. All that weight on those thin discs. I would kinda think the compaction caused by a tiller would be kinda like the hardpan caused by moldboard plowing with worn shares.

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paul

02-22-2000 17:37:54




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Tiller vs disc question in reply to Chris, 02-22-2000 14:52:01  
Ugh. A tiller takes way too much power & maintenence to ever be seriously used for general tillage. I'm sure those big machines had a special use, but no way would I want to spend the money on keeping that drivetrain working. And it would be extremely slow.

Disks were used by farmers because they cut up chunks, cut out weeds, and worked up the soil. They do cause serious compaction in wet soils or in repeated trips.

Now adays every farmer has a disk parked in the grove for those few times we need to cut up freshly plowed soil or corn stalks or something. But, far and away the medium tillage implement of choice is a field cultivator of some type.

I have been on a working farm almost 40 years, and the _only_ reference I ever heard to a tiller being used on a farm was a story from my ag teacher. He said back before herbicides they had a month of bad rain and the corn fields were a sod of weeds. The whole neighborhood rented a 4-row rotory cultivator (5 little tillers) and he crept through the fields in low gear ripping up the weeds. He said he could cover the whole day's cultivating with a real cultivator in an hour the next day.

I would seriously consider what you wish to accomplish with a tiller. It is by far the most expensive machine to operate, including wear on your tractor, and will be the slowest by far. Unless there is a real reason to use one, I would reconsider this several times over....

--->Paul

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