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Implement Alley Discussion Forum

Looking at new disc moco's

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Shep Va

10-25-2006 13:13:25




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I know this is like starting a color war, but I am looking at different disc mower conditioners and would like to hear some of the good and bad on different models.

I would like one with rollers, either steel or rubber, and would like the center pivot hitch on the drawbar. I have been using a 9 foot haybine and am set up for a 9 foot cut with my rakes and tedder, and am worried that the 13 foot models may be too wide for the rakes to get two swaths. Also the power requirements bother me a little, I have been mowing with an 85 HP tractor, but could use my 100 HP tractor if needed.

I have looked at the Vermeer 840 and 1030, the new holland 1411 and 1431, and am going to look at the Hesston models this week. Any thoughts on any of these??

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jiskies2

10-31-2006 21:50:33




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 Re: Looking at new disc moco's in reply to Shep Va, 10-25-2006 13:13:25  
yeah been thinking about getting one of them new discbines too so i can go fast and cut down lots, but i keep thinking then i gotta get a new baler and a bigger tractor and then a new barn to put it in and then more dealers to buy it and then...

Really, what i'm afraid of is, getting one; mowing with it and when i'm done saying "uhoh", thats a lot of hay i gotta bale now before the rain comes...

just my feeling,
jeff

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Cliff Neubauer

10-27-2006 11:03:00




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 Re: Looking at new disc moco's in reply to Shep Va, 10-25-2006 13:13:25  
I'd certainly give the Hesston's a good look, the 1340 and the newer 1345 have been around a long time and have a very good reputation. They don't build them any more but Vermeer used to sell the MC 830 that was a 10' wide center pivot disk mower conditioner and if you could find a good used one it would be a nice size for your tractors. I like Vermeer's shaft drive cutter bar and suspension system but their mowers are heavir than some other brands which will add to their hp requirements.

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Brendon

10-29-2006 08:47:03




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 Re: Looking at new disc moco's in reply to Cliff Neubauer, 10-27-2006 11:03:00  
The Hesston 1345 was replaced by the 1355. The major difference is that the newer machine has redesigned rock guards that are smoother and less likely to drag mud. The old and new rock guards are not interchangeable since the cutterbar cradle was also redesigned. Other than that it is basically the same machine. Like you said, it has been around a long time and has a good track record. The machine is also available branded as a Massey (red paint) and Challenger (CAT yellow). Being a 12-footer, a person would probably want at least 100hp in front of it to really maximize its potential.

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lpmm

10-27-2006 01:11:35




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 Re: Looking at new disc moco's in reply to Shep Va, 10-25-2006 13:13:25  
Have always owned Kuhn mowers for 20+ yrs. Well built and tough never let me down. Have used up to 200 hp on 12 foot machine cut like crazy at 12 to 14 mph in heavy grass. Very tough.



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KEH

10-26-2006 17:01:05




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 Re: Looking at new disc moco's in reply to Shep Va, 10-25-2006 13:13:25  

I've assembled some Kuhns for a dealer and they are well built machines. One warning on a Kuhn or any oil bath cutter bar, don't over fill it. A Kuhn disc moco came in with the cutter bar ruined because the owner had filled it to the top with oil. It was cheaper for him to buy a new cutter bar.

I think Ghel has gone out of the hay machinery business. Their 3 ph disc mowers were Kuhns. JD 3ph disc mowers are Kuhns.

I just got a Vermeer 3ph 9 ft. mower with the shaft drive cutter bar and it does pull easy. You might want to check out the Vermeer mocos. Might could pull them wit less HP.

KEH

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RodInNS

10-26-2006 08:18:18




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 Re: Looking at new disc moco's in reply to Shep Va, 10-25-2006 13:13:25  
In my humble opinion, if you're looking for a premium machine that will stand up over the long haul, then you're looking to a European manufacturer. Say Kuhn or Claas. I've had 2 mowers now with Kuhn cutterbars (neither of which are painted orange), and I simply can't say a bad word about them. They are the top disc mower cutterbar in the world. The only thing I might say against them is that they do take a pile of power to turn.... and the bigger line manufacturers will try to sell you their shaft drive bars that take less power. They also talk up their individual sealed module scheme. They need it because you'll see the modules....
So far as Claas goes, I have no experience with their Disco mowers, but I would probably look at one if I was in the market. I do have a Claas baler, and would buy no other. Claas builds a top of the line machine, built for top end performance. Again, for this you will pay. For my own part I still don't believe, or see where the major North American manufacturers have dragged their hay tools into the same league as Claas or Kuhn. Mabey that's just me.... BTW, if you're working with 85 HP, then 10 feet is about all you'll want in a discbine. I've got 9'9 and it makes a 70 snort awful hard, and still drags an 86++ down on the hills enough to drop a gear. I like to cruise at about 6mph. Good luck.

Rod

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Errin OH

10-26-2006 07:04:46




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 Re: Looking at new disc moco's in reply to Shep Va, 10-25-2006 13:13:25  
Based on another�s experience; check to see if NH updated the pivot connection on the mower. I don't recall' the model but his brand new NH center pivot hybine's pivot is held on with a couple three bolts (some kind of cap thing) and small bolts at that (3/8?). Within a hundred acres it worked itself loose and dropped the whole thing on the ground (running of course). All but totaled it. Trashed the cutter bar, twisted the hitch, left the PTO (1000) looking like a spring and tore the gear box out of its mounts (snapped bolts). Something like 18,000 damage to a 23,000 hybine. At least that�s what the rep said. He made them total it and give him a new one. He wasn't going to deal with it warped, bent, and/or constantly having problems. Given he buys new every' couple years they begrudgingly agreed to his demands saying it was a dealer setup problem. According to the dealer that came and picked up the remains, not the same one who set it up, it wasn't the first time such a thing had happed with that model.

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Marty G.

10-26-2006 05:09:39




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 Re: Looking at new disc moco's in reply to Shep Va, 10-25-2006 13:13:25  
Maybe you could tell us what is available in your area and wich dealers are dependable for parts and services. The big green and red brand use almost the same patented cutter bar. So your choice will depend more on dealer satisfaction then machines at this point. Tell us more Shep.



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Shep VA

10-26-2006 05:48:13




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 Re: Looking at new disc moco's in reply to Marty G., 10-26-2006 05:09:39  
Really we have about all the dealers here in the area, that is why it is such a hard decision. We have a super AgCo dealer, I am part of his retirement plan I think.... A big JD dealer, that also carries Gehl, but I am not a big fan of JD, a new CIH dealer with something to prove, a big New Holland dealer, a good Vermeer dealer, and a small Claus and import dealer. If I go a little further away I can get to a Krone dealer.

So the sky is the limit on choices and dealer care, just looking for the best machine that will last the longest, and be the most trouble free. I would like a 10 foot center swing, but I havent found one yet.

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Don-Wi

10-27-2006 08:32:57




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 Re: Looking at new disc moco's in reply to Shep VA, 10-26-2006 05:48:13  
I would consider staying away from Gehl, they are getting out of the ag business and one only knows how long parts support is going to be around. I know we have an old Fox harvester and there are still parts available for those, but it takes a bit more digging, and a guy better not be in a hurry.

Donovan from Wisconsin



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tw

10-26-2006 01:38:36




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 Re: Looking at new disc moco's in reply to Shep Va, 10-25-2006 13:13:25  
I have a Kuhn & that machine is built pretty heavy duty. It has the rollers for conditioning the hay. It is a 10'6 cut & in heavy marsh hay I run at 6 mph with the 1855 Oliver. (tractor cranks 135 hp) I also had another Kuhn with the finger comb which I loved but it was getting old & tired. Both of them have the 2pt hitch option which is a pain to hook up but once the tractor is on it doesn't get unhooked until haying season is done. (still looking to do more this year)

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Don-Wi

10-25-2006 22:19:57




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 Re: Looking at new disc moco's in reply to Shep Va, 10-25-2006 13:13:25  
A relative has a 10'3" (or so) Krone model (ran it behind a Massey 399, only because he couldn't get a 1000 rpm shaft for his 285) with the "finger" conditioner on it, and it actually seemed to work pretty good in alfalfa. He got rid of his JD swather that had atleast a 14' header on it because it just plain cut faster and dried faster.

We just went to a 14' hydraswing moco after running a 9' moco for years, and the rakes actually work a little better because of the slightly larger space. We've got an old 5 wheel that needs some work, and an old Oliver #2 that also needs some work, but both will leave a space just big enough for the tire to go between the 2 on the next pass to double it up. The same amount of hay as 3 9' swaths, but a heck of a lot easier to rake together without a v-rake(we always borrowed said relatives v-rake). If you've got one of those and you pull 3 9' swaths together, you can actually run it a little narrower to pull 2 13-14' swaths together. Plus there won't be the un-turned middle windrow on the bottom.

Ya wanna mow with yer 1655 5.9? I think you're gonna have to use a slightly bigger one if you wanna go to a 13' model. Otherwise stick with a narrower model because it'll still cut down on your cut time, and you can keep the rake set-up without any worries.

As far as models, I haven't the slightest, never used one personally.

Donovan from Wisconsin

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Shep VA

10-26-2006 05:52:54




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 Re: Looking at new disc moco's in reply to Don-Wi, 10-25-2006 22:19:57  
Yeah, I would like to mow with the 1655 cummins Oliver, it is about 85 HP, but I need an easier pulling 10 foot discbine to do that. That is kinda why I would like a 10 foot center swing discbine, but I cant find one I like. I can go up to my 1855 Cummins Oliver at about 130 HP and pull anything I want, but again I am not sure I want that big of a machine. The Hesston is a 12 foot center pull that they say pulls easy and the 1655 might pull that. I kinda like the design and the easy pull on the 10 foot Vermeer, but with the side pull you cant make a left turn.

Still looking. I figure I can find one before spring.....

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Marty g.

10-27-2006 05:40:59




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 Re: Looking at new disc moco's in reply to Shep VA, 10-26-2006 05:52:54  
Have you considered a GEHL? I know they have a center pivot as well.I'm not partial to any brand as long as they work.



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RickB

10-26-2006 17:04:15




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 My 2 cents in reply to Shep VA, 10-26-2006 05:52:54  
I have been all about center-pivot mowers ever since my ex-partner and I drug an old Hesston 1014 conventional out of the neighbor's dingweeds in 1988. Can't beat the field efficiency of the mowing operation AND other operations that follow. Had 10 years experience wrenching on NH discbines and just finished putting about 600 acres through a Deere 946 finger conditioner disc MOCO at my current job. I like the Deere as well as NH machines. Kuhn will be a little cheaper, but I think they still run a common-sump bar. You aren't going to be happy with 85HP in front of any 12-13' disc moco; I don't much care what anybody says to the contrary. 105 is marginal if you have any combination of slope, a good crop, or want to run 6+ mph. I wouldn't put your 1655 in front of more than a 10 footer. (2pt) swivel hitch is a must for center pivot machines regardless of how much you hitch & unhitch.

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504 Baler Guy

10-26-2006 15:35:12




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 Re: Looking at new disc moco's in reply to Shep VA, 10-26-2006 05:52:54  
Have you looked at the Vermeer Quick Clip blade change system. It is really fast and works well.



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Shep Va

10-27-2006 06:54:36




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 Re: Looking at new disc moco's in reply to 504 Baler Guy, 10-26-2006 15:35:12  
Yeah, i really like that option. Looks a lot better then trying to take off a rusty bolt and losing it in the field.



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Roy in UK

10-26-2006 22:32:15




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 Re: Looking at new disc moco's in reply to 504 Baler Guy, 10-26-2006 15:35:12  
The Vermeer is to all intents and purposes, a copy of the Lely (They too have the Quick-Clip system)I know from experience the Lely is an excellent mower that seems very easy to spin because of their "shaft drive" cutter bar mechanism. Kuhns are very popular over here, so are 'green and yellow Kuhns' ( John Deere )
I have had no experience with Claas, but their stuff is really well made. Massey, John Deere and NH combines and balers seem to be made of tinfoil compared to those made by Claas.

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504 Baler Guy

10-31-2006 04:14:56




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 Re: Looking at new disc moco's in reply to Roy in UK, 10-26-2006 22:32:15  
The Vermeer conditioners use a Lely cutter bar and then the rest is Vermeer design. The Quick Clip is a Vermeer design.



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Hay DR

10-27-2006 13:38:36




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 Re: Looking at new disc moco's in reply to Roy in UK, 10-26-2006 22:32:15  
third party image

The Vermeer in not a copy of Lely it is a Lely. Vermeer uses the lely transmissions and doe the frame fabrication here in the States. The HayMaxx disc mowers are a combination of the Optimo and Splendimo technology packaged for thousands of $$$ savings.

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