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Green colored hay???

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Randy as in Ran

07-27-2006 18:22:11

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Hi , As I was reading Joe in IN's post down below about rained on hay I got to wondering how green is green concerning what's perceived as " good " hay ? This being only the middle of my second year of doing hay I've found that in order for the mostly grass mix to get dry enough to bail here in NE Iowa it seems to have to have a fair amount of " weathered " hay involved ( tan to brown ) . My bails , which I admit I usually have been bailing a bit on the damp side , have a dull green-brown look to them . After a couple weeks in the barn they are mostly tan-brown on the outside but the green-brown color is still on the inside . It doesn't bother my wifes horses and they put on weight over the winter eating it . We bought hay from a neighbor which had the bright green color and the horses lost a few inches on it but he cuts for quantity ( late ) . Another neighbor that raises percherons always say's it don't matter what color the hay is as long as it didn't get to rained on , was cut early and bailed dry . My hay has that not - so - green color but it's soft and fluffs up well when the strings are cut and smells real good . If it didn't have those thistle weeds in it I'd stuff my mattress with it ! ( ouch ! ) It's a good thing she has weird horses that like thistle weeds . Cuttin em seems to make em multiply but that's for a different discussion . So what gives on this idea that color is the end all of good hay ? ...Randy

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Kelly C

08-02-2006 06:25:53

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Re: Green colored hay??? in reply to Randy as in Randy-IA, 07-27-2006 18:22:11

I have this same problem. My hay barn is open on the south side and the air and sun bleach out the top bales. STill green inside and the bales under are still green. Makes it hard to sell. They think its old hay.
They turn brown in thier barn too.

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RickL

07-28-2006 05:49:16

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Re: Green colored hay??? in reply to Randy as in Randy-IA, 07-27-2006 18:22:11

You are just learning the real facts of baling,no big deal. The color yes always makes things look better doesn't always mean its better actually if is to green color it usually will be moldy white inside. thers is a fine line in dry green hay. How you rake and how often will determine alot of it. Its basically sun exposre. Eye appeal sells

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Randy as in Randy-IA

07-29-2006 14:42:04

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Re: Green colored hay??? in reply to RickL, 07-28-2006 05:49:16

Hi Rick , Exactly - on all counts . Eye appeal ... can't talk anyone out of it . If ya been told something the same way for a long time you will tend to start to believe it . Brainwashing . Even if it's not right . This holds true with all the old wives tales . Like if a coon is seen during the light of day it's sick . Balderdash ! Who believes crap like this anyway ? If hay is a fine bright green it's better than a hay that's not so much of the green color ? Only testing it will prove one way or the other . But until that test no one will believe it . But that's what is generally assumed right ? Might be true , might not in some cases . Like I said , I bought good looking late cut hay that doesn't appear to do the horses right . My hay , early cut and not so good looking , but the horses seem to do better with it . Maybe it has nothing to do with the color and it's the type of grass in the hay , I don't know . Like you say , the fact of haying that I'm learning is it needs to be ; 1) early cut for more protein and less lignon , 2) dried as fast as possible , if that means two weeks on the ground and a brown color , so be it , 3) baled dry but not too dry especially if there's a legume involved , 4) cut about 4 - 5 inches above the ground so there's some stubble to let air under the down hay so the bottom can get some drying going too and 5) experiment and learn from past experience ( yours and others ) and do what works for you . You think that this more or less sums it up ? Take care ...Randy

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RickL

07-29-2006 15:11:30

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Re: Green colored hay??? in reply to Randy as in Randy-IA, 07-29-2006 14:42:04

it just the life of doing hay or any crop as far as thats concerned. its just like the favorite saying I always get. I WANT REALL NICE HAY AT CHEAP PRICE. Heres always my answer. iHAVE CHEAP HAY AND i HAVE NICE HAY BUT NOT AT THE SAME PRICE,YOU CHOOSE,BUT I DO NOT HAVE NICE HAY AT CHEAP PRICE PERIOD.

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Nebraska Cowman

07-28-2006 04:44:13

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Re: Green colored hay??? in reply to Randy as in Randy-IA, 07-27-2006 18:22:11

Marketing Marketing, Look at your dogfood, nifty little shapes and colors, Do you realy think the dog cares?

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Randy as in Randy-IA

07-29-2006 08:58:41

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Re: Green colored hay??? in reply to Nebraska Cowman, 07-28-2006 04:44:13

Yeah and the fancy flavors in housepets food too ! If they made it smell and taste like rotten something the animals would still eat it . So I guess hay is the same so to speak ? If it smells like hay that's about all that's needed ? I've been told that horses are color blind anyway . Our Appaloosa is blind and has been for most of his life . It doesn't hurt his eating habits or anything else he does for that matter . If I didn't tell people he was blind they'd never know it . Take care ...Randy

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Leland

07-28-2006 02:09:57

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Re: Green colored hay??? in reply to Randy as in Randy-IA, 07-27-2006 18:22:11

Go to a restruant supply place and get some 50lb bags of table salt and spread a thin layer on each layer of bales this will help damp hay cure just don't put to much on as it can rot the wires off .

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Randy as in Randy-IA

07-29-2006 08:43:18

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Re: Green colored hay??? in reply to Leland, 07-28-2006 02:09:57

Hi Leland , I hesitate to put salt in the barn . I don't have a good reason for not wanting to I just don't like the idea of salting the wood down even though I know it won't hurt it . The floor of the mow is nailed down and I don't want the nails to rust away . The rest of the barn is peg and tenon construction - no fasteners anywhere in it . I use twine not wire so that part isn't an issue either . Thanks ! ...Randy

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Leland

07-29-2006 10:02:33

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Re: Green colored hay??? in reply to Randy as in Randy-IA, 07-29-2006 08:43:18

we have been salting hay in the bard for several decades and never had that much of a problem with nails ,you just spread a thin layer on each layer the salt desolves into the damp hay when it heats up anyway .

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Randy as in Randy-IA

07-29-2006 12:37:09

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Re: Green colored hay??? in reply to Leland, 07-29-2006 10:02:33

Yeah I agree with you . I know it won't hurt anything but doesn't it make a mess if the hay isn't wet enough to melt the salt ? And won't it attract rodents ? We have coons in the barn which we like having but we have never had a rodent problem due I believe to the fact that we have coons in the barn . They don't co-exist very well . I know it's not because we have cats that's for sure because they live inside and outside the house and co-exist with the mice just fine which also live in the house :-) at least till the traps get them . We've never had rats around here . How thin is a thin layer ? Can't see that salt was applied thin , a white sheen thin or a layer that is clearly visable ? I stack our hay first layer on the side then all the next layers flat . We have enough room in the barn most times to spread out sweating hay on it's side in a single layer spaced a few inches apart and run a fan on it . After a week or so we turn the tougher ones or open them and give all the horses a feast and stack the rest . This has worked OK so far with only a few dusty or outright moldy bales . Even the hay that was rained on as I was unloading them from the wagon dried OK with only a couple dusty ones . If I were making thousands of bales a cutting this woundn't be practical for sure but for the 200 to 400 bales I make per cutting this works OK . Take care ...Randy

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Leland

07-29-2006 16:45:44

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Re: Green colored hay??? in reply to Randy as in Randy-IA, 07-29-2006 12:37:09

We always just had a bucket and threw it around by hand kinda like a fine dusting ,but we only salted when the hay was wet did not worry about dry hay . But as far as coons or rats they even show up in the cleanest of operations . . And you were correct we usually put up around 2500-3500 bales the first cutting and the humidity is bad here in cent ILL and we always stack on edges andleft plenty of holes for air.

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Joe in IN

07-27-2006 20:13:33

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Re: Green colored hay??? in reply to Randy as in Randy-IA, 07-27-2006 18:22:11

I often do the same thing Randy. Read someones post and that sparks a question. This is only my third year so it's good to see newbies like myself. This board and all the posters are a tremendous asset.

Honest and truely the research I have done says that a little rain makes the hay turn brown, the loss of a little vitamins but is still good. The people don't like the hay because of color but the hay burners(horses) still eat it just fine, as long as it is baled dry.

I watch the Relative Humidity and dew points a lot. Last year, over Labor day, I had 85 degree weather and the humidity was at 22% during the heat of the day(in Indiana if you can believe it). Hay was as green as I'll (Probably) ever make. Do it at 90 and 50% humidity with dew at night and browning occurs and it doesn't look pretty.

I sell to horse people, who are entirely too picky and buy a lot based on the appearance.

So far we've had about 1/2 inch with it raining as i type. I did look under the 'shell' of the rained on hay and there is some green underneath. I hope I can save this green so it doesn't look too bad.

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Randy as in Randy-IA

07-29-2006 10:07:58

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Re: Green colored hay??? in reply to Joe in IN, 07-27-2006 20:13:33

Hi Joe , I do it all the time .

I think the rain issue isn't as important as the sun . Most times haying is timed to exclude big rains if possible but to include as much sun as possible . The hay turns brown in the sun - from bleaching . So far my hay , rained on or not , has turned brown on top within a day of cutting with strong sunlight . And when it's rained on that just means more days in the sun . I'm thinking I need a tedder or a better rake , one that fluffs it up better . Mine has a tendency to roll it and not lift it and fluff it . But money talks and I haven't heard more than a whisper for a few weeks now . All equipment buying and upgrades have to wait a couple more months till later in the fall . I hope you got your hay up OK this week . Mine won't be ready for a third cutting for a few more weeks or more if we don't get more rain . Got two and a tenth inches early this week but the fields as dry as a bone again on the surface anyway . All in all the crops around me are prime . That rain happened at just the right time for the corn and beans . It helped some for the hay but my sickle was set to low and I didn't stop to reset it so I burned a few areas out cutting so low . I have the moco set up around 4 - 5 inches but the sickle was down around two - three . The moco got a wad of grass under the sickle drive belt and broke it so I had to finish with the sickle . Do -Do happens when ya get in a hurry . Take care ...Randy

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Dave H (MI)

07-27-2006 19:30:52

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Re: Green colored hay??? in reply to Randy as in Randy-IA, 07-27-2006 18:22:11

I think you are going to find that there are a lot of opininons out there about hay. Some right and some not right and some just plain foolish.
My bales look like you describe yours. I feed goats and my customers feed horses. No one complains about the palatability of my hay. The animals eat it and do well. These are show horses and have to be fit and perform well. Mixed grass hay is always going to have some brown in it. Around here orchard matures before the quackgrass and timothy is probably the last.
The dry stems from the orchard grass seem to help with drying. I can bale it earlier but have to really keep an eye on the moisture in those stems.
Rain most years dictates the time and NOT the color of the hay. Sounds to me like your hay is fine. I assume you have supplements and concentrates in the diet too so I doubt a little vitamin A loss is material. Just another opinion.

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Randy as in Randy-IA

07-29-2006 11:56:00

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Re: Green colored hay??? in reply to Dave H (MI), 07-27-2006 19:30:52

Hi Dave , My wife has a 26 year old mustang straight from the Colorado high country . She went up in the mountains and bought it as a foal from the open range herd that a cowboy friend of hers had up there when we/she lived in Edwards . She saw what those horses survived on so she knows that they aren't the delicate little flowers that most people think they are . I'm not really as concerned with the quality of my hay as I sound . The horses have been doing well on all of it . So far I don't make enough hay for our horses so I still have to buy a couple hundred bales each year . That was part of the basis for my question . Their hay looks better but doesn't perform as well . We have a mare and a foal that are in the dry lot so have to be fed hay year round . They are the ones that lost a few inches . The others are pastured year round but still get a couple flakes a day I guess ( I don't feed the horses if I can get out of it ) and other feeds and blocks . The pasture is mostly weeds and weed grasses . I can't mow it because of all the big rocks out there . BIG rocks ! Tractor size rocks . And it's wet a good part of the year too . Probably why the rocks are still there after over 100 years of being a farm . Take care ...Randy

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Roger in Iowa

07-27-2006 19:16:39

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Re: Green colored hay??? in reply to Randy as in Randy-IA, 07-27-2006 18:22:11

The color is vitamins, specifically vitamin A I believe, and if the hay is all brown from the sun it has bleached out the vitamin A. Therefore you are better off to let hay dry and then turn it to finish drying just before baling as opposed to turning it earlier and letting it all turn brown.

My $0.02
Roger in Iowa

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Randy as in Randy-IA

07-29-2006 13:14:18

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Re: Green colored hay??? in reply to Roger in Iowa, 07-27-2006 19:16:39

Hi Roger , If I remember right you aren't that far from me so you have a good insight as to the weather in the real local area . Have you had a problem with the ground being to wet and not letting the bottom hay dry ? I tried to do that this last cutting but was afraid the bottom was starting to mold since I cut with a sickle and it was laying flat and had beads of water on it after three days . The couple of rounds that I got in with the conditioner looked good after three days . Even in a swath it was still fluffier . But then after I was already baling it got rained on and I had to rake it a couple more times , due I think , to my rake not being the best fluffing rake there is . I raked in the morning and early afternoon ( very low humidity that day ) then baled later and it turned out OK . Soft and a nice brown/green color with not to many stems . I made 24" bales packed so tight I still can't get my hand into them more than two inches to check them for heat . But all that I've checked are cold to the touch so I guess I done OK . Still got to work on the baler adjustments though . They are still heavy they are so tight . Heavy for my wife anyway . She wants 30 lb bales or less . Take care in this humidity . The heat index is up to 115 * for the next two days . I'm inside because I used up this weeks allowance of sweat cutting the concrete deck of an old bridge sidewalk off to replace it this week . Take care ...Randy

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Roger in Iowa

07-29-2006 20:20:58

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Re: Green colored hay??? in reply to Randy as in Randy-IA, 07-29-2006 13:14:18

Hi Randy, I am at Ottumwa. Making hay is an art and a science. Some of it is knowledge you have gained and some others have learned and passed on. Lately, it has not been good weather for making hay as the humidity is so high. The ground is still damp from 1"rain of several days ago. It does help to have long stubble to keep hay off the ground, if the ground is wet, but you lose tonnage.
If hay is rained on shortly after cutting it is not nearly as bad as rain on hay that is ready to bale.
Lots of factors and none fit each situation.
Regards,
Roger in Iowa

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Roger in Iowa

07-29-2006 20:20:20

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Re: Green colored hay??? in reply to Randy as in Randy-IA, 07-29-2006 13:14:18

Hi Randy, I am at Ottumwa. Making hay is an art and a science. Some of it is knowledge you have gained and some others have learned and passed on. Lately, it has not been good weather for making hay as the huumidity is so high. The ground is still damp from 1"rain of several days ago. It does help to have long stubble to keep hay off the ground, if the ground is wet, but you lose tonnage.
If hay is rained on shortly after cutting it is not nearly as bad as rain on hay that is ready to bale.
Lots of factors and none fit each situation.
Regards,
Roger in Iowa

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jossette

07-27-2006 18:50:35

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Re: Green colored hay??? in reply to Randy as in Randy-IA, 07-27-2006 18:22:11

Take one of your good hay bales and set it out in the sun this weekend. Poor a gallon of water over the entire bale and then take it apart in a couple of weeks. Rain will do the same thing if you bale it wet and once it dries to far, all you have is bedding.

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Randy as in Randy-IA

07-29-2006 14:00:46

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Re: Green colored hay??? in reply to jossette, 07-27-2006 18:50:35

Hi Jossette , I'm confused by your last sentence . You wrote " Rain will do the same thing if you bale it wet and once it dries to far, all you have is bedding. " . What do you mean about drying to far ? To far in the bale ?

I know about moldy hay ( I've made plenty ) and how it gets to that point but my experience , limited as it is , indicates that if the bale starts to visibly mold it's trash anyway not bedding even if it dries completely . Mold isn't good for anything to breath so bedding isn't a good use for moldy hay . Mulch might be if it's spread by a machine . I know that dusty hay is also mold but it can be washed off according to the locals and my wife since it's only a surface mold . I'm no scientist and I'm not an expert on mold because I thought all mold grows the same way . It all has a sort of root system that penetrates whatever it's growing on . I don't know . We lost half a load of our first cutting this year to mold because it was left on the wagon with tarps over it for weeks and the tarps leaked water into it . It had a good layer of mold ( and other fungi ) on the wood of the rack that we had to kill with bleach before we could put hay on it again . I also know I felt like s*@t the day after I had to unload that moldy hay from the wagon by hand and breathed that stuff for just an hour and a different time this spring when a round bale we bought was black inside and I had to unroll it and pichfork it onto the wagon and then unload it where we burn it . It felt like I had the flu . Not good . I'm to stubborn ( stupid? ) to wear a good dust mask . Anyway , Take care ...Randy

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jossette

07-29-2006 19:08:47

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Re: Green colored hay??? in reply to Randy as in Randy-IA, 07-29-2006 14:00:46

Well, Rained on hay is not the end of the world, but it takes a lot of nutrients with it as it dries further. Sometimes if you let it set out to long, it turns real brown and gets to stiff to even let anything eat it. So it just goes to bedding because they will pick though it and leave a lot back. Good green 36 hour dried hay is more cost effective than 2 week brown hay that got rained on twice. There's just more to put in the spreader when it is to brown and rained on....

stay inside this week

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Ken Macfarlane

07-28-2006 05:58:23

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Re: Green colored hay??? in reply to jossette, 07-27-2006 18:50:35

Sunlight bleaches the hay to my knowledge not rain, but wet hay has to stay out in the sun longer to dry. Late cut hay will have very low protein and is why your animals lost inches. Also late cut hay tends to lets weeds make it to seed and proliferate in the fields.

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Randy as in Randy-IA

07-29-2006 09:28:51

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Re: Green colored hay??? in reply to Ken Macfarlane, 07-28-2006 05:58:23

Hi Ken , I've been told " sunlight bleaches and rain leaches " . I take that to mean the UV rays or the heat of the sun destroys the vitamins and rain which runs through will wash certain parts away ( vitamins , minerals ?? ) . Whatever it is , both are bad for hay to get the highest quality . According to New Hollands haymakers handbook early cut rained on hay has a higher quality than perfectly cured late cut hay . And it also say's that quick cured hay - " hay in a day " - is better than weathered hay . In order for my hay to dry it needs to lay in the field at least 4 days it seems even with conditioning . So much for the "hay in a day " idea ! The problem I have is the trees on the south side of the field prevent the wind from getting to the ground very well . I know I put up some good quality hay but it isn't a marketable looking hay . I am curious as to what the RFV would be on some of it . But not curious enough to spend the money to find out :) Thanks ! Take care ...Randy

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