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Implement Alley Discussion Forum

Restoring 14 T Baler Questions

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Robert w/ 39B 1

05-31-2006 22:37:24

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Hello, I am currently into a 14T baler restoration and have a few questions. The baler I found is in overall good shape but it clearly has some problems I will need help with. It had a Wisconsin engine that I took off. I want to run it with a 540 PTO off my spoke wheel 39B (fully restored). Problem is I don't have the slip clutch or PTO shafts shown in the manual. Are there aftermarket clutches and PTO shafts that will work? Does anyone one know where I could get a slip clutch and PTO shaft setup that was made for it? This is probably a stupid idea but can it be run safely with out the slip clutch or will I break something?
Also the bale chamber bottom has a few baseball size holes that clearly were not original! Can I cut a section of the bale chamber floor out back to good metal, make a new floor out of sheet of the same thickness and weld it in or will that damage it in any way that would prevent operation?
I will only be baling 3 to 4 acres its for one horse. What I really want to do with it is restore it, paint it all up and show it with the 39B at fairs and in parades.

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Tx Jim

06-02-2006 04:04:04

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Re: Restoring 14 T Baler Questions in reply to Robert w/ 39B 14T, 05-31-2006 22:37:24

Robert,what Randy stated about pto shaft is correct as it has a slip clutch and ORC. Don't let anyone discourage you about your JD B pulling a 14T. I pulled for "fun" a JD 214WS with my '45 JD BO and it baled just fine. Good luck baling. Tx Jim

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Seth_ia

06-01-2006 19:44:59

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Re: Restoring 14 T Baler Questions in reply to Robert w/ 39B 14T, 05-31-2006 22:37:24

Park the whole rig at the bottom of a ravine. A 14t with big rust holes in it isn't worth fixing or restoring. Their a dime a dozen. I'm assuming that you do not have experience with knotters. They are likely worn out judging by the sound of the machine. Knotters are a real headache if you aren't familar with them. Rust and ware are knotters biggest enamies. A useable 14T might cost $300, Deere has never made a good square baler and serious users don't want them. Like the others said, if your going to put a square baler on a B, you need a motor. You can mow and rake, but hire the baling done. It will cost maybe $.45/bale to have somone drop bales on the ground. It will be the best money you ever spent.

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RickL

06-02-2006 04:27:36

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Re: Restoring 14 T Baler Questions in reply to Seth_ia, 06-01-2006 19:44:59

Must not like green paint from what you said about Deere never had good baler. I ran two of them for years and switched to one larger red unit. Biggest mistake I made i know now Live anmd learn they both can be headaches but the Deeres defintely made more uniform bales.

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Seth_ia

06-02-2006 20:48:09

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Re: Restoring 14 T Baler Questions in reply to RickL, 06-02-2006 04:27:36

I love JD green paint, except when it comes to square balers. Deere has the best tractors and round balers. I am not impressed with the weight of the bales I've seen or the auger feed mostly, but to each their own. I won't even get started on the 100 mid-size baler made by Krone. I run an old 273 New Holland pulled by a JD 4430 and its a pretty good baler. Its low capacity, but I have impressed a deere baler owner. I've heard guys say that the new NH balers aren't as good as they should be.

After buying a hesston big square baler(pulled by a JD 4640), I'm now sold on hesston. Their small balers are a mirror image of the big ones. If I ever trade up small balers(unlikely), it will be to a hesston. They make great consistant heavy bales and are high capacity. I'm newly convinced that a stuffer is almost essential to any size square baler. The neighbor has one and it could out work two guys on a rack easy.

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RickL

06-03-2006 05:55:29

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Re: Restoring 14 T Baler Questions in reply to Seth_ia, 06-02-2006 20:48:09

Yes wil agree with a stufer or packer fork on small square balers. i grew up behind the old JD 14t with thrower worked summers also following to other small squares alll around the area.One of them was geen unit number I forget now but was a bouve 14t reall wore you out,two guys even,the other was red 2oo series baler nto sure exact model now either but they are all known in my areas as banana balers. tieing was nothing to worry about in any of them just could never get enough hay to the far side of chamber in the red ones,reall had to watch where you let windrow enter baler. anyway years later when I started doing hay for my only crop I knew I didin't want a red baler without packer for. Thus thats how I ended up with a 570 new holland. Was brand new unit fellow bought it and died 3 months after getting it. He never got to use it. Neighbor rented it and then sold it for the widow,he had nothing wrong with it ,I got it cheap. Anyway tried to use it and didin't get the the first bale out of it without h#ll breaking loose. course this was 4th July 60acres to bale. The neighbor guy then told me the truth somthing was wrong with the unit he couldn't get it to bale either. Tore it down right on the spot and all it was was the feedng arms and the packer fork on this unit were out of time. Broke all chains apart and retimed it all and presto. finished that field the next day. Was baling behind 30ft combine head. All it could do to stuff it in. still have unit and you just have to feed it different than the JD I always have. Sure wish I had kept it also. Looking for a 348 JD unit now. It sure seem to me like the auger feed always keeps the crop down and more uniform. It does have little trouble thou in slick straw,is its full limit hold back. When you run accumulator setup you wil find out which baler can do what with the crop. Since owning the red unit I have lentghtned the chamber and modified couple wedges and boy what difeerence now. Basicall looks like green unit inside now. Also have found out that some high capactiy baler s don't make the bales like some of the slower running units. Had two 327JD units and boy they could sure make nice bales no matter what. Were slower units but sure wish had them back. Large square units have been repairing some for dealer inshop butill I get market they just don't work for me. Small square still works best for me in selling market. Weights I don't want anyway,just want nice firm soldi bale and with grapple setup you have to have anyway. Eye appeal and honesty sells hay,good or BAd!!! I have looked at the smal centerline units but we tried and couldn't get the tractor over the straw on rye stubble from direct behind combine. Made h#ll piles all time around the drawbar area gave up that day. need e poly skid sheield if do it again.

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Seth_ia

06-05-2006 19:56:45

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Re: Restoring 14 T Baler Questions in reply to RickL, 06-03-2006 05:55:29

Saw a real nice Deere baler sell last winter on a consignment sale. I think it was a 348, but not for sure. It sold for $9000.

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RickL

06-06-2006 05:45:10

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Re: Restoring 14 T Baler Questions in reply to Seth_ia, 06-05-2006 19:56:45

Yea they seem to really,hold their value,thats why when I came across this new red unit thought I give it a try as got it cheap. Still using it today but it is definitely not same as the deeres I was used to.

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Robert w/ 39b 14t

06-01-2006 23:13:54

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Re: Restoring 14 T Baler Questions in reply to Seth_ia, 06-01-2006 19:44:59

Thanks everyone for the advice. Great forum.
My real interest is in restoring and showing old equipment. The spoked 39B I found in a neighbors field drug it home for free, tore it apart and rebuilt it. I got two no. 5 mowers in a budget busting package deal for $100 and restored one back to near original. The 14T baler was at the top of a ravine dirt cheap and I will have that torn down soon and built back up. I am a mechanic at heart and love to work on and show the older equipment in my spare time.
This baler was clearly not used much I think the previous owner spent most of his time beating the motor with a wrench rather than wearing out the baler. I am not looking to be baling in any serious way punching out tons of hay. I will leave that to the real pros like Dave in Wyoming wow!! what a setup.
But it would not be a bad thing if my wife (shes a great gal) sees me struggling with my 39B to make a few bales for her horse and her oposition to my proposal for a newer 35 hp compact melts away. Sure the B is underpowered, I know that, but she doesn't and I am hoping to eventually get a newer tractor out of this.
The engine is more than I want to tackle right now, but will think about setting it aside as a future project if it will up the parade / show appeal.
The holes in the bale chamber bottom can clearly be fixed.
I have ridden the wagon on the back end of these balers for many summers growing up in Montana and they punch the bales out just fine. At the time I was not paying much attention to the finer points of baler operation I am no expert but know enough to be dangerous.
The knotters look to be in good shape nothing I can't tear down, cleanup and fix. I have cycled it through checked the timing it looks right. Thanks for the answers on the PTO clutch it probably serves as both a slip and an overrunner. I had not thought about the overunning part thanks. Now all I have to do is find a PTO clutch and get to work. Thanks again.

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Randy as in Randy-IA

06-01-2006 19:03:21

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Re: Restoring 14 T Baler Questions in reply to Robert w/ 39B 14T, 05-31-2006 22:37:24

Hi Robert , I really hate to disagree with Leroy because he has a wealth of experience that I don't but the front unit on the 14t that I have is indeed a overrunning clutch but it is also a slip clutch . It's in the parts book on page 38 . I slipped mine yesterday a couple times starting the M off with a large charge on the feeder forks . I had to bump it a couple times to get the knives to cut it to get started moving . I saw the clutch slip , hoping I wouldn't shear a bolt . My 14 has slip clutchs on everything but the lift link for the needles . They should be easy to find but I'd take everyones suggestion's about the engine . I don't know a thing about your tractor but if it only has 20 hp I'd question it's ability to do the job , my Farmall M made me wonder a little the other day when I ran to much into it . The M just didn't move slow enough in 1st gear for the size windrows I had . I made my windrows big expecting to bale with my 1755D oliver ( about 90 hp now ) but I broke the pto stub shaft bearing and had to use the m . I can walk ( slowly ) faster than the 1755 will move in 1st - low . It makes a good baler tractor in my opinion but this is only my 4th cutting all told . Anyway it seems that a engine baler is more or less unique and should be restored . I've never even seen one . Good luck ! ...Randy

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Leroy

06-02-2006 16:41:12

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Re: Restoring 14 T Baler Questions in reply to Randy as in Randy-IA, 06-01-2006 19:03:21

I have never used a 14T and was just going with what I have at home here setting in the yard and what I previously had. I currently have 2 JD 116W balers called the sidewinder (1 early version 46-50? and 1 late version 50?-56)[ the 14T was brought out as a 55 model and Deere's first twine baler] and A new Holland 66 and a S66 and none of them as well as the IHC 46 that I used to have that If they have a slip clutch I have yet to find it. so that is what I was going by. If you know it does indeed have the slip clutch then good. Also had a NW 66 with the engine and it had no slip clutch and the starting problems were usualy due to the fuel pump getting a diafram leak that was small enough you could not see it, always carried a extra fuel pump and a fuel pump kit in baler tool box. I know these I have would have overloaded the 46 JD B that I used to have and that is the same engine as in the 39 JD B

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Eric Rylander

06-01-2006 18:17:13

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Re: Restoring 14 T Baler Questions in reply to Robert w/ 39B 14T, 05-31-2006 22:37:24

Oh come on guys. This guy just wants to make it workable, and is not planning to do any serious baling. I baled a lot with a MM Rtu and an Allis 303, as well as 1941 and 1947 model b's, for the little baling he will do for one horse on an acre or two it will do just fine!

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old

06-01-2006 08:29:15

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Re: Restoring 14 T Baler Questions in reply to Robert w/ 39B 14T, 05-31-2006 22:37:24

I don't think that B will even begian to turn that baler over and then move its self forward. You need around a 35HP tractor for a baler and that B comes at only about 20HP. That B does make a good rake tractor but not a baler tractor with out the engine sitting on the baler.

Hobby farm

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1031D

06-01-2006 06:29:12

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Re: Restoring 14 T Baler Questions in reply to Robert w/ 39B 14T, 05-31-2006 22:37:24

I have a 14T with a Wisconsin TFD engine on it, and I wouldn't trade it for a PTO baler. If you swap a PTO setup on it, there is about 16" difference in the drawbars also. I had a PTO 14T, and we have a B, A, G, and a bunch of farmalls, CASE, and MM. The B wasn't worth a hoot on that baler unles you wanted to make one bale every half hour. I just put up 500+ bales on sunday with mine, and it runs like a clock. The motor you took off was only 17.5 hp. Your tractor is lucky to be 20 downhill on a good day and it now has to run the baler and pull it and the wagon. Also, I don't like to use my 2 cylinder deeres for PTO or belt work because the motors are not smooth pulses and it is too easy to break shear pins.

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TomTX

06-01-2006 05:42:18

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Re: Restoring 14 T Baler Questions in reply to Robert w/ 39B 14T, 05-31-2006 22:37:24

Rebuild or replace the engine. If you jerry rig it with a PTO shaft your restoration will have no value, your tractor will not have enough power, so you will lose double. Tom

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Leroy

06-01-2006 04:02:47

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Re: Restoring 14 T Baler Questions in reply to Robert w/ 39B 14T, 05-31-2006 22:37:24

That is not a slip clutch but an overrunning clutch to let you stop but you will not have to worry about that as that tractor does not have enough power to get you started so that you will have to stop. Put that engine back on and then you will be able to get buy and that is why it was made with that engine is because of tractors like yours that do not have enough power to move and run the baler with anything in the bale chamber, think things thru before you do something stupid like getting rid of that engine.

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steve450

06-01-2006 03:28:49

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Re: Restoring 14 T Baler Questions in reply to Robert w/ 39B 14T, 05-31-2006 22:37:24

I have a PTO shaft. Send me an email.

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Robert w/ 39B 14T

06-01-2006 23:32:49

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Re: Restoring 14 T Baler Questions in reply to steve450, 06-01-2006 03:28:49

Thanks, I sent you an e-mail with more info. Give me a call and we can work out a deal or I can call you.

Thanks again.

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Nebraska Cowman

06-01-2006 02:57:55

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Re: Restoring 14 T Baler Questions in reply to Robert w/ 39B 14T, 05-31-2006 22:37:24

Oh jerky jerky. Hate to rain on your parade but I wouldn't even consider running a PTO baler with a B. For one horse I'd get a pichfork and put the hay in the barn loose. You will have a lot more fun.

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TimS

05-31-2006 23:13:24

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Re: Restoring 14 T Baler Questions in reply to Robert w/ 39B 14T, 05-31-2006 22:37:24

Try an implement scrap yard for the pto and clip clutch, also one from a 24T, 214T, or 224T might work as well.....

Regarding the rust holes, I would cut it back to good metal and weld in identical thickness, it will be good as new. I will have to do that sooner or later on my 14T, especially the twine box.

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