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Implement Alley Discussion Forum

My hay is too good...per a horse person

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Joe in IN

05-22-2006 18:38:05




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About 90% alfalfa. 10% timothy. This lady goes through 8 bales a day so I was hoping to be her main supplier. She bought several wagon loads last year. Just touched base with her and she said my hay was too good for her horses. They are 'warmblood' something or others... All look like nags to me but supposed to be a high dollar hay burners...

Anyway... probably a little late this year but is fall or early spring the best time to drill some grass in. Guess I need to thin my mix a little. Too much octane in my hay...

Didn't Think I would here that from a horse person... But I appreciated the compliment. Guess I am doing something right, not bad for a 2 years experience.

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LE Smith

05-23-2006 10:08:25




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 Re: My hay is too good...per a horse person in reply to Joe in IN, 05-22-2006 18:38:05  
We have been in the hay business for 27 some odd years now, with almost 25 years of feeding horses and dealing with horse owners. You need to know your customer base, wether or not you want to support that market segment and then change or not change accordingly. You can grow the best alfalfa hay in the county but if your market does not want it, well, it means nothing then... Good luck.



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Billy NY

05-23-2006 07:16:54




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 Re: My hay is too good...per a horse person in reply to Joe in IN, 05-22-2006 18:38:05  
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Next generation of hayburner, he's one week old here.

I suppose it can almost be comical, when it comes to hay selection and variety's offered, in regards to the equine world. The difference in preferences certainly makes it interesting for someone supplying hay. I've observed this phenomenon, since I was a kid.

At our place we try to keep it simple and work with what we can get. The best quality we consider to be the early or later cuttings, less stalky, more leafy (more blades of grass) green and dry, not baled tight as a brick, but not falling out of the twine. The aroma of hay like this speaks for itself. While there seems to be plenty of well kept fields that can produce hay like this, the weather around here always makes it difficult to get it in when the time is right.

Ideally if we were baling it ( which we did for years) it would seem best to to take multiple cuttings, instead of what many used to do and seemed to be the norm of the 1 cutting of the tall stalky, long topped out, starting to tan hay grasses in July. I have one small field next to my house, that I've kept mowed, but have not baled, loaded with orchard grass, it's getting a bit stalky, just topped out, but still has another foot or so to grow, it would seem that this would make some good hay if cut and baled right now, that is if it would stop raining and my neighbor would do it. Little small, but seems like good stuff not to let it go to waste when I use the brush hog on it.

Some of the best you can find locally is comprised of whatever the typical hay grasses are and timothy, but in a well kept/managed field. I'd have to go to the co-op site, forget the grass names. West of here, there are some big hay suppliers, their fields look really nice. When I see a lot of weeds and garbage in the bales, I know that the fields are not taken care of, and we had a guy who thought that was good hay. I'm sure if it were to be analyzed it would speak for itself, he also baled them real tight and heavy, could care less about the moisture, so mold/dust was a real problem, you really had to check for that everytime you opened a bale, we had 2-3 mild cases of colic in that time period we were dealing with him and none since.

Because good hay can be hard to find, we do get stuck with a lot of undesirable hay, so you try to work with it as best can be done, MOLD and dust is the worst problem, and concern, but nutrition is also high on the list. The horses pick through bad hay and leave the rest, so they can get thin, you have to feed a lot more of it, and also chokes up the bedding/manure, taking longer to clean a stall and loads up the manure (which I compost and sell) with carbon, it takes longer to break down, the weed seed has to be cooked so it is dead. If you look at every aspect of poor quality hay, it does add up in real costs when it comes to horses, especially if your dealing with more than a dozen.

I think the best thing you can do is to work with your supplier, let them know what your preference is, use samples, work something out, and hope the weather cooperates. We deal with a lot of different suppliers, my farmer neighbor still bales, and plants one field at the place where I live. I started buying hay from him last year, as I became more involved with the other place where the horses are and did not like the hay I saw. The hay he put up last year was the best, first cut in June, so it was a little stalky, green broad blades of grass, fair amount of timothty mixed in, and he got quite a bit in without being rained on, even the one section that did get wet, he turned it once, it was still better than the weedy brick like bales they were getting, ( about 3000 bales worth). He only charged us $2.75-$3.00 for 200 bales delivered 30 miles away, whereas the feed supplier where we buy our grain, next to the famous Saratoga track would have gotten $8.00/bale for their best, and the weedy brick bales I had to load up and unload for $3.00/ bale. Most other is delivered around $3.00-$4.00 per bale. We buy the best that can be afforded, don't recall anyone on our end ever haggling a supplier, we used to bale and know how it goes.
I can't thank my neighbor enough for the deal he gave us. The horses did not leave much if any in the stall, they really enjoyed this kind of hay.

One of his 20 acre fields has some alfalfa mixed in, just the right amount it seems, was all alfalfa at one time, so we would seperate those bales and feed accordingly.

The best thing we could do is let the suppliers know what we like and let them do there best to get it in. If we had the storage space, we would stock up on the best we can find and as much as we can afford at the time. When the horses are getting thin at the onset of winter and the hay is poor quality, it just makes things more difficult, but sometimes it has to do, which I don't like, it would be great to stock up ahead of time.

I'd have to ask, but I don't see a lot of alfalfa being fed, I know you have to be careful with feeding it, because it is so rich. The bales we got with partial amounts of alfalfa in it were ok to feed, and would be great during the winter, but 100% I think you need to regulate carefully. For years we kept one field with alfalfa, a low lying bottom field, always moist, was 5 acres, it grew great, we used to get up to 500 bales per cutting if I remember what I read on the counter, and that used to get fed, can't recall how much, but it went in our barn and we used it every year.


It might be a good idea to see what people are looking for, use samples, and see if you can produce it, both parties have to be reasonable for this to work, but if you can grow something that makes good hay, have a return customer for it every year, and if the weather / equipment cooperates, and you can get a fair price for it, it ought to work somehow. There are people around here who kind of partner on this, but then you also have people who buy the best from Colorado and ship to Florida in the winter when all the horses are there, money is no concern here though !

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Allan In NE

05-23-2006 14:34:24




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 Re: My hay is too good...per a horse person in reply to Billy NY, 05-23-2006 07:16:54  
Hey Billy,

Not tryin' to be a smart A$$ 'er anything, but I hope you have a tether on that mare and not letting her run with the halter on?

It's a blue day the morning ya come out and see 'em hangin' dead from a fence post.

Allan



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Billy NY

05-24-2006 01:06:38




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 Re: My hay is too good...per a horse person in reply to Allan In NE, 05-23-2006 14:34:24  
Good call Allan, and you are absolutely correct, but actually, we had just got back from Cornell with the mare and colt which is about 150 miles away, just unloaded them, so we let them stretch, run and roll a bit after the trip, while we observed, then it was time to head to the big double stall set up for them. Photo was taken 4-14-06.

Halters are always removed when in the stall and or during turn out, I don't call the shots up there, but I do keep an eye out, as I'm sure you know already they can do the darnedest things, and if it can happen it will, I've seen them impaled on fence posts, rear over backwards while loading, run right through fences and gates. I think they lost a few foals over the past few years, the last one due to a dope of a vet, who made a mistake, never fails, they can even get a leg caught in a loose halter. We are fortunate this colt is doing so well.

I just got back from there, was turning wrenches until 2:00 a.m., just about wheeled here.

Now I'm curious as to how your rake dilemma ended, we used to have a 3pt M-F p.t.o. driven, same configuration as the green one, think it may have also had a belt on it, worked great for years, right up until the hay equipment was sold.

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Joe(TX)

05-23-2006 05:59:25




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 Re: My hay is too good...per a horse person in reply to Joe in IN, 05-22-2006 18:38:05  
Apparantly the person is not smart enough to also buy grass hay and ration their animals. There is no such thing as too good when it comes to hay. I very seldom feed alfalfa to my horses.



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Greenfield

05-23-2006 05:56:50




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 Re: My hay is too good...per a horse person in reply to Joe in IN, 05-22-2006 18:38:05  
Fatten up those horses up with Alfalfa, ALPO will thank you.



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hayray

05-23-2006 04:29:44




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 Re: My hay is too good...per a horse person in reply to Joe in IN, 05-22-2006 18:38:05  
Bad idea to ruin your alfalfa field by drilling in more grass, it will come on its' own each year as the alfalfa thins out, drilling grass will just weaken your alfalfa stand, you can't change just because of one customer. YOu should have a rotation of hay types so that you always have a alfalfa stand played out with the right amount of grass in it. There are always people that will buy the alfalfa for a premium price and think of the extra tonnage a good stand yields compared to a mixed stand. The horse people want a good amount of grass in it to mix because the horses eat all day long, unlike cows that average 8 hours a day, horses will start chewing on the wood if they don't have fiber to eat about 16 hours a day, they get too fat on pure alfalfa. But there will always be a good market for that good alfalfa.

Ray

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RickL

05-23-2006 03:38:17




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 Re: My hay is too good...per a horse person in reply to Joe in IN, 05-22-2006 18:38:05  
Thats just dealing with the public in regards to horses... NO TWO WILL WANT SAME. If you are trrying to sell hay you have to have several diufferent types period. Most of my straight alfalf goe to horses now last couple years was thegrassy stuff. You never now but the customer is always right so just go with it and have several types. Dairies can be hard to deal with also seems like sometimes. Her is the general publis rule thou that is always said. I WANT VERY NICE HAY CHEAP. My sign reads Ihave both usually. I have nice hay and I have cheap hay but Idon't have nice hay cheap.

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mike j

05-22-2006 22:17:54




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 Re: My hay is too good...per a horse person in reply to Joe in IN, 05-22-2006 18:38:05  
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I know i wont feed alfalfa or anything else high protien unless it is real cold or the horse is working hard it can cause kidney damage and other problems . I feed straight grass hay and my horses thrive on it . i see all kinds of people who supposedly know about horses and the poor horse stands in a stall and gets nothing but alfalfa . all there doing is killing there high dollar status symbol. mike j

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hayray

05-23-2006 04:35:34




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 Re: My hay is too good...per a horse person in reply to mike j, 05-22-2006 22:17:54  
Mike I know what you are saying because I have heard that forever but it is completley un-true. YOu are not going to damage a horses kidneys by feeding alfalfa unless the horse is real old and has failing kidneys. A matter of fact is that as many horses get real old it is the alfalfa hay that will only keep weight on them.

Ray



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mike j

05-22-2006 22:21:35




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 try pic again in reply to mike j, 05-22-2006 22:17:54  
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try the pic again



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Jerry/MT

05-22-2006 21:17:50




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 Re: My hay is too good...per a horse person in reply to Joe in IN, 05-22-2006 18:38:05  
Try to find a dairy nearby. They'll probably take all your hay.



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dan67

05-22-2006 20:28:17




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 Re: My hay is too good...per a horse person in reply to Joe in IN, 05-22-2006 18:38:05  
Alfalfa is to hot for my horse or any horses around here, alittle in grass is o.k. and we do load heaver in the cold winter to help with energy(staying warm) winters many days below zero.



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AB

05-22-2006 19:51:02




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 Re: My hay is too good...per a horse person in reply to Joe in IN, 05-22-2006 18:38:05  
Find another buyer. I sell 100% alfalfa to lot's of horse owners. That's what the majority want here in SW Indiana.



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Kelly campbell

05-22-2006 19:45:56




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 Re: My hay is too good...per a horse person in reply to Joe in IN, 05-22-2006 18:38:05  
Som horses do not do well with Alfala hay, its to rich for them and makes for some pretty nasy #2 waste....or at least it does with my horses. I have to be careful do watch how much alfala they recieve to be sure that the nasty, runny, well you know what.... doesn't happen. I will admit this though, its great to give them on a really cold wet winter day here. I've never seen any thing that can make steam roll of of a horses back like Alfala hay does...

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hayray

05-23-2006 04:38:55




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 Re: My hay is too good...per a horse person in reply to Kelly campbell, 05-22-2006 19:45:56  
I do just what you do, I mix the types of hay as I see fit and have no problems at all. The more hay and the less feed the better and less digestive problems you have.

Ray



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Larry NE IL

05-22-2006 19:43:47




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 Re: My hay is too good...per a horse person in reply to Joe in IN, 05-22-2006 18:38:05  
Joe, I feed my horses a high mixture of alfalfa and timothy. Each year when I fertilize my alfalfa field, I have the FS guys mix in a couple pounds of timothy. I'm hoping that when the alfalfa is near done the timothy will have taken over. Larry NE IL



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