Punchie it's time to make peace

Let me clarify, I should have used tons as we used 45 lb. bales roughly 100 ton, 60 lb. bales would be 3,375 bales. Having said this I will agree that in order to do this a good many factors have to be close to perfect, and further to do this with a bale thrower and manual storage. The baler must have very careful maintainence and adjustment daily. The fields must be large (20 acres min.) preferably perfect rectangles. The soil surface must be smooth. The fields must be in very close proximity to the storage. (less than 5 min with tractor and wagon load of hay) The crop must be extreemly heavy on the ground, 4-5 ton per acre min. In Atlantic Canada we quite regularly baled 250 - 45 lb. bales of bud stage alfalfa - grass mix per acre, thus I am only talking about baling 20 to 25 acres per day.

Last but most importantly one must have a lot of well organized and commited labour. One could not do this today. Even if he could find the labor, they would not be in shape to do the work involved. When I entered Agricultural College in the fall of 1960, not a big college, less than 200 students, but we did have soccer, basketball and hockey teams that played in what they called Truro and district league. The teams we played against were largely from town and a teachers college. Clearly those young farm boys coming to town were all over the townies as we called them. We had a 6'6" basketball player that had picked potatoes directly into barrels. During that year we got swept into the college in thing of the day, pushing a hospital bed, with relay teams some 100 miles or so. This swept eastern North America. Many of these schools had 5,000 to 10,000 students and their hospital bed only weighed 150 lbs.

Our bed was equiped with sidedelivery rake tires, two solid and two casters. A farmer owned meat processing plant gave us some backing and we loaded our bed with a 200 lb. live porker giving a total weight of close to 550 lbs with bed, crate and hog. We averaged over 10 mph on our 60 mile journey (some of that on black ice I might add) to the packing plant. They loaded us up with a display of finished pork products and we began our journey back still in excess of 450 lbs. Total trip average was over 9 mph. For that we claimed being World Champion Bed Pushers. No other college ever exceeded 6-7 mph. That my friend will give some idea what kind of shape young farm boys of the 60s were in.

Yes I know every one will start yelling child and youth labor and your going to crap all over me for being a slave driver. However, I declare these 60s farm boys now in their early 60s are in better physical than most folks. I'm 63 and just two months ago I hand jacked 48,000 lbs into a 53' trailer in 13 min., and did it all by myself. (3,000 lb. skids) Now I did have that trailer so I was moving the skids slightly down grade. I do have witnesses, and can tell you the next trailer that pulled in for loading, two young lads in their late 20s took over 1 hour to do what I did in 13 min.

There is no question in my mind about the capacity of a NH S-69 baler, dropping bales on the ground with a 35 hp tractor up front the baler is capable of 150 ton in an 8 to 10 hour day of baling. From there one just has to decide how that production is going to be handled.

And by the way I knew exactly how much hay I was mowing, you can't bale it until it's mowed.

As I ask what kind of farm manager would put that much hay down at once knowing it would only be a slim chance of getting it up timely?

What about answering with your know it all why did you quit farming?

Why would you want to make 45 lb bales?

Now I'll tell you something the S-69 had going for it that most later NH machines did not have. NH had some of the best manual writers anywhere during the 50s and 60s. I have never seen a manual as well written as the S-69 and 460 haybine manuals were. The trouble shooting section was second to none.

By 1970 that was a thing of the past. I have never seen a NH 570 manual, but most of the later manuals I've seen from NH were very poorly written. In fact some of the poorest manuals I've ever seen. Did you ever think that 570 may not be adjusted very well?

John In Iowa

John In Iowa

So at 888.9 45lb bales an hr. thats 14.8 bales a minute I guess. I haven't followed all these threads has someone acutally claimed that many bales an hr??

How many strokes a minute is this baler doing??
The new ones are about 93 my old 278's are rated at 105 but we only run them at 93 spm. I'm thinking this old NH69 is more like 80 SPM (someone have the specs).

So @ 80 strokes per minute that would mean about 5.4 strokes per bale to make the 15.8 bales a minute. So if these are smaller like 30" bales with 5.4 flakes per bale they gonna have to be pretty thick!

I believe 4000 bales in day with one baler (NH 278) as we've done it once that I can think of. But it was a looooo ng day in perfect conditons. Unlike our typical baling days which don't start till late afternoon. Is this baler bigger than lets say a NH273??? Cause those are a small compared to a newer baler.

John In Iowa

I do know you use stack wagons and very likely your doing 42" bales weighing close to 60 lbs. Roughly 3,400 of your bales will equal 4,500 of my 45 lb. Both in the 100 ton range and I'll bet you have done it. Yes that old S-69 baler was quite new when we did those 4,500 days.

I never said we averaged this, but rather we have done it when weather and other factors demanded it, just one of the facts of farming. My dad and I considered we had done quite a good days work and always considered 3,000 to 3,500 of those 45 lb., roughly 75 ton to be a good avereage. If we dropped below 2,000, we considered it to be poor day. In 1968 I bought a forage harvester and went with haylage. No question the S-69 had seen better days and the labor situation was reaching a point, one could no longer find them. Even if one did find them, they weren't in shape for a day in the hayfield. From then until 1975 I probably didn't bale more than 8,000 bale per year. In 1975 I bought an additional 250 acres and about half of that had to go into hay. The old S-69 went down the road, replaced by a round baler. These changes were driven by a shortage of labor, nothing more.

I've always said until we saw stack wagons, round balers, forage harvesters and big square balers, haying was more about manpower than horsepower. My very first job in the hayfield was driving the W4 pulling wagon and loose hayloader. Hired men were complaining my 72 year old grandfather was too vicious on the clutch. I was 6, dad said you've got a job as long as those guys on the load don't complain. When dad bought the IH 45 baler he was addamit, once hay left the ground it should never touch it again. He drove the tractor, put two of us on the wagon. Not to bad the old 45 didn't have the capacity plus one of us spent most of our time on the twine box tieing all the bales the knotters missed. When the NH dealer dropped off that S-69 demo, my brothers and I watched dad go down the field and decided right there dad had to be talked into a bale thrower. I've always said this progression from pitch fork, to hayloader, to 45 baler, to S-69 with thrower, never saved any sore mussels, just enabled one to do more.

Another generation at the rate society is going, and every one over 50 will need wheel chairs.

It gives us all something to talk about on a cold winter's morn. Right?

Hugh, I really think you are just remembering this wrong. Are you sure you aren't taking your total year�s production on that 25 acres and tryin' to squeeze it all into just one cutting?

In 1960, a 5-ton yield would have been absolutely mind-blowin' phenomenal, but I'll give it to you. But, I really doubt if you did it all in one cutting and in one day.

Even figuring a rather high 38% first cutting yield on a 5-ton crop puts you at something like 85 bales an acre. So, on a very, very long 25-acre day, you �might� have put up roughly 2100 45 lb bales with that 38-horse tractor.

You�re trying to say that you put up 5.6 ton per cutting. Your yearly production was 17 ton per acre or better?

Nope, can�t buy that one, �cause I�ve been on the business end of a Holstein and a pitchfork a time or two myself and can tell you that is just plain silly.

Just vistin� over the coffee,

Allan

Many many times I've seen the 300 in 2nd gear high TA and the S-69 tieing a 36" bale every 3rd stroke of plunger and always every 4th stroke. What you are not realizing here, there are very wide variety of conditions across this continant. You just do the math on that, it's over 900 bales per hour. Now I'm not saying you'll average 900 but 500 is a snap.

Who does the article say found the deer? The lady that sent me the picture said that it was supposedly found by the high school principal.

Trouble is, she's from Stanley and couldn't place the lad nor find him in the phone book either. :>)

All I know is, that if I can raise 1 ton of alfalfa per acre on this old worn out farm next season, I'll be jumpin' fer joy and consider myself a total success! :>)

Allan

Allan

Oh, no doubt about that and I'm certain that there are spots that absolutely grow hay like crazy.

But when the national average for alfalfa production at this late date is still only 3.3 tons per acre over 23 million acres, those "hot shot" fields are few and far between.

I've seen the now commonplace 6 and 7 ton alfalfa grown under circles and it's really hard for this old "desert rat" to imagine anything heavier. What do ya do? Stack the darned bales on top of one another as ya bale so you can still see the ground? :>)

Not doubtin' anyones word, just tryin' to inject a little bit of wonderment into the conversation.

Yields are like fish stories, they always tend to grow with time. When I was young, I could whip any lad in the county. It's my story, therefore, I'll tell it the way I want. :>)

Allan

First let me say I'm sorry for up setting You !!

Next would like to say and have always thought we are compairing Apples and Oranges. West is dry, at some times of the year. Humidity is are limity facter here in the east. If I plant a Aflafla Timothy mix field and feed it to get about 3 tons first cutting it is too thick to dry right, to sell for horse hay here. Just too picky and they don't know hay. If the bales are much over 40 lbs. They think they are moldy, and they maybe right. SO I average right around 110-115 bales to acre, 35-40lbs./bales. Second cut is 80 bales/acre aver. 3rd cut 60-70 bales/acre , never do much 4th and by than the deer are eating it. IF we get it is late in oct and harder to make. 50-60 bales/acre. You can add about 20 % to these numbers if you feed it more.

(( I like wild life, and the they way things are going in PA are deer herd is in trouble and the PA Game Commision cares less. SO For now most of my help come from deer hunters so it is a give and take. I feed a few deer and get help, we do have a few acres of food plots on some sour ground to help off set this.))

Average big field here is 5 acres, some maybe bigger some are smaller on a 5% - 10% grade. Get out in to Oh or up north 30 miles and you can have as large as you would like, 20, 30, 50 acres maybe larger, alot more flat ground.

We normaly don't get humidty below 80 % aver. in the summer. Our drying time is from 10:00 -12:00 AM to 5:00 -7:00 PM , It takes me with the Haybine set to crimp not smash , I see allot of smashed hay. Hard on the equipment and like feeding it throw a ringer. Takes about 10-12 hours for the hay to dry at some 60-80 humidity. that is tedded and turned once maybe twice, not just raked has to be turned. If we get a dry spell maybe 8 hours. Then theres the aflafla then it too dry and you loose the leaves and with a heavy dew too wet to bale . So you have an about a 1 - 2 hour window in the morning and late in the day. I bale mostly grass for this reason , if I make it right I average 80- 120 somettimes 140 a ton for grass 2nd and 3rd cut, yes I have seen 4.00 for pure grass bales 50-60 Lbs. , but I average 2.00 off field and 3.25 winter for 40lbs. . Average is 25-40 bales to acre and I cut every 25-35 days, boy last year was not good at all for our later cuttings.

People here are not dump they know they can feed oats and grains to off set high hay prices so that keeps the prices down too. Oats 2.00-2.75, corn 5.00-6.50 hundred. SO why pay much more than 3.00 bale for hay.

Weekly hay auctions here handle allot of hay Roger's 5000 per week, New Willington 50-75, maybe 100 loads 2500 - 5000 bales. So there are alot of place to go weekly and get hay, there are more but those are the one I go to 25-30 miles away. That is another reason hay is at it prices around here. Yes AS you can see I get around , and know alot of people . Sleep in Chester WV , farm in Back of Beaver, work in Beaver. On a Livestock Com., on the board for Brighton twp. History Soc. and etc. I like to talk to people and love to talk to old timers.

I would say the average farm around here does some 3000-5000 bales a year. He and he wife also work on the side or should I say farm on the side. Most of the younger dairy man I know have a wife working for health insurance and he works the farm. Aver is around 50 head milking , but that is not common here the closest dairy to the farm is now 10 miles away, 2 years ago 2 miles . 10 years ago with in 10 miles, there were 7-10. The dairy people do far more than than 3000-5000, but this is in silo , round raped bales etc. By the way this Die hard is on of the last in our twp. there are about 5 left farmers. We are a dieing breed here in the east. And as many as I see try it that about how many stop, you can not go by the book here it will get you every time!! They go and buy the best used equipment and try to do too much and have not got the customers and try to sale it at auction and loss there shirts after a year or two. I love the farming life stle. ANd like to talk the older the wiser. That is Why I stop in here during the winter months. Not that they are all old but look around , most are older and we are not getting the younger people in to farming, first there just is not the money there!! And for this reason and this reason only I posted what I did. There no doubt that haying is diffent in diffent parts. I try or learn an other way to skin that cat every year, do it better or woose. But I feel like you were leading people to think that it is a normal day of haying to make 3500 bales. For the average farmer or hobby farmer you would call him, 1000 bales is more than he should maybe should try for one day. That is why I got into this, I see this as a great place to learn and can see some young person looking at these number and say Hey I can make some money and maybe a living, hey they did it. They look in the books and see 7, 8 9 tons of hay to acre and see that they can have some 50 acres of hay and at 40 lbs. to the bales 2.00 a bale hey I can make 700.00 per acre on the low side , I can make it, Well I'm here to tell you God Bless!! because it doesn't work that way that often. You have to live and learn, I do it every day or try to.

God Bless !! Have A Great DAy !!

Theodore Moldovan Jr.

Our governments, both US and Canada are interfering with agriculture to a point it will all be owned by multinational corperations in another generation. The family farm, once the back bone of North American efficiency will be gone forever. These corperate farms survive only on government hand outs. That one, my friend is upsetting.

steveormary